I don't know if you have real control or not if you find someone attractive (like children) which is deemed unacceptable, or seen as sinful.

I also don't think it matters that much in regards to sin. If it so happens that you are inherently born with an attraction to children (if that is possible), I can recognize that that sucks, but I don't think it makes it any less sinful.

I think there is a debate as to whether or not you are born that way, but I really don't think that matters objectively speaking, if it's wrong, it's wrong.

You know, I'm not so sure about this. I lived a very sheltered existence when I was younger, and there was a lot of moving around, and running and hiding going on. Even when I was 11-14, I knew very little about sex, or sexual issues. I probably had no idea what oral sex was, or what a woman's vagina looked like. I think this might be pretty common for someone constantly on the move, and who doesn't have a father around, either. So, I was a little awkward when I got into high school and middle school. I was definitely a late bloomer.

I remember getting a job at a supermarket, and all the male coworkers would talk about was sex and women all of the time it seemed. And God knows I had women and sex on my mind a lot. And I def would look at beautiful women that caught my eye, but not like these guys: they looked and commented on every single "hot" women that walked by, whistling, winking, commenting on the size and shape of various body parts. And I clearly remember the manager beginning to attack me, and treating me like I was a second-class citizen. When I finally brought the issue up to another coworker, he made it pretty clear that the manager felt that I wasn't "one of the boys," because I didn't talk about sex and women nonstop, nor comment on them as they walked by. I was told that I was also too quiet. Those were the issues. But I had just come out of my christian phase, or was coming out of it, and nobody ever told me that I had to whistle at hot women as they walked by, or comment on the size of their buttocks. I spent my nights with christian friends talking about cool stuff like the prophecies of revelation, or debating on whether you played a certain led zeppelin song backward, it did or did not sound out a satanic chant. I studied the Bible and prayed for peace in my household. I had my head in my Strong's greek and hebrew concordance, and not in an issue of Hustler.

So I caved in to peer pressure, and began to do as the others did. This behavior seemed to enforce and embolden me sexually, just by partaking in it. I remember that year as the first year that I had more than one girlfriend, and my personality went through drastic changes. "Act confident, and you will be confident," someone told me once. There is a lot of truth to this. But I felt like the behavior actually stimulated me, sexually. I began to openly gawk at women and their bodies, and I felt myself becoming more and more of a sexual creature, driven by sexual urges, thinking only of what sex with this or that woman would be like. The behaviors I had adopted seemed to act as a sexual stimulant, for sure. I felt more masculine, more manly, and less like the meek and naive teenager I had been just a few years earlier.

I will also add that I had a certain "type" that I was attracted to before, which was long blonde hair, skinny, with blue eyes. I think these new behaviors allowed me to open my mind concerning other body types. I no longer only wanted a beautiful blonde girl, but now I found all different varieties of women sexy, whether they were a little on the buxom side, or big-bottomed, or whatever.

And there is another proverb that comes to mind, about how "first impressions are lasting impressions." That manager never did accept me as one of the boys. He always seemed disturbed by my very presence, and I could never get his respect.

So believe in jesus is NOT the thing that gets you into heaven then?

Romans 3:20
because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin

Romans 3:28
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Galatians 2:16
nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

I was addressing your claim that "Someone who goes round raping and murdering is judged the same as someone who once told a white lie." In terms of punishment, that may not be completely correct, since Jesus seems to suggest that "it will be more tolerable for some on that day" (judgement) than others, meaning that it's not just a "pass" or "fail" type of system.

As for forgiveness, people are forgiven freely if they repent and are sincere and heaven is the reward (see Matthew 20) but, there is also the idea of "storing treasures in heaven" which also suggests that there is more for some than others.

OK, not the law but each individual, in order to develop from life to life has impediments which include his karma which is not a punishment but a considered working through of barriers to his future development. This in essence is also involved with the redemption of Lucifer.

