Christianity Today vs. Christian Post - Religion, God, and Theology

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Christianity Today vs. Christian Post

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12-24-2019 , 05:03 PM

Aaron W.

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 30,132

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct...om-office.html

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To the many evangelicals who continue to support Mr. Trump in spite of his blackened moral record, we might say this: Remember who you are and whom you serve. Consider how your justification of Mr. Trump influences your witness to your Lord and Savior. Consider what an unbelieving world will say if you continue to brush off Mr. Trump’s immoral words and behavior in the cause of political expediency. If we don’t reverse course now, will anyone take anything we say about justice and righteousness with any seriousness for decades to come? Can we say with a straight face that abortion is a great evil that cannot be tolerated and, with the same straight face, say that the bent and broken character of our nation’s leader doesn’t really matter in the end?

We have reserved judgment on Mr. Trump for years now. Some have criticized us for our reserve. But when it comes to condemning the behavior of another, patient charity must come first. So we have done our best to give evangelical Trump supporters their due, to try to understand their point of view, to see the prudential nature of so many political decisions they have made regarding Mr. Trump. To use an old cliché, it’s time to call a spade a spade, to say that no matter how many hands we win in this political poker game, we are playing with a stacked deck of gross immorality and ethical incompetence. And just when we think it’s time to push all our chips to the center of the table, that’s when the whole game will come crashing down. It will crash down on the reputation of evangelical religion and on the world’s understanding of the gospel. And it will come crashing down on a nation of men and women whose welfare is also our concern.

https://www.christianpost.com/news/c...n-elitism.html

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This attitude is distinctly unbiblical. In Philippians, the Apostle Paul describes Jesus —the only one who rightly deserves elite status — as one who, “though in the form of God, did not count equality with God as a thing to be grasped, but humbled himself.” Instead, Jesus washed His disciples’ feet, fellowshipped with sinners, tax collectors and the racially “unclean,” and was the first to champion equality for women, slaves, and even lepers.

Mr. Galli asks evangelicals supporting Trump to consider how continued support for the president will impede and compromise evangelical witness for Jesus to an unbelieving world. One might well ask Mr. Galli how his obvious elitist disdain and corrosive condescension for fellow Christians with whom he disagrees, as ignorant, uneducated, “aliens in our midst” might well damage evangelical witness to an unbelieving world. Unbelievers might well conclude, “These Christian preach love for neighbor, but they certainly don’t seem to practice what they preach!”

You may think Trump is a narcissistic, morally challenged, belligerent cad who has no business being president — except for the pesky constitutional fact that over 60 million American voters elected him to it. You may see Trump as a modern day Cyrus, the Persian king who did God’s bidding in assisting in the restoration of Jerusalem. You may think Trump is a Samson-like hero called to realign the Supreme Court, to redirect the economy toward the American worker, and/or to tear down the pillars of Deep State corruption in modern Washington. But whatever you think — and however you vote — America will certainly survive and is, in significant ways, thriving under a Trump presidency — even if it lasts another four years.

However, our religious and other freedoms will not long survive a government of elites so convinced of their superiority that they are willing to compromise constitutional due process, after illegally manipulating the nation’s national security and law enforcement apparatus behind the scenes, to depose a duly-elected sitting president — all the while declaring arrogantly to the American people that it is for their own good.

These are the fellow travelers that Christianity Today is clearly aligning itself with at this critical juncture in our nation’s history. CT’s op-ed does not represent evangelical Christianity today, yesterday or in the future. After all, a majority of Trump’s evangelical support has been triggered by his opponents’ advocating policies that make him appear to be, at the very least, the lesser of two evils in a binary contest.

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12-26-2019 , 01:20 AM

VforVendetata

journeyman

Join Date: Nov 2019 Posts: 243

It's weird, because if Christians stop supporting him in his role as a conservative president and he doesn't get impeached then that might impact his desire to champion Christian causes as he continues on in his presidency. He's supposed to be above that but he's Trump.

And if Christians get a whiff of that, what are they supposed to do, vote for a Democrat?

Last edited by VforVendetata; 12-26-2019 at 01:27 AM. Reason: Trump

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12-27-2019 , 02:26 AM

BeaucoupFish

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 4,575

https://www.christianpost.com/news/d...itorial-158813

This is a Christian Post editorial from Feb 2016 (I found the link in a comment):

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Donald Trump Is a Scam. Evangelical Voters Should Back Away (CP Editorial)

Editors' Note: The Christian Post has not taken a position on a political candidate before today. We are making an exception because Trump is exceptionally bad and claims to speak for and represent the interests of evangelicals.

We the senior editors of The Christian Post encourage our readers to back away from Donald Trump.

As the most popular evangelical news website in the United States and the world, we feel compelled by our moral responsibility to our readers to make clear that Donald Trump does not represent the interests of evangelicals and would be a dangerous leader for our country.

Trump claims to be a Christian, yet says he has never asked for forgiveness.

While God, in His wondrous creativity, has drawn people to Himself through the saving grace of Jesus Christ in many different ways, there are certain non-negotiable actions needed to become a Christian: One must repent of their sins and follow Christ as Lord and Savior. Trump doesn't talk this way, even when urged to.

Further, his words and actions do not demonstrate the "fruit of the spirit."
Trump is a misogynist and philanderer. He demeans women and minorities. His preferred forms of communication are insults, obscenities and untruths. While Christians have been guilty of all of these, we, unlike Trump, acknowledge our sins, ask for forgiveness and seek restitution with the aid of the Holy Spirit and our community of believers.

