Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Climbing Catfish Hikes Remote Venezuela Climbing Catfish Hikes Remote Venezuela

01-29-2009 , 05:21 PM
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2009/0...atfish-02.html

Quote:
Its specialized fin, which decouples from its body to allow for the climbing motion, is more linked to a subfamily called Lithogeninae, which includes the Andean climbing catfish.

The scientists aren't certain if the ability to climb evolved once, through the common ancestor, or independently in both of the climbing catfish.

Richard Vari, a research zoologist and curator in the Division of Fishes at the Smithsonian Institution, told Discovery News he was impressed by the research.

"I was particularly fascinated by the evidence for the ability of these fishes to climb rocky surfaces," Vari said. "This is a very unusual, but clearly invaluable ability in the swift river systems that they inhabit."

The researchers don't know whether or not the Venezuelan fish climbers are endangered, but Schaefer said it's possible they are confined to a narrowly restricted geographic region, meaning not many of them may exist.

He said the indigenous Piaroa peoples, who engage in subsistence farming and fishing, now occupy the region and have kept it "pristine."

"It is also remote and difficult to access, so incursions by tourists and collectors for the ornamental fish trade are very few," he concluded, but ominously added that the "situation may not last for much longer."
Now. What do you deduce happened?

A) This fish inherented this specialized fin from an ancestor.
B) This group of fish evolved the fin on it's own to find alternative food sources.
C) This group of fish evolved the fin on it's own to access other, less populated, safer bodies of water.
D) A magical man came down from the sky billions of years after he created regular fish, attached a helpful fin to this group of fish's bodies, and left without any evidence.
Climbing Catfish Hikes Remote Venezuela Quote
01-29-2009 , 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rizeagainst
Now. What do you deduce happened?

D) A magical man came down from the sky billions of years after he created regular fish, attached a helpful fin to this group of fish's bodies, and left without any evidence.
Your making it a little more complicated than it needs to be. That magic man only needs to alter the course of a single particle of ionizing radition. He coulda done that right at the big bang.
Climbing Catfish Hikes Remote Venezuela Quote
01-29-2009 , 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Pidasso
Your making it a little more complicated than it needs to be. That magic man only needs to alter the course of a single particle of ionizing radition. He coulda done that right at the big bang.
Now you have the task of figuring out why your god didn't even so much as mention the big bang or ionizing radiation in your holy book. If it was so important to the creation of life and the mutation/evolution of life, surely god would have included this information for you. Good luck!

Last edited by rizeagainst; 01-29-2009 at 06:23 PM.
Climbing Catfish Hikes Remote Venezuela Quote
01-29-2009 , 06:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rizeagainst
Now you have the task of figuring out why your god didn't even so much as mention the big bang or ionizing radiation in your holy book. If it was so important to the creation of life and the mutation/evolution of life, surely god would have included this information for you. Good luck!
It seems one of the special attributes of human beings, as compared to other animals, is we have this special ability to figure out the inner workings of our world. If that special ability is a gift from God(and most religious people would say that it is) then it makes sense God wouldn't spoon feed us all that knowledge.
Climbing Catfish Hikes Remote Venezuela Quote
01-29-2009 , 06:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Pidasso
It seems one of the special attributes of human beings, as compared to other animals, is we have this special ability to figure out the inner workings of our world. If that special ability is a gift from God(and most religious people would say that it is) then it makes sense God wouldn't spoon feed us all that knowledge.
Why then, did he endow us with senses such as hearing, seeing, touching, tasting, and smelling...as well as our power to think and reason through the evaluation of evidence and the universe... if our true test in life is to take his existence on blind faith? Doesn't that seem ironic to you? Doesn't it seem....say.....ASS BACKWARDS.......to give a bunch of beings the ability to reason through evidence and think criticially, and then to expect all of them to take your existence on blind faith otherwise you put them in a lake of fire for the rest of their lives?