A person performs a heinous deed and karma is a necessity and in fact after death the individual man will in essence welcome and ask for this karmic work.

the question is: why Christ if karma is played out? the answer is that all of our deeds are written in the heavenly tablet but still exist and a darkness is present in the heavenly bodies. When a man takes Christ into his life the "objective" deeds are taken in by Christ. He takes in all of our "sins".

To attempt to make it clearer(if that's possible) if a "seer" were to look back into ancient times in order to see the deeds of a man who had performed this heinous deed (s) he would not see them if that particular person has taken Christ into his life(s).

On the earth, if one robs a bank the deed will be written in the heavens and karma will have to be satisfied but its not enough for the objective fact of the robbery will be written and if the man brings Christ into his life (s) Christ will take this into Himself and in this the individual man is on the road to redemption.

Of course the question still presents itself as to how one brings Christ into his life and in this "knowledge of Christ" is being worked upon by ALL men even if not consciously aware of it during this present times.

This is another way of saying that each man plans his future or next life and in this even the depths of suffering are asked for, nay, even demanded. Very few know consciously of their individual karma but of this I have no answer.

Christianity is in its beginning stages but remember its about the Christ Being, who in the mystery of Golgotha, entered into the earth sphere and now is present within the higher bodies of men. He is the "Spirit of the Earth". Just as we are spiritual/soul beings who inhabit a physical body so is the Christ the Spirit/Soul of the earth.

Bodies are ; physical body, etheric body (formative force body and not the ether of the physicists) Astral body and Ego and three higher bodies yet to come.

One more, "Faith" is a "power" to the future and not about knowledge but the impetus to future manifestation.

Have to correct the above; "faith" not being about knowledge; must have been asleep when i wrote this.

"Faith" is a power but it is NOT "believing in something which cannot be justified" as the naysayers would have it. They would condemn you as a believer in irrationality but not that.

"Faith" is a power, a way of knowing, where as Man as he looks outside of himself he sees "wisdom" and "truth" while bringing this wisdom and truth into Man's inner nature is "knowledge". "Faith"is the power which speaks to the future, a "way of knowing", the "path" , so to speak, and this future is the Christ.

ye, ok, but what does this actually mean, because it just sounds like gibberish.

Where does he see wisdom and truth? What is mans inner nature? What does it mean for something to be " a power that speaks to the future"? And so on.

This is not debatable , but in one instance look to nature. A man may speak of "wisdom" and state that someone has wisdom but "wisdom" is in nature, "truth" likewise. You are within and speak to "wisdom" daily.

We have come to the point where we see ourselves as the arbiters of "truth" and indeed we are "wisdom filled" and "truth" but we don't own "truth"; the very cosmic creation is "truth" and in this we are a part as a finger on our body.

The others speak for themselves;the items mentioned by you speak for themselves but call for work on your part.

Do you have an inner nature ?

Do you not speak to the future ?

Where does your "wisdom" and "truth" lie ?

ONe example: man at one time patted himself on the back as the creator of paper yet look out into nature and see that the wasp's nest is made of the same as our paper.

What do scientists do but examine nature and actually the further evolution of the scientist will be "science of the spirit" or in our present times "science of the supersensible", or continuing on but lower, "science of the non material".

again, this makes no sense, its just gibberish


I dont really know what you mean by inner nature, but my first response is, no, I dont. Can you expand on what you mean by inner nature?

I dont really know what you mean by "speak to the future", but my first response is, no, I dont. Can you expand on what you mean by speak to the future?

Have a good day !!

I was being serious in asking you to expand, but ok.

fyp. There's not many biblical reasons to dismiss reincarnation. There are many biblical reasons to confirm reincarnation. But, for the Christian religionist, reincarnation has to be dismissed because too many of the doctrines would fall apart if it were so.

http://www.ocoy.org/original-christi...reincarnation/
http://reluctant-messenger.com/origen.html

It's true that, in this world, reincarnation and karma are the current system that we live within. And you try to explain why this is so and how this is good for all of us, etc. The truth is much simpler. The system of reincarnation was imposed upon the world by the god of this world. Salvation is "going out no more" (Rev 3:12), being free from reincarnating into the world system again and again. It's a big multiverse with places to go and people to see. We don't have to stay chained here forever working off an inexhaustible debt.