On Sunday, Trump's apparent reluctance to disavow David Duke until late in the day was extremely distasteful. The Ku Klux Klan is an evil, unholy movement representing the worst of America. Anyone who will not immediately denounce their support is unfit to be president.
Trump claims he will "protect Christians." We already have a Protector, and He is not Trump.

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12-27-2019 , 02:35 AM

VforVendetata

journeyman

Join Date: Nov 2019 Posts: 243

Is the Christian Post suggesting that Christians vote for a Democrat? What is the strategy, Christian Post? Vote for somebody who's going to push for post-birth abortions?

The strategy should be to reserve judgement until this impeachment nonsense is done with, if you can still brain.

Edit: I missed the date of that article. Point still stands.

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12-27-2019 , 05:51 AM

Mightyboosh

mmm mmm good

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 5,560

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Originally Posted by BeaucoupFish

https://www.christianpost.com/news/d...itorial-158813

This is a Christian Post editorial from Feb 2016 (I found the link in a comment):

Nice find. Trump supporting Christians are no different to any other of his con victims, except perhaps for being an even softer target.

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12-30-2019 , 09:47 AM

Mightyboosh

mmm mmm good

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 5,560

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You may think Trump is a narcissistic, morally challenged, belligerent cad who has no business being president

I don't 'think' it, I know it. He's not just a 'cad', he's vile. Who brags about 'grabbing pussies'? And his career is littered with examples of him conning people.

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— except for the pesky constitutional fact that over 60 million American voters elected him to it.

Which doesn't change that Trump is unfit for office. It just means that 60 millions Americans can't see it.

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America will certainly survive and is, in significant ways, thriving under a Trump presidency — even if it lasts another four years.

America might 'certainly' not survive, it's just an idea, like any other country, and it can change even to the point of not being shared by enough people anymore that it still exists as it does now, like Yugoslavia, or the USSR.. and the USA is most certainly not 'thriving' as financial figures released by Trump's own administration show. GDP failed to hit even the lowest of his promised targets. The Budget deficit and the trade deficit have both exploded, manufacturing is in a slump, wages growth is stagnating, etc etc etc... Hardly 'thriving'.

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However, our religious and other freedoms will not long survive a government of elites so convinced of their superiority that they are willing to compromise constitutional due process,

Fortunate then that none of those conditions are true, and Trump compromises the USA's constitutional values on a daily basis. Ask me for examples... please...

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12-31-2019 , 03:20 PM

neeeel

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,731

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Originally Posted by Mightyboosh

Which doesn't change that Trump is unfit for office. It just means that 60 millions Americans can't see it.

ye, you know better than 60 million americans. They must be just stupid hicks, right?

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Originally Posted by Mightyboosh

Fortunate then that none of those conditions are true, and Trump compromises the USA's constitutional values on a daily basis. Ask me for examples... please...

examples, please

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12-31-2019 , 04:45 PM

BeaucoupFish

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 4,575

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Originally Posted by neeeel

ye, you know better than 60 million americans. They must be just stupid hicks, right?

Well, half the country is below average intelligence by definition. So an average person probably knows better than many more than 60M.

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12-31-2019 , 07:35 PM

neeeel

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,731

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Originally Posted by BeaucoupFish

Well, half the country is below average intelligence by definition. So an average person probably knows better than many more than 60M.

ok, but arent you assuming that the 60 million that are below average all voted for trump?

Also, I dont think even an above average IQ can determine successfully who other people should vote for.

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12-31-2019 , 08:01 PM

#10

BeaucoupFish

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 4,575

Quote:

Originally Posted by neeeel

ok, but arent you assuming that the 60 million that are below average all voted for trump?

No. Most ppl, including the "above average", are politically ignorant and naive. While I consider Obama to have been the easy choice in both 2008 and 2012 (so much so in fact that Santorum's appearance in the Republican primaries finally pushed me to take US citizenship instead of remaining on my green card so I could vote!), you'll find large numbers of voters who voted for him only because there was finally a black presidential candidate.

Political comment sections beneath left wing and right wing are basically indistinguishable, save for the swapping of target ideology labels.

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Originally Posted by neeeel

Also, I dont think even an above average IQ can determine successfully who other people should vote for.

Sure. Perhaps you'd agree that a democracy is a disaster for an ill-informed voting public, and there's a pretty easy argument for having a series of unelected benevolent leaders instead.

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12-31-2019 , 08:03 PM

#11

neeeel

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,731

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeaucoupFish

Sure. Perhaps you'd agree that a democracy is a disaster for an ill-informed voting public, and there's a pretty easy argument for having a series of unelected benevolent leaders instead.

Not sure how you got that from what I said

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01-01-2020 , 04:13 PM

#12

BeaucoupFish

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 4,575

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Originally Posted by neeeel

Not sure how you got that from what I said

I didn't get it from what you said.

It just seems rather obvious to me so I asked whether you'd agree!

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01-02-2020 , 01:53 PM

#13

neeeel

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,731

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeaucoupFish

Sure. Perhaps you'd agree that a democracy is a disaster for an ill-informed voting public, and there's a pretty easy argument for having a series of unelected benevolent leaders instead.

Democracy is a disaster, but it seems to be the "best" disaster we have tried so far. But it has serious flaws, yes.

I dont think unelected benevolent leaders would be a good idea, why would they know any better than an elected leader. How could we rely on them to be benevolent and how would they even know what benevolent meant. Top down imposition of order does not often go well.

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