The mind of a christian conservative...

Skeptical of those who do actual scientific research.

100% believes the word of uneducated goat farmers dead for 2000 years.

Story ****ing checks out.

My comment wasn't a dig at scientific research, but rather a dig at a sentence beginning with "Researchers say..." when it is not followed up with who the researchers were, and how they reached their conclusions.

A rather elitist comment. Goat farmers are incapable of saying intelligent things? By the way, please give us a list of which of the Bible authors were actually goat herders. Not too many. In any case, the Bible writers were writing under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, so their profession isn't relevant anyway.

Please try to be less elitist in the future. And you might want to consider something more creative than the hoary "goat herder" trope.

Elitist...that's rich coming from a hell shamer. Aren't you part of the most elite group there ever was?

Before your reply with "we are all God's children" let me be clear i'm talking abt your religion and not anybody's personal relationship with God which can exist without your good time vibes /end mini derail

Christians are kinda the opposite of an elite group, in that literally anybody can join at any time. Entry into the "group" is not based on any merit on the part of its members. Christians are commanded to share the Good News with others, and ought to be eager to see many come to faith in Christ. Elitists don't typically recruit the masses, for that would diminish any "elite" status.

On another point, Is 'hell shamer" in the early stages of becoming a new atheist trope that I need to become familiar with?

This is nonsense. You are using a very narrow definition of elitist.
Christians hold a very clear view that if you are not in their group you are less than.

You DON'T have morals. You WON'T share the rewards of heaven. etc, etc, etc.

That they want to grow their cult and become the 'one world truth' and thus give a path for all those they look down upon as on the path to damnation by simply joining them in the elite tier that then opens up all the benefits, does not make it not elitist.

Submit to our every rule and you can get in! Anybody can do it, just swear undying fealty to an unseeable sky daddy!

And all this under threat of eternal torment! We're for everyone!

"Less than" what?


Of course non-believers have morals. God gave each of us a conscience. The issue isn't who has morals and who doesn't, but rather whose morals are grounded in something substantial.

True. But everyone CAN share the rewards of heaven. Jesus did all of the "heavy lifting" for us all. Repent and believe. Pretty simple, and definitely NOT elitist.

I am commanded by Jesus to not look down on anyone. I am nothing more than a beggar telling other beggars where to find bread. Everyone in the world is in one of two groups: Forgiven Sinners or Unforgiven Sinners. Please name even one "elitist" group that believes that all of their members are sinners who deserve being thrown into the Lake of Fire for eternity?

How abt you take your stuff to rgt

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Romans 10:9)

Not too many rules, are there?

Nice use of my favourite d2_e4 -ism. Well played, sir!

It's more than a threat.


As an aside, I would like to thank you creating this derail so I can share the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Whatever the mods want to do with this derail is fine with me.

'less than them'. The chosen ones. The anointed. The 'baptised'. An elite group that has benefits no one else gets unless they join.

Right we discussed this.

If you had a despotic godless, philandering man who wanted to be POTUS and do all sorts of horrid things to children and others the best place to build for support for him would be amongst the religious.

They have the least "grounded" morals and are, by the far the most 'for sale' in that regard.

And the more religions, the more fundamentalist, the worse they are in that regard.

And we have recent historical proof of that.


Definitely elitist. He created these perks, these benefits for club admission only. Don't join the club, even if you have no chance to, and you are out.

Membership is a necessity.

The one that believes they are all 'saved' because they joined the club, of course.

I mean you are arguing that if I create an elitist club admitting we are all doomed and bad but if we join my club we are good and saved and thus it cannot be elitist because we said 'PRIOR to joining' we admit we are bad, that just makes no sense.

Right, because as LT just stated upthread, they can literally do ANYTHING they want in this world, no matter what level of evil, so long as they follow the two rules. Repent and believe.

Its very easy to be an evil *******, when at the end of the day you can say you are sorry and get all the benefits afforded to those who go to heaven.

Nice group you got there, LT.

Which is why elitism fits. A man like Epstein can rape children with glee, repent, and believe and get into heaven, and a guy like me can live a chaste life and end up in torment FOR ETERNITY.

What a bunch of bullshit.

But it's pretty much an outfit designed to augment and maintain the ruling top down hierarchies. Any of the downstream stuff aimed at the masses is kinda part of the scam When the leaders are spreading the word etc--they tend to interface with other leaders--even though they may toss in a little showbiz for the flock as well

In that case, pretty much every club/group/organization that anyone can voluntarily join is "elitist". I can only play in rated chess tournaments sponsored by the United States Chess Federation (USCF) if I join the organization. Is the USCF an "elitist" organization?

How many children had "horrid things" happen to them because of Mr. Trump. Unlike the Satan-inspired Democrat Party, at least the GOP opposes slaughtering babies in the womb. (Having said that, I agree that both parties are awful. Overall, in my opinion the GOP are less-awfuller.)

Every group has grifters and those who enrich and enable the grifters. And doing so is in opposition to Christ's teachings. If your claim is that many (most?) so-called Christians are often inconsistent in their actions with the teachings in Christ, we're on the same page.

Citation please.