I meant the traditional definition of reincarnation, NOT what the link you posted describes as "the immortal soul is reborn eternally with no ending", but instead "that there is an immortal soul which goes from birth to birth."

This, from the same website is a pretty silly interpretation of reincarnation, imo:

Then Jesus said unto them, Verily verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but My Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.”39 Notice that the Lord does not say “Moses gave your fathers not that bread from heaven,” but instead: “Moses gave you not that bread from heaven,” thereby indicating that those very persons who were challenging Him had been with Moses in the desert

I'm not sure as to your meaning but reincarnation is not forever as death is not forever. Only Man dies except for the Christ Being, who is not a man, who went through death in order to bring forth the transformative template for the improvement of Man.

In the heavens there is metamorphosis but not death. Man's work is to gain knowledge of death which is inextricably intertwined with his future nobility.

There are higher beings than man who are involved with his progression and I'm not sure as to whether you are relating to the 'transmigration of souls" or not but if you aren't apologies but the idea that a man can reincarnate as cheetah or cricket or indeed a toad in the next life is fallacious. Man returns as man, the spirit ,Man.

The only referral I can give to you (not the only presentation but somewhat of a start) is in the Revelation of John in which the New Jerusalem is formed and the walls of the city are 144 cubits, that of a man but of an angel which is a referral to the future consciousness of man is of an angel or more to the point his attendant angel, the next higher state to man.

Father,Son,Holy Spirit
Seraphim or spirits of Love
Cherubim or Spirits of Harmony
Thrones or Spirits of Will
Kyriotetes or Spirits of Wisdom
Dynamis or Spirits of Movement
Exusiai or Spirits of Form
Archae or Spirits of Personality or Time
Archangels or Spirits of Fire
Angels or Spirits of Twilight/Life
Human Spirits
Spirits yet to come

To speak of places to go and people to see is to interpret reincarnation and the future of Man according to his present state but the heavens are our home and we are gaining the state of our present day Angels, the next higher state of consciousness.

that is what the Revelation of John points to and also in this movement the Earth itself, is transformed and that future state has been given by Occultists the name of Jupiter. Please note that not the Jupiter planet but a "state of being/consciousness" called Jupiter. There is no death and therefore reincarnation is moot. That Jupiter State will have as its expression "Love". As we see "Wisdom" in the trees and oceans so in that next state of Jupiter all will manifest the expression of "Love".



The heavenly beings are in motion, as we are, as continued development is present throughout.

....was tongue in cheek. An attempt at funny.
Nor do men reincarnate as animals. Not sure where you got that from out of my post.

Sorry, I see it a lot from Eastern lore or at least the belief of Westerners who read some Eastern lore.

Again, I apologize but my funny meter is not so good lately.

The best to you.

Carlo

That the scheme of reincarnation/karma was imposed upon this world is not really Western or Eastern. The common reasons given, including yours about development and growth, don't hold water if you imagine your development if you didn't have an artificial obstacle and erasure imposed on you every 70 years or so. Reincarnation/karma is illusory as are all the benefits, reasons and meaning given to justify it. It's not how things work outside of the Milky Way. I allow that much will come from having been through the whole earth experience; but, that benefit will come after we save ourselves out of the system. As for now, we reincarnate ignorantly, thinking we have karma to work off or have to develop into an angel or something. (Or, like for most, reincarnate ignorantly that we even have reincarnated!--how great is that for our "development")

You are very knowledgeable spiritually and yet you seem to have no idea that reincarnation may be an artificially imposed construct, kind of like how we, as higher beings, impose ourselves on lower beings, like cows and chickens, and put them on farms within fences, take their fruit and make them slaves to our will. You understand there are higher beings compared to man? That man is a lower being to some higher beings? Consider the farm analogy and you'll intuit the truth of the reincarnation scheme.

