Interpretation by humans is the only way a text is ever understood. God knew this when choosing the written word for his purpose.

That's correct. There were many inspired authors, using a range of styles.

Quite plausible. Since that culture knew nothing of dinosaurs, we should not be surprised to find no references to them.

Not all the Biblical authors were semi-literate. Paul, for one, was a Pharisee. He was also raised in Jerusalem (very cosmopolitan for its time) and a student of a prestigious member of the Sanhedrin.

You're free to assume anything, of course. In terms of what anyone actually set down in the Bible, I don't see even a rough estimate of the earth's age given.

Even if the entire Bible was intended as metaphor, which it is not, your dichotomy would still not follow. The metaphoric language used by that culture was perfectly capable of distinguishing claims of truth versus mere storytelling.

Ah yes, the "logical" theism thread in which you refused to clarify basic details of your OP, then claimed to know my beliefs better than I do, and stopped responding to me.

A real tour de force!

And did he also choose to have his words edited, re-edited and changed throughout the first two centuries, were the editorial staff of the canonical gospels also divinely inspired?

Who can't seem to get there story straight. Maybe god was a little groggy when he recanted the resurrection to Matthew, mark, Luke, and john. Who all tell different stories. The synoptic problem is just that, a serious problem. It is quite obvious the authors of the gospels (who were most likely not john, mark, luke and matthew) all stole from one another, quite blatantly.

No need for god to mention or tell stories of animals past? No need to mention that humans all share a common ancestry with every living thing? That heavy metals are forged in the crucibles of stars? That there is 300 sextillion other solar systems besides ours? Hundreds of billions of galaxy's? The actual number of pi? Just because the human beings did not have scientific literacy, does not mean that god, who created everything, should not be describing his creation in a little more scientific detail then...."in the beginning...."

Is Genesis meant to be taken literally?

Maybe if you guys keep repeating this fairy tale, it might come true?

You are here:

Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Primates
Family: Hominidae
Tribe: Hominini
Genus: H0m0
Species: H. sapiens

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hominina

Actually, the Bible clearly does talk about dinosaurs. Although we alter the spelling of behemoth and Leviathan slightly, we still use those same words in bibles today. However, tanniyn is always translated into another word when we write it in English. Tanniyn occurs 28 times in the Bible and is normally translated “dragon.” It is also translated “serpent,” “sea monster,” “dinosaur,” “great creature,” and “reptile.” Behemoth and Leviathan are relatively specific creatures, perhaps each was a single kind of animal. Tanniyn is a more general term, and it can be thought of as the original version of the word “dinosaur.” The word “dinosaur” was originally coined in 1841, more than three thousand years after the Bible first referred to “Tanniyn.” To make things clearer, we constructed the following table comparing the scientific names with the Biblical names tanniyn, behemoth, and Leviathan.

Behemoth has the following attributes according to Job 40:15-24

It “eats grass like an ox.”
It “moves his tail like a cedar.” (In Hebrew, this literally reads, “he lets hang his tail like a cedar.”)
Its “bones are like beams of bronze,
His ribs like bars of iron.”
“He is the first of the ways of God.”
“He lies under the lotus trees,
In a covert of reeds and marsh.”

Leviathan has the following attributes according to Job chapter 41, Psalm 104:25,26 and Isaiah 27:1. This is only a partial listing—just enough to make the point.

“No one is so fierce that he would dare stir him up.”
“Who can open the doors of his face, with his terrible teeth all around?”
“His rows of scales are his pride, shut up tightly as with a seal; one is so near another that no air can come between them; they are joined one to another, they stick together and cannot be parted.”
“His sneezings flash forth light, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning. Out of his mouth go burning lights; sparks of fire shoot out. Smoke goes out of his nostrils, as from a boiling pot and burning rushes. His breath kindles coals, and a flame goes out of his mouth.”
“Though the sword reaches him, it cannot avail; nor does spear, dart, or javelin. He regards iron as straw, and bronze as rotten wood. The arrow cannot make him flee; slingstones become like stubble to him. Darts are regarded as straw; he laughs at the threat of javelins.”
“On earth there is nothing like him, which is made without fear.”
Leviathan “played” in the “great and wide sea” (a paraphrase of Psalm 104 verses 25 and 26—get the exact sense by reading them yourself).
Leviathan is a “reptile [a] that is in the sea.” (Isaiah 27:1)

[a] Note: The word translated “reptile” here is the Hebrew word tanniyn. This shows that “Leviathan” was also a “tanniyn” (dragon).

