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Craig Venter creates synthetic life form - Disproving God? Craig Venter creates synthetic life form - Disproving God?

05-21-2010 , 09:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sklansky
But very few atheists think the six year old is likely either. So they both have to change their probability estimates.
You think it's likely? okay, dokay.
Craig Venter creates synthetic life form - Disproving God? Quote
05-21-2010 , 09:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pletho
First of all, NO ONE and I mean NO ONE on this earth is able to create SOMETHING from NOTHING.



not yet. but once it happens i wish i would be around to here what all of the theist say in response.

heres a conversation 2 egyptians had 2000 years ago:
egyptian 1: "man, i really wish it didnt take us years upon years to get from here to china"

egyptian 2: "one day in the future itll happen.. you will be able to travel in a big metal container thousands of feet above the ground, and itll only take a few hours"

egyptian 1: " First of all, NO ONE and I mean NO ONE on this earth is able to FLY like birds, much less in something made of metal, from HERE to CHINA."
Craig Venter creates synthetic life form - Disproving God? Quote
05-21-2010 , 09:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pletho
They use the word create, but they do not know what the word create means, it means: To bring into existance something from nothing.
Where are you getting that definition of "create" Pletho? Also please show us some of your art that you have created.

definition of create:

1. To cause to exist; bring into being.

2. To give rise to; produce: That remark created a stir.

3. To invest with an office or title; appoint.

4. To produce through artistic or imaginative effort: create a poem; create a role.

–verb (used with object)
1.to cause to come into being, as something unique that would not naturally evolve or that is not made by ordinary processes.

2.to evolve from one's own thought or imagination, as a work of art or an invention.

3.Theater. to perform (a role) for the first time or in the first production of a play.
4.to make by investing with new rank or by designating; constitute; appoint: to create a peer.

5.to be the cause or occasion of; give rise to: The announcement created confusion.

6.to cause to happen; bring about; arrange, as by intention or design: to create a revolution; to create an opportunity to ask for a raise.
Craig Venter creates synthetic life form - Disproving God? Quote
05-21-2010 , 09:44 PM
Lol at kitty derailing thread.

Anyway, I think evolution is true, that God maybe chose two 'humans' and infused a soul into them, but I haven't thought that too far out. But I see no problem with men being able creating synthetic life forms in terms of my belief in God.

However, I think technology is going way too far in many cases - men don't need to explore certain sciences (human cloning for instance) and every science should be morally questioned before undertaking it.
Craig Venter creates synthetic life form - Disproving God? Quote
05-21-2010 , 09:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Raker
Very very few theists have a definition of god that includes that. So your post is irrelevant.
this is not necessarily true. insofar as we are only talking about the "creator god" possibilities.
Craig Venter creates synthetic life form - Disproving God? Quote
05-21-2010 , 10:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibninjas
this is not necessarily true. insofar as we are only talking about the "creator god" possibilities.
The god that theist believe exists. That god.
Craig Venter creates synthetic life form - Disproving God? Quote
05-21-2010 , 10:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibninjas
The ability to choose otherwise without it being random. See my exchange with eddie in this thread, starting towards the end of the first page.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/13...e-will-762055/
How about a computer playing chess? There are millions of moves a computer can make but the computer tries to make the most optimal move given any situation in a game.
Craig Venter creates synthetic life form - Disproving God? Quote
05-21-2010 , 10:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nittyit
How about a computer playing chess? There are millions of moves a computer can make but the computer tries to make the most optimal move given any situation in a game.
But given the exact same moves previous up until any given point, could that computer "choose otherwise?"

In other words, if at some point during the game the computer moves Knight to Queen 9, is it possible that given the exact same scenario could the computer have chosen to move differently?
Craig Venter creates synthetic life form - Disproving God? Quote
05-21-2010 , 10:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyme
The god that theist believe exists. That god.
The statement was,

Quote:
Very very few theists have a definition of god that includes that. So your post is irrelevant.
this is what I was responding to. This may not be the God that I believe exists (nor do most theists) but it could very well fit into a definition depending on the attributes of the 6 year old.
Craig Venter creates synthetic life form - Disproving God? Quote
05-21-2010 , 10:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zugzwang83


not yet. but once it happens i wish i would be around to here what all of the theist say in response.

heres a conversation 2 egyptians had 2000 years ago:
egyptian 1: "man, i really wish it didnt take us years upon years to get from here to china"

egyptian 2: "one day in the future itll happen.. you will be able to travel in a big metal container thousands of feet above the ground, and itll only take a few hours"

egyptian 1: " First of all, NO ONE and I mean NO ONE on this earth is able to FLY like birds, much less in something made of metal, from HERE to CHINA."
It will never happen, you will waste your life thinking and waiting for it.
Craig Venter creates synthetic life form - Disproving God? Quote
05-21-2010 , 10:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nittyit
Where are you getting that definition of "create" Pletho? Also please show us some of your art that you have created.

definition of create:

1. To cause to exist; bring into being.

2. To give rise to; produce: That remark created a stir.

3. To invest with an office or title; appoint.

4. To produce through artistic or imaginative effort: create a poem; create a role.

–verb (used with object)
1.to cause to come into being, as something unique that would not naturally evolve or that is not made by ordinary processes.

2.to evolve from one's own thought or imagination, as a work of art or an invention.

3.Theater. to perform (a role) for the first time or in the first production of a play.
4.to make by investing with new rank or by designating; constitute; appoint: to create a peer.

5.to be the cause or occasion of; give rise to: The announcement created confusion.

