I don't believe you perceive Barker that way any more than I believe Trump apologists actually believe their defenses of him. Call me faithless in your discourse.

I saw the debate. You can probably watch it for yourself on YouTube.



I've been in a public debate, so I know what it's like.

Edit: I don't care if you believe me or not.


Another edit: (L)et God be true, but every man a liar...

Romans 3:4

I would think that it is part of the religion to care about such things, but then again the Snarky Jesus might be the explanation. Once you come to the realization that the religion is much like all the rest of them, you can see the good and bad of it, i.e. the humanness of it ... and then you won't be trapped into absurd positions. Like my piano playing is indistinguishable from Mozart's artistically until Yahweh tells you. THAT is forfeiture of agency, which is the evil in religion. Because that is the exact same principle that says, okay, let's fly these planes into buildings because there is no standard other than my god.

Could you please do me a quick favor?

Please refer me even ONE post of yours in this thread which would qualify as evidence to a Religious Studies professor that you understand what Christianity is.

Thanks in advance.

While you certainly are a master at engaging in psychological reductionism, do you actually have any substantive argument against the propositional content of the Bible, rather than just the rather tiresome, "I don't like it, and people who believe in it are rubes" variety?

It's amazing that you've done "hundreds of such reads", and still don't exhibit any evidence whatsoever that you even understand what Christians believe.

The bolded proves that you have never engaged the relevant literature on the subject. There are many hundreds (thousands?) of books that cite fulfilled prophecy as one of the main arguments for the supernatural nature of the Bible, and all of them (that I have seen/read) give specific examples.

Here are a few:

Rule of King Cyrus (Isa. 44:28,45:1)
Palestine and the Jews (Lev. 26:31-33, Ezek. 36:33-35)
The City of Tyre (Ezek. 26:1-21)
The Fall of Nineveh (Isa. 10; Nah. 2:1-13)
The Fall of Babylon (Isa. 13;47)
Israel's 400 Years in Egypt (Gen. 15:13)

There are well over a hundred fulfilled prophecies.

Certainly a discussion can be had about the legitimacy of any given prophecy, but to say that nobody ever cites an example just proves that you have not engaged the relevant literature on the subject.

I have no knowledge of the history of Russia, but I don't pretend that I do.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that one of these claims looked like it really was a "fulfilled prophecy".

How would you get from that to "therefore God" or even "therefore a god"? Just broadly.

Successfully foretelling the future numerous times, with zero missteps, is indicative of the Bible's supernatural origin. No human being in history has successfully foretold the future without an error. For example, the Koran has zero fulfilled prophecies other than a small number of self-fulfilling prophecies that Muhammad made about himself. Kinda like me "foretelling", on November 13, 2020, that on November 13, 2021 I will travel to Oklahoma City. The prophecies in the Bible involve people other than the person making the prophecy, and are often fulfilled hundreds of years after the prophecy was made.

Lol, you can't just assert it! All I can see indicated is that someone apparently successfully prophesied some future event. How would you link this mysterious event to God/god?


I am willing to go on the record and tell the world that tomorrow (Fri) evening I will be eating home made pizza for my dinner.

Stand by.

If you had actually read what I wrote I covered self fulfilling prophecies as not counting as legit prophecies.

You have a long history of not paying attention. Please try harder. Thanks.

Edit: unless I added the last part while you were responding, in which case I spologize.

I agree that my joke was not a true prophecy. If I had not included it, would you have answered my question about explaining the mystery?



PS Hmmm, I think your comment about a history of not paying attention was probably (and slightly ironically) directed towards your original interlocutor, FellaGaga-52... I rather rudely jumped into the middle of this discussion between the two of you last night

The pizza was delicious btw.

Do Christians believe that Jesus was born of a virgin and the sacrament of drinking his blood is part of the life everlasting sacrament and he was raised from the dead and that he walked on water and that he raised Lazarus from the dead and that he was omniscient, etc. etc. ??

All Biblically literate Christians would believe all of the above, with the slight exception that most Protestants would not refer to the Lord's Supper as a sacrament in that they would deny that one is literally drinking Jesus' blood, and would instead view it as a symbolic ordinance.

There are certain core beliefs that all Biblically literate Christians agree on.

And aren't you the guy that just said I exhibit no understanding of what Christians believe?

I was. Which I had good reason to believe, before your response, based on many of your earlier posts.

Having said that, the Christian worldview is not merely a collection of beliefs, but is most importantly the "big picture" idea of God sending His Son as propiation for the sins of mankind.

When I clearly demonstrate the religion can only be apocryphal, you respond by miming the dogma, doctrine and talking points of the religion. What's wrong with that? Anything? There's nothing wrong obviously with being a proponent of a religion, but one needs to have some meta-awareness of oneself and what they are doing.

I don't think you "clearly demonstrated" anything other than you are a Master at psychological reductionism.

What a surprise, more psychological reductionism.

Would you describe yourself as dug in or open-minded?

When the components fall, the myth falls. Then it is seen for what it is: a religion like all the rest. How could it not be a religion like all the rest??

I'm just wondering if you'll be answering my question.

Reminder:

Not one prophecy. Hundreds.

No components have fallen.

Question too vague.