Source: http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/dinos.shtml

I had a similar childhood. A little less involved in Church than you were, but similarly pushed into church. I was forced through confirmation, then didn't come back for 4-5 years.

While I was living in Seattle with a few guys i worked at the casino with, one of them challenged my Agnostic/Atheist beliefs(or lack there of). Long story short, he convinced me to give faith another try. Not necessarily Christianity, but that was my childhood faith, so it was the first I set out to explore(and disprove).

The more I learned, the less I could write off about Jesus and the Bible. By God's grace I stumbled into Mars Hill Church. The church, Pastor Mark Driscoll in particular, teaches the Bible more genuinely, transparently, and truthfully than anyone or any church I've ever been to. I realized that the Jesus that my previous church was trying to cram down my throat wasn't the right Jesus. It was wrapped in religion, stuffed with ritual, and embalmed in bull*****. Praise God for the scriptures that hold the truth.

RJ, I don't know if that helps or is on topic. I'm sympathetic to what you're going through, and I hope you find truth in Christ. I'll pray for you.

HAHAHAHAHA!!! FASTERING ZIT IS BACK TROLLING AROUND!!!! we are still waiting for you in your other thread from which you have run away cause your ass was owned !

Since I'm actively questioning, any experiences from people who have been through something similar is certainly on topic, and potentially helpful. Thanks for your input.

LOL

That OP was also a kindergarten level reworking of Pascal's wager. It is absolutely incredible and comical that he brought that up as his prized thread.

I believe in a higher power but not the way some organized business wants me to believe. This is why I always tell people I'm agnostic. I believe in a higher power but not in organize religions.

How do you know about that higher power existing?

Believing =/= knowing

I understand, but the knowledge of some concept must come from somewhere... I am asking about that knowledge of a being called god. Where did he get this concept from if not from religions. My point is that , religions have shared with him this concept of an ultimate being and then he borrows it from them , makes his own beliefs about it.

I see your point, but there's really no other place to draw a concept of God outside of religion. i think JonVoid and I share similar beliefs, at least on the surface. I consider myself an Agnostic Diest, in that I believe there is a 'god', but it cannot be 'known'. While I admit my belief is not based upon any proof, I cannot truthfully proclaim myself Atheist. In any case, this is a distiction I make for my own benefit. For all intents and purposes, my thoughts/reasoning align closely with Atheists, and I take no offense if one would choose to label me as such.

FWIW, the transition of my beliefs from Christian to Agnostic Diest has been a somewhat recent change for me. I fully appreciate that my current beliefs may only be a transitional period toward Atheism. At some level, I think I hold on to the belief in a god out of reluctance to dimiss my religious heritage, perhaps holding out hope that irrefutable evidence could be presented which would allow me to resume my faith without feeling like such a fraud.

Got you... I was in the same shoes for a while, but then eventually I asked myself , why do I believe in something I have no idea if it exists or it doesn't and I decided that believing in some concept without a good reason is a waste of time for me( in any other area outside of the concept of god I would be fooling myself to believe in something I have no reason to do so), I left deism and called myself an atheist. Which was very hard for me to do so coming from a place where 95% or so are Catholics who believe that becoming an Atheist is basically saying hello to Satan and joining him in hell. That fear has stayed with me for a while. Now I kind of laugh it off..

It is not just Catholics who use that technique.

It could reasonably be called terrorism. How "loving" is that?

Christians use the carrot and the stick. "Eternal Life" (after you go through the mere formality of dying), the guilt of "Jesus suffered and died for you", and fear of "eternal torment".

As far as I know, atheists don't use those techniques.

