As I understand it God had a covenant with the Jews, part of wich was that God would sent a Messiah to save them. He sent Jesus. But Jesus will save the Christians. Jews, by definiton not Christians, will now go to hell and suffer eternaly. So how can Jesus be the Messiah when he will not in fact save the Jews, the prime charactaristic of the Messiah I would think ?

Holy cow.... seriously?

Holy cow, can you be any more obscure?

All of your logic fails in the OP. Try again.

This

Is that too obscure?

Yeah both your posts are pretty bad in giving the OP explanations.

True

He didn't came to 'save the Christians' but to save mankind

False. Depends on what you think are Jews. The New Testament makes a difference between people that accept Christ and people that do not. Jews that do not accept Christ are not seen as the Biblical (Christian) form of Jews. The Jews in the time that did not accept Christ rejected God. If you reject God, the consequences are simple.

Because he in fact DID save the Jews. The Jews that were willing to accept saviour and the Messiah. The 'Jews' now are not perceived as true Jews, because they do not accept Christ.

Approximately 15 million people were just offended by this statement.

To the OP, belief in a Messiah was not part of the original covenant as the Hebrews would have understood it. Messianic Judaism really only became a part of their community and an aspect of their religious practices in the couple of centuries before Christ (though possibly dating back as far as the Babylonian Captivity), reaching its zenith in the first century CE when the Zealot movement was agitating strongly against the Roman Empire.

Jesus, as understood in Pauline Christianity, did not have most of the characteristics that would have been commonly expected in Messianic Judaism, which anticipated a figure who would restore the theocracy of Davidic kingship and an independent Kingdom of Israel.

So what, truth js truth.

Wrong, I can show you verse upon verse where belief in the messiah was the main core, the main thing that they were to look forward to and believe in the future.

Thats because he did not come to restore Israel physically, as a nation, he came to restore them spiritually, so that they could have eternal life.

All the other stuff regarding the kingdom of Israel happens eventually in the future, but not like people think.

Still a factual statement. It'd be hard to argue with, given the passive voice.

The jews were offended by Jesus Christ countless times. But here is what he had to say about that....

Luk 7:23 And blessed is [he], whosoever shall not be offended in me.



Mat 13:57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.

Mat 15:12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?

Mat 26:31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.

Mat 26:33 Peter answered and said unto him, Though all [men] shall be offended because of thee, [yet] will I never be offended.

Mar 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

Mar 14:27 And Jesus saith unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered.

Jesus Christ only offended those who did not believe, who did not accept the truth he was teaching, which makes sense. All people no matter who you are get offended when someone says something that you do not agree with. Jesus Christ really shook the jews of his time up, because he looked them in the eye and told them how far off of the word of God they were. Which still holds true today, so in all reality if those who want to consider themselves jews, still get offended by the teachings of Christ, its not different than before, they are off the ball and do not practice what they say they believe in.

Act 25:8 While he answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all.

You are here using your own private definition of Jews which is
at odds with common usage. Furthermore at the time of the original
Covenant, God gave no hint that what he meant by "saving the Jews"
was actualy saving those Jews who converted to Christianity.
This would be at the very least grossly misleading.

I see. Thanks for the explanation. Still it sounds like at some point
a promise was made that was not honored in the way it was expected.
Now one could argue that the Jews just misunderstood.
However, since the promissor, being omnicient, knew how the promise would
be taken, it still seems deceptive.

May I point out that not believing something is
not the same as being offended.
Ex. I do not believe in Santa Clause.
I am not offended by Santa. I do not reject Santa.
What I reject is the story of those who claim there
is a Santa.

But he did not. According to Christianity, most of those praticing Judaism,
and most of those living in Israel today, will be damned. This is as I pointed out, inconsisted with what they were promised.

The old covenant was with all 12 tribes (+the levites) of Israel, not just the Jews. Also outsiders were permitted to enter the Kingdom. I doubt God has anything against the racial tribe of Judah solely based on race. However, Judaism which imo is more accurately a religion created from the Talmud than the Torah, and so by this, is understandably forsaken and illegitimate. If the Jews in Israel today were truly interested in legitimacy, they would have the law of Moses as their law today. (this could also be said of the people of the lost tribes)

All that being said, for those who say they're "saved", I say your not saved 'till your saved. Also I would not rule out Muslims as the Koran calls Jesus the Christ as well. I would also put the Hadiths in the same category as the Talmud. Also surely there are some from the tribe of Judah which accept Jesus as the Christ.

But is not the Old Testament part the of Christian faith? And according to the
OT not only did God not have anything against the Jews they are the only people that he realy cares for. Then suddenly he condemns his favorites to
infinite torture? And this because they misunderstood his promise to save them. Something he already knew since the begining of time was going to happen. The whole story seems to make no sense.

I think I already pointed out that clearly the Jews are not the only people God cares for. Everyone is born condemned and working towards salvation, not the other way around.