You.Can't.Tell.Me.That.Makes.Sense.To.You.
Climbing Catfish Hikes Remote Venezuela Quote
01-29-2009 , 09:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rizeagainst
Why then, did he endow us with senses such as hearing, seeing, touching, tasting, and smelling...as well as our power to think and reason through the evaluation of evidence and the universe... if our true test in life is to take his existence on blind faith? Doesn't that seem ironic to you? Doesn't it seem....say.....ASS BACKWARDS.......to give a bunch of beings the ability to reason through evidence and think criticially, and then to expect all of them to take your existence on blind faith otherwise you put them in a lake of fire for the rest of their lives?

You.Can't.Tell.Me.That.Makes.Sense.To.You.
No it doesn't seem ass backwards. Ass backwards would be giving us all these tools and then spoon feeding us everything.

If God had made it known to humans that he existed for a fact, you would still criticize Him for not spoon feeding so its absolutely clear what religion is the correct religion. If God then made it absolutely clear what religion was the correct religion, you would criticize Him for not spoon feeding us a cure for small pox. If God spoon fed us the cure for small pox you would criticize Him for not spoon feeding us a cure for acne.

Now if God spoon fed us everything, you would criticize him for giving us all these wonderful tools and no way to use them.
Climbing Catfish Hikes Remote Venezuela Quote
01-29-2009 , 09:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Pidasso
If God had made it known to humans that he existed for a fact, you would still criticize Him...
If God flew down and moved a mountain in front of me I would not be criticizing him for ANYTHING, and I doubt anyone else would either. Except maybe .001% of the population.
Climbing Catfish Hikes Remote Venezuela Quote
01-29-2009 , 09:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Pidasso
If God had made it known to humans that he existed for a fact, you would still criticize Him for not spoon feeding so its absolutely clear what religion is the correct religion. If God then made it absolutely clear what religion was the correct religion, you would criticize Him for not spoon feeding us a cure for small pox. If God spoon fed us the cure for small pox you would criticize Him for not spoon feeding us a cure for acne.
I would.

Because based on your claims of the characteristics of god (allknowing all powerful blahblah) he would be able to give us the cure to all diseases. Since he hasn't done that, and didn't do that in your theoretical situation, he would STILL be directly responsible for unwanted and meaningless human suffering.

Maybe he and you see that as okay, I don't.

What would be the point of god giving us these tools and watching millions of people die while we run around like rats in a maze trying to figure out the answers he already knows and then stabs us if we run into the wrong corner? What, exactly, is he or we gaining from that?
Climbing Catfish Hikes Remote Venezuela Quote
01-29-2009 , 10:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butcho22
If God flew down and moved a mountain in front of me I would not be criticizing him for ANYTHING, and I doubt anyone else would either. Except maybe .001% of the population.
You expect me to believe that? You would be cursing God for not creating a tree that bore watsons as its fruit.
Climbing Catfish Hikes Remote Venezuela Quote
01-29-2009 , 10:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Pidasso
You expect me to believe that? You would be cursing God for not creating a tree that bore watsons as its fruit.
your avatar puts me on tilt for some reason, also if God brought us all to heaven nobody would complain if it's all that it's cracked up to be
Climbing Catfish Hikes Remote Venezuela Quote
01-29-2009 , 10:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rizeagainst
What would be the point of god giving us these tools and watching millions of people die while we run around like rats in a maze trying to figure out the answers he already knows and then stabs us if we run into the wrong corner? What, exactly, is he or we gaining from that?
Your comparision of humans to rats running a maze is erroneous. A rat made to run a maze does so soley for the benefit of man. Humanity made to have a challenging existence benefits humanity.
Climbing Catfish Hikes Remote Venezuela Quote
01-29-2009 , 10:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Pidasso
Humanity made to have a challenging existence benefits humanity.
Really? I wonder if you would still think that if you were going to die from cancer in 5 days. Or if you were in the world trade center on 9/11. I wonder just how much you would value that "challenging existence."
Climbing Catfish Hikes Remote Venezuela Quote
01-29-2009 , 10:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillNye
your avatar puts me on tilt for some reason, also if God brought us all to heaven nobody would complain if it's all that it's cracked up to be
Now is there anything in scripture that describes heaven? I suspect Heaven is a lot different than people think it is.
Climbing Catfish Hikes Remote Venezuela Quote

      
m