But a superstition or chain email would definitely benefit from them.

so this is my first post here after being a reader of many threads / posts over a months time...ive read and enjoyed a few of your other threads Sgt RJ and figured this thread to be a good topic to start off my epic posting activities lol (btw if its not awkward for me to say this, dont let these immature kids convince you that your not cute enough because thats nonsense your plenty cute, just realize these are the same poop sacks who mouth used to "mouth off" in Stars chat and then talk **** on top to the mods..just really stupid pointless behavior, plus i think it matters more about inside beauty which you have in surplus! any surprise i get teh butt secks often? lol) so im 32 RJ and btw was a 92y10p @82nd Abn from 96-00..and i to have spent years thinking about this same subject & i can relate to your question on this subject. Sadly i cant give absolute answers but i think sufficiently instead i have some atleast comforting points of view. 1) as my name here suggests the fact that we are here at all is very lucky (im new so dont know from adding links) and i just want to give you some source material..check out the interview on youtube w father george coyne & richard dawkins, very worth it...also suggest panspermiarigins of life on youtube thats equally valuable...the key concept being the "goldie locks zone" this explains the connection between just enough gravitational pull..energy from the sun, etc etc..This is such an improbable existence!

My quick statement about the existence of god and the "afterlife"...its something we all wish was true because why wouldn't we? but! until or if we ever know for sure we should process it similar to a poker tourny, operate off incomplete information and probability. Simple examples; if you dont live your life like a scumbag then there's only two options..Heaven or the same sensation of pre-life, nothing. You see RJ thats exactly why death doesnt scare me 1) sustainable life is so improbable that i consider it a sort of "freeroll" 2) im a good guy so i either get to experience blissful heaven or peaceful nothingness ie, pre-ife. Another suggested study is also on youtube..Dr. shelly Keagen a philosopher at Yale..i have many "take aways" from him...ill give one now called "chocolate chip cookie" concept, if i have a box of cookies and i give you one...then you want another..then another..then another,etc and after say 5 cookies; if you dont get anymore have i deprived you? Clearly not you've been given 5 so this was positive for you...This represents years of life RJ do you see? Even if i die tonight ive still been incredibly lucky. Luckier still its been life above the "X-Axis" ie, life worth having. Last thing research Bibi Aisha and be reminded how lucky you are to be an American Woman..ok RJ im around if you ever want to talk, i have more to say but this is sufficient for now....Scott

We don't know but unlike religious folks, I don't go around telling others that the big man upstairs is 6'6" white guy with a beard, wears a white cloth and flip flops.

No, only the original texts are inspired.

Different, and perfectly reconcilable, versions of the same story, as was evidently intended by the use of four inspired authors instead of one.

Not to me, probably because the accusation of theft you are making goes way beyond the actual evidence.

Correct. God inspired the Bible for purposes which did not include publishing a textbook on natural history.

Yes and no.

You talk to a strange set of religious folks.

There are billions of stars and even more planets surrounding them. We cannot say for sure that the life doesn't exist in other galaxies or even for that matter in our own galaxy. We just don't have big enough sample size to justify or deny the case of "improbable" existence.

100% i agree with the idea of life existing in some other galaxy or as you suggest, maybe even our own!. Also i agree that the word improbable as defined; unlikely to take place or be true, isnt compatible with my statement of belief in other life forms in "space". You are correct KOA...but when i wrote that, or in general just think about that concept i feel happily overwhelmed to be in existence! And then i listen 2astronomy lectures and i think "hey, were is errybodyz" lol but I believe in one other concept..which is that all the elements that are represented in the periodic table ie all the chemical compositions know to atleast humans, was origionated in "space"! Starting with what eventually first lead to the planets formation and atmospheres then second (or simultaneously) these elements where "sprinkled" onto each planets surface. Through astroids impacts etc, and most likely contributed to the earliest of single celled micro organisms..initiating darwinian theory of evolution and culminating in a species that has tracked this process from the beginning with reasonable accuracy, even before are ancestors could acknowledge consciousness! At the very least you might agree that even with all the worlds collective scientific research too this point, we still haven't found any verifiable proof of other species. Thats frustrating! but I will offer however that i do believe an advanced lifeform helped the egyptians build and sculpt all those big heavy stone things, lol

Actually, I think a common view among Christians is they are able to get out of Hell if they stop being evil. If they don't get out, then it's because they continue to sin while they're in Hell. I also don't think eternal torment is a view that is as widely held as one might think.

In another post you mentioned the view that only those who hear about Jesus can be saved. I don't think that represents the Christian view, and I strongly suspect that most of the Christians on this forum would reject that view.

We're never going to have all the answers no matter what our beliefs about religion are. I think that's one of the problems with fundamentalism. It makes people think they have all the answers when they really don't.

sure, but why do you believe that he exists if you know nothing about him nor his existence?