I do like your post because it highlights some widespread misconceptions. I'll repeat again that there were 12 tribes in ancient Israel, not just the tribe of Judah. So even in the narrow view that God only likes the racial tribes chosen in the old testament to be his people, there are still 11 more tribes.

Alright well it's been a long time but here are the impression I was left with
from the OT. There were 12 Tribes, Levites, Benjamites etc. They were all Jews, and God favored them all. That is still a tiny fraction of Humanity.
It would leave out among others the ancestors of most Christians.
In the OT these people were mostly cast as unimportant characters, occasionaly having to be smitten by God for being a nuisance to his favorite people.
But then as a said it's been awhile and maybe these to are misconceptions.

No, they were all Hebrews, a particular sub-group of Semitic herdsmen from Canaan. Jews are specifically descended from the Kingdom of Judah, the Southern offshoot of classical Israel that encompassed only a few of these 12 tribes, all of which (or the priestly and elite castes, at any rate) were taken to Babylon as captives of war in the 7th century BCE or so. The Northern Kingdom of Israel was destroyed by the Assyrians in the 8th century BCE. The historic "12 Tribes" (possibly an apocryphal or symbolic number) were scattered throughout the region along with other Semitic peoples, many of which probably still have descendants in the region who would have interbred with and assimilated into the cultures of the Assyrians, Phoenicians, Persians, Seleucids, Hellenes, Romans, and Arabs who followed. The remnants of Judah compiled their histories and religious texts while in Babylon, creating the body of beliefs now known as Judaism, which they traced back to the ancient religion of the Hebrews, which had not been originally monotheistic.

I should also note that at various times in history, certain ethnic groups have claimed to be the among the lost tribes of Israel. This sentiment was particularly common in Britain, where a theory of "British Israelism" emerged. Originally sympathetic to Jews as fellow chosen peoples of God, over time the movement's theology warped into the anti-Semitic ideology that has spawned a number of white supremacist movements, most notably Christian Identity in the United States.

A small contingent of the Nazi Party also embraced the notion that Aryans were the true chosen people of God, a "pure" strain of Israelites scattered across history, seen in contrast to the "corrupted" Israelites who became the Jews and reflected the most vile race of humanity.

On the other hand, the label has sometimes been applied to outside groups as well. Joseph Smith and other Mormon elders identified Native Americans as a further "lost tribe" of Israel (indeed, Mormon tradition holds that Native Americans used to be white and were visited by Christ after the resurrection).

There are aslo Nation of Yahweh and Rastafari (as far i know)
what claim that Zion was in Africa and that Jews stole their cultural identity.

Most Christians hate to admit these obvious truths. Because it is a lot easier to swallow that God will punish someone who rejects him as compared to someone who simply thinks his existence is unlikely. That would seem to be unfair of God. On the other hand most Christians also can't swallow that God might reward those who led very good, if imperfect lives, irrespective of their beliefs, and punish those who didn't, because that would be bad news for most Christians and non Christians alike.

I for one, am a proponent of British Israelism. I would say the lost tribes are the peoples of the English speaking countries such as Britian, U.S, Canada, Australia, Ireland, Scotland, and a few others.

There really can be no doubt about this. Genesis chapter 49 gives us some very interesting clues as Jacob/Israel prophesies concerning his sons in the last days (Gen 49:1). His sons of course being the first of each of the tribes.

Gen 49:10 and Gen 22-26 are absolutely fascinating really. We'll start with 49:10 concerning the tribe of Judah. The scepter shall not depart from Judah, Nor the rulers staff from between his feet, Until Shiloh comes.

In order to save time I won't investigate this too much as we know the first Kings of the Unified Israel were from the tribe of Judah and so was Jesus. Let us go on to the more overlooked tribe of Joseph and see what it says concerning him.

Gen 49 22-26

Joseph is a fruitful bough,
A fruitful bough by a spring;
Its branches run over a wall.

23“The archers bitterly attacked him,
And shot at him and harassed him;

24But his bow remained firm,
And his arms were agile,
From the hands of the Mighty One of Jacob
(From there is the Shepherd, the Stone of Israel), -not my insertion, see how different translations handle this

25From the God of your father who helps you,
And by the Almighty who blesses you
With blessings of heaven above,
Blessings of the deep that lies beneath,
Blessings of the breasts and of the womb.

26“The blessings of your father
Have surpassed the blessings of my ancestors
Up to the utmost bound of the everlasting hills;
May they be on the head of Joseph,
And on the crown of the head of the one distinguished among his brothers.

The key versus are: From there is the Shepherd, the Stone of Israel and And on the crown of the head of the one distinguished among his brothers.

Everyone needs to really think about what these versus mean. Do you really think God would let this most beloved tribe disappear into history? To cut to the chase, Brit means covenant in Hebrew and Welsh. Those who wear the British crown have descended from ancient Israel and from there claim authority. Somehow, the crown and the Christs birth are transferred from Judah to Joseph? How can this be? If you want to know Jahtruth.net.