As Naked_Rectitude stated, faith in Christ and God is all one needs to get into heaven. Our hearts and flesh are easily tempted, but having the power of the Holy Spirit makes it much easier to fight temptation.

The other thing to consider is how prominent pornography is in our society now adays. 15+ years ago, we didn't have the 10-15 year old girls posting lewd photos of themselves on Myspace or Facebook. The amount of child porn on the internet is disgusting. It is so easy for anyone to look up any type of porn they want and it can easily become an addiction/obsession.

I would think that this man in question looked at too much pornography and it likely only attracted to them because the porn has desensitized him. Jesus still loves that man and so long as this man believes Christ died, was buried, and resurrected for our sins then they will go to heaven.

I know this may sound absurd, but when you develop a relationship with Christ and The Lord it is a lot easier to avoid temptation. I used to have a porn addiction, would look at it at least once a day if not 3 times sometimes :/ I still relapse, but it isn't something I constantly think about anymore. Christ has helped set me free of many of my addictions, including porn and alcohol! Cigarettes are next

You'd have to define "attraction"

If I see a looker downtown and I'm like "Gimme dat ass" - it becomes a very different situation from "oh, she's pretty."

In the case of finding children "attractive" - you need to define what you mean. Finding something beautiful for what it is, is in no way a sin against God - but in fact, very much what God wants.

If you mean some guy is attracted in the sense of "hey kiddie, I want to have a relationship and whatever else that entails" then we have a problem. We have a self-motivated want, like "I'd be happy if..."
And God is in the business of restoration, of making all things right. The way He does this is by changing our motivations by becoming our centrepiece. It is not so much "****, I need to get my act together or else" but that as soon as you experience His love for you - which is selfless and well unwarranted - then you begin to love the same way. You begin to love/live in a way that puts whoever is in front of you in high regard, where you honor them/treat them as if they deserved the very best you can bring.

If you were to love a child in this way then you would naturally find that those attractions alleviate because you are about their absolute best and honouring them. A good question is "What good would a child derive from being in any sort of romantic relationship(or the like) with a grown adult?" And there are others you could bring to the table.

Covet is sin because it is possessive. It is about "self" which is unrelational in nature - "unrelational" is opposite of God's nature.

It is not so much about self restraint (though it is) but about love.

There are many who will not only restrain themselves but do a lot of good in their lives and still won't be regarded by Christ because He didn't "know" them. Imagine emotionless apologies, passionless kissing - God doesn't want your obedience - He wants you.

Salvation is much like a symphony God invites us to be in. There is a wide array of instruments, all complimenting one another. When we haven't yet encountered God, we're found playing our instrument on our own, always imagining our "part". It is one thing for us to stop playing our incongruent part with the rest of the players, it is another to join in their song.

It is, in a way, the deepest form of empathy - Constantly trying to out-love one another. If you're trying to out-love a child, it is very likely your desire would change because chances are that the situation of an adult being with them in a romantic way, would cheat them of what's very best for their life. A man motivated by love would respond to any sort of desire for the opposite of their best with absolute resistance - "How could I even consider doing that to someone I love so much!?" You would grieve over the very thought. And as long as you continued in that way, being known/loved by God, you'd be very hard pressed to keep any such desire.

This isn't really an answer to the question because it's an incorrect question.

If you were madly in love with someone and they came to you one day and asked for a sandwich, you probably wouldn't grab wonderbread, mayo, and some bologna - we might think "Like I'd feed her that garbage!" We might even go so far as to buy the necessary ingredients to make something you know they'll absolutely love. He wouldn't even ask her "would you be okay with mayo and bologna?" And it would be very very odd for someone to ask him "would she be okay if you gave her mayo and bologna? Because the answer is not directly but indirectly very obvious. That guy would answer, "lol, what?"

believers, correct me?

It would even be possible for him to get to heaven if he acted upon it and afterwards had God's forgivness.

@lionhat
Nice response. Very good analogies!