6.to cause to happen; bring about; arrange, as by intention or design: to create a revolution; to create an opportunity to ask for a raise.
To cause to come into being is fine with me, but they are leaving out one thing, to come into being from NOTHING.

Anything that anyone says they created, if it was not brought into being/existance from nothing, can be nothing more than manipulating something that already existed.

As for ART that I have done, I do not create, I merely rearange existing elements that all people have access to, into a visually stimulating and eye pleasing design or layout.
Craig Venter creates synthetic life form - Disproving God? Quote
05-21-2010 , 10:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerok
Lol at kitty derailing thread.

Anyway, I think evolution is true, that God maybe chose two 'humans' and infused a soul into them, but I haven't thought that too far out. But I see no problem with men being able creating synthetic life forms in terms of my belief in God.

However, I think technology is going way too far in many cases - men don't need to explore certain sciences (human cloning for instance) and every science should be morally questioned before undertaking it.
Suddenly my post makes a lot less sense.
Craig Venter creates synthetic life form - Disproving God? Quote
05-21-2010 , 11:02 PM
So a mind can create life and that disproves God....k
Craig Venter creates synthetic life form - Disproving God? Quote
05-21-2010 , 11:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pletho
It will never happen, you will waste your life thinking and waiting for it.
rofl you sound like a certain egyptian
Craig Venter creates synthetic life form - Disproving God? Quote
05-21-2010 , 11:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibninjas
But given the exact same moves previous up until any given point, could that computer "choose otherwise?"

In other words, if at some point during the game the computer moves Knight to Queen 9, is it possible that given the exact same scenario could the computer have chosen to move differently?
Yes. "Quiescence search attempts to emulate intuition by instructing a computer to search "interesting" positions to a greater depth than "quiet" ones (hence its name) to make sure there are no hidden traps and, usually equivalently, to get a better estimate of its value."

There are also other chess programs that can base their play on your play history. If you play the program it learns your tendencies or style and can factor that knowledge into a move. An example would be Deep Blue where it effectively learned Kasparov's play from past matches.
Craig Venter creates synthetic life form - Disproving God? Quote
05-21-2010 , 11:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zugzwang83
rofl you sound like a certain egyptian
Well, I'm not Egyptian, nor am I wrong.

You can ROFL all you want, but I will actually be in the position of having the last laugh, although I will probably not laugh, nor say I told you so.

I will just look at all the unbelievers who decided not to believe and not be able to help them because it will be too late to help by then.
Craig Venter creates synthetic life form - Disproving God? Quote
05-21-2010 , 11:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pletho
To cause to come into being is fine with me, but they are leaving out one thing, to come into being from NOTHING.
Perhaps you should write all the places that publish dictionaries.
Craig Venter creates synthetic life form - Disproving God? Quote
05-21-2010 , 11:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibninjas
But given the exact same moves previous up until any given point, could that computer "choose otherwise?"
Sure, why would it not be possible to give weights to the various moves based on their evaluations and then pick one randomly based on the weights?
Craig Venter creates synthetic life form - Disproving God? Quote
05-21-2010 , 11:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nittyit
Yes. "Quiescence search attempts to emulate intuition by instructing a computer to search "interesting" positions to a greater depth than "quiet" ones (hence its name) to make sure there are no hidden traps and, usually equivalently, to get a better estimate of its value."

There are also other chess programs that can base their play on your play history. If you play the program it learns your tendencies or style and can factor that knowledge into a move. An example would be Deep Blue where it effectively learned Kasparov's play from past matches.
looking forward to jib's reply. this could get interesting...
Craig Venter creates synthetic life form - Disproving God? Quote
05-22-2010 , 12:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pletho
Well, I'm not Egyptian, nor am I wrong.

You can ROFL all you want, but I will actually be in the position of having the last laugh, although I will probably not laugh, nor say I told you so.

I will just look at all the unbelievers who decided not to believe and not be able to help them because it will be too late to help by then.
rofl
Craig Venter creates synthetic life form - Disproving God? Quote
05-22-2010 , 06:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nittyit
Yes. "Quiescence search attempts to emulate intuition by instructing a computer to search "interesting" positions to a greater depth than "quiet" ones (hence its name) to make sure there are no hidden traps and, usually equivalently, to get a better estimate of its value."

There are also other chess programs that can base their play on your play history. If you play the program it learns your tendencies or style and can factor that knowledge into a move. An example would be Deep Blue where it effectively learned Kasparov's play from past matches.

This is by far the most interesting piece of writing in this thread.
Craig Venter creates synthetic life form - Disproving God? Quote
05-22-2010 , 06:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sklansky
This does not change the probability of God in either direction. As long as the definition of God includes that six year old boy from another dimension.

I can't help asking: wtf?
Craig Venter creates synthetic life form - Disproving God? Quote
05-22-2010 , 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pletho
LOL! Oh my God, the big fat over inflated EGO of mankind. What a joke!


LOL! I agree! Silly man, thinking the universe exists because a super powerful being brought it into existence for them to enjoy.
Craig Venter creates synthetic life form - Disproving God? Quote
05-22-2010 , 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SixT4
LOL! I agree! Silly man, thinking the universe exists because a super powerful being brought it into existence for them to enjoy.
Meh, thinking that the universe and everything are made for you and you are the biggest creation with which this creator communicates and punishes, sends his son and so on in such a world is not that egocentric..
Craig Venter creates synthetic life form - Disproving God? Quote
05-22-2010 , 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganstaman
Sure, why would it not be possible to give weights to the various moves based on their evaluations and then pick one randomly based on the weights?
As stated before, free will is the ability to choose otherwise without it being random.
Craig Venter creates synthetic life form - Disproving God? Quote

      
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