Kinda describes every voluntary association on the planet. So, by that definition, Christianity is "elitist."


No, I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing the exact opposite of that! I'm a sinner deserving of spending an eternity in the Lake of Fire whether I'm a Christian or not. Christians are not better than anyone; just better off. You can join my elitist cult and enjoy eternal life any time you want.

Please don't forget: An eternity is too long to be wrong!

You're good at ranting. Having said that, by what universal, absolute, knowable standard is Christianity problematic?

I, of course, disagree with the above characterization of Christianity.

But, if your characterization was accurate, what's wrong with any of the above? If we're just evolved pond-scum, then your opinions and my opinions are just so much barf gurgling in our brains and vomiting out of our mouths.

Why should we listen to each other's brain barf?

addendum: Gotta go for now. Will be back tomorrow or Thursday.

Be well, everybody!

Looks like my work here is done.

Hmm weird. I wrote a reply to this. Guess i forgot to submit it.

For me the key would be 'does the group claim to have a lock on what would be considered an elite tier of benefits, for members only'. Do members trumpet 'we have these benefits in this club you do not but you can join us or stay in the lower tier where you will get none of them'.



You really going there? You want to diminish what Trump did in family separation and literally using mental torture on children and families?

Right. The GOP who cares about the baby pre-birth only but then blocks any attempts by democrats to give help and care to the child after birth. That same GOP who cares so little about that child after birth they will support ripping the child crying from a moms arms and making it so they will never reunite.

Great on that GOP that they want to ensure all those babies are born so they can neglect and torture them after. It gives them more fodder.
NO. Not talking about the grifters. I am talking about the every day adherents. Every day evangelicals.

There morals are 'for sale' and despots like Trump know how to purchase them.


You need to see that the more religious someone was the more likely they supported Trump? Really? You are ignorant of that stat?

No. It is the rewards that by definition would make a club elite.

If you state you have the only path to the most valuable rewards on the planet and only you and your group get them that creates a pretty elite club. Arguably the most elite club as no other club has anything that is enticing or rewarding.

HOw you get there is irrelevant.

By your own definition Jeffrey Epstein then could never be part of an elite club as he was a sinner deserving the lake of fire.

But that simply is wrong. What you were prior or at time of joining (sinner or saint) does not mean the club is not elite when you join it.

Hi, Cuepee.

To help this discussion move forward, please give me your definition of elite. I will stipulate in advance that I will agree to use whatever dictionary definition you choose.

Based on whatever dictionary definition that you use, I will then give you my opinion on whether or not I believe that Christianity is "elitist" based on your own freely-chosen dictionary definition.

Thanks.

My definition of an 'elite group' would be 'any group that requires admission which then allows you access to a perceived select and valuable set of benefits that others who are not part of the group cannot access or enjoy'.

With regards to Christianity they not only believe the benefits of membership are 'valuable' but they believe you are literally damned if you don't join. in that regard I cannot even imagine, if you believe that to be true, a more prestigious and elite set of benefits.

I mean hitting 'elite club status' with Delta Airlines lounges gets me free alcohol, and unpaid access but I would say being saved from eternal damnation is a slightly higher perk.

Any way laggy the above is quite a bit of a distraction from the key point I was addressing.


Would you agree or not, that if a Trump like despotic leader appeared tomorrow in America and wanted to grab power to basically dismantle the country and all its protections against tyranny, that, that person would be best to court support amongst religious groups and focus on the Evangelicals the most to build his strongest base of support.

That the religious and especially evangelicals would be the most likely to turn a blind eye to his philandering, his dismantling of gov't, etc.

That it would be much harder to identify any other group whose support and vote you could court while being a clearly despotic character with your tilt towards tyranny so clearly exposed.

I think the blueprint is pretty clear. If you are a hollow, immoral despotic person seeking to grab power and subjugate the system and then people, build a plan around building your base in the religious community and start with Evangelicals.

You?

I suspect that an overwhelming majority of Christians would reject the type of leader that you are describing above. And I would join the majority in their rejection of said person.

By that definition, I agree that Christianity is an elite group. Other elite groups by that definition would be members of the United States Chess Federation, members of Sam's Club, members of CostCo, and maybe a few thousand other organizations.

Glad we got that settled.

addendum: From what dictionary did your definition come from, please?

Depends. What does Costco, etc offer in terms of benefits that others cannot get elsewhere?

also, dictionaries do not really offer definition for word combo's generally. You can probably understand why as the combinations would be near infinite. You can look up elite and you can look 'group' separately and stich together any of the referenced points for either if you want though.


That does not really address my question though. So I would appreciate an answer, if you would.

Fine you think a 'majority' would reject that type of person.

Do you agree that regardless, that group of religious people and the more fundamentalist the better would, COMPARED TO ANY OTHER GROUP, be the best one to target and court and go after to build a base of support if you are a despotic, immoral person seeking to consolidate power and subjugate and harm others?

This group largely will not only support you and gladly turn a blind eye to all your immorality but also do what they can to keep you in power even as your abuses become more evident.


(if you disagree tell me which base of support you think this type of despot would be better to target to achieve power?)