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Christianity in China Christianity in China

09-17-2011 , 08:17 AM
What's happening with religion in China these days besides state oppression? I'm not sure but some are claiming it's on the rise.

Jim Rutz: The 'Megashift' of the Worldwide Church:
http://www.cbn.com/700club/Guests/Bi...utz042805.aspx

Christianity in China:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Christianity


Christian Designs Found in Tomb Stones of Eastern Han Dynasty:

[2002-08-02] Quote: "Studies show that as early as 86 A.D., or the third year under the reign of "Yuanhe" of Eastern Han, Dynasty Christianity entered into China, 550 years earlier than the world accepted time."

http://www.chinaartnetworks.com/news...ws.php?id=1369
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09-19-2011 , 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splendour
What's happening with religion in China these days besides state oppression? I'm not sure but some are claiming it's on the rise.

Jim Rutz: The 'Megashift' of the Worldwide Church:
http://www.cbn.com/700club/Guests/Bi...utz042805.aspx

Christianity in China:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Christianity


Christian Designs Found in Tomb Stones of Eastern Han Dynasty:

[2002-08-02] Quote: "Studies show that as early as 86 A.D., or the third year under the reign of "Yuanhe" of Eastern Han, Dynasty Christianity entered into China, 550 years earlier than the world accepted time."

http://www.chinaartnetworks.com/news...ws.php?id=1369
There's definitely plenty of Christianity in China. But the problem (and it isn't just a problem for Christianity, but for basically all religions) is that the state requires tight registration and regulation of religion, which means there's always the threat of state interference. The most egregious examples of this are things like the way the Chinese government insisted on selecting the Panchen Lama (the successor to the leadership of Tibetan Buddhism) and kidnapped and imprisoned the "real" choice made by the Dalai Lama. There's also the way the Chinese brutally repressed Falun Gong after it became too powerful.

So China's OK with regulated Christianity, but their message is "don't get too powerful or become a threat to the regime, or will put the hammer down". It's outrageous and I say this as an agnostic with no personal stake in the matter.
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09-19-2011 , 04:52 PM
The Chinese government are a bunch of oppressive bastards.

But Christianity in China is another example of the bait-and-switch technique that has worked in developing countries in the past. The Chinese really want freedom, happiness, and prosperity. Along comes a missionary who presents the Religion of the Free World™. The Chinese want to be like us. Next thing you know, they are repeating the preposterous fairy tales, and are praying (to themselves).

It isn't working?

Spoiler:
wtf is wrong with you? You need to have more faith.
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09-20-2011 , 06:13 PM
"The Chinese want to be like us." I doubt it.

The Chinese are a bit like the Japanese. They're both isolationist and selective. They think before they import other cultures en masse.

Admiral Perry had to threaten his way into Japan and the Boxers did their best to kick out all foreign influences. Of course Mao screwed 'em by imbibing communism and now they're manufacturing "Ghost Cities": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X28q1sQb2js
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09-20-2011 , 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splendour
"The Chinese want to be like us." I doubt it.

The Chinese are a bit like the Japanese. They're both isolationist and selective. They think before they import other cultures en masse.

Admiral Perry had to threaten his way into Japan and the Boxers did their best to kick out all foreign influences. Of course Mao screwed 'em by imbibing communism and now they're manufacturing "Ghost Cities": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X28q1sQb2js
Really? When were you there last?
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09-20-2011 , 06:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VP$IP
Really? When were you there last?

When were you?
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09-20-2011 , 06:50 PM
That is what I thought.
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09-20-2011 , 06:54 PM
Observing people doesn't count?

Why did they build The Great Wall? To let people in?
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09-20-2011 , 06:56 PM
They built it because they were told to build it.
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09-20-2011 , 06:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splendour
Observing people doesn't count?

Why did they build The Great Wall? To let people in?
To keep people in
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09-20-2011 , 07:59 PM
VP$IP, the voice of Chinese Christianity.
Spoiler:
brought to you by atheists.org
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09-20-2011 , 08:02 PM
Victims of the old Bait and Switch™.
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09-20-2011 , 08:12 PM
This is all you need to read to know about Splendour and her strange fascination with the Chinese:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/13...ianity-413304/

It always cracks me up, as a Chinese person, to hear a middle age white woman who probably has never stepped foot in China in the past 10 years or talked to more than a handful of Chinese people tell Chinese people about their own country, culture, language, and history.
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09-20-2011 , 08:16 PM
I am not Chinese, but I have been there.

My statements are based on my observations.
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09-20-2011 , 08:24 PM
Wizard-50:

A generally point about no one in particular.

Some people's first criterion in saying something is not whether it's true, but how effective it will be in palming off whatever their job in sales requires them to move. Not to worry however, since if they say it in their usual snidely condescending tone, that makes it alright.
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09-20-2011 , 08:44 PM
icwudt. Anyways sorry for being snide. Converting my previous comment from douche to reasonable:

What is your basis, VP$IP, for your positions of 'what the Chinese want' and 'if prayer is working'? I see now that you've said observation. I'm sure Splendour or others could give the same basis of reason.
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09-20-2011 , 08:56 PM
That wasn't about you, Wiz. Sorry for not being more clear.
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09-20-2011 , 10:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dknightx
This is all you need to read to know about Splendour and her strange fascination with the Chinese:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/13...ianity-413304/

It always cracks me up, as a Chinese person, to hear a middle age white woman who probably has never stepped foot in China in the past 10 years or talked to more than a handful of Chinese people tell Chinese people about their own country, culture, language, and history.
LOL...

If you only knew instead of tendering your assumptions like they are facts.

Chinese are known for their in-group business networking in many parts of the world.

But I guess an American Chinese who doesn't have business contacts wouldn't know.

Last edited by Splendour; 09-20-2011 at 10:34 PM. Reason: typo.
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09-21-2011 , 01:51 AM
The Taiping Rebellion was a massive Christian (or pseudo-Christian depending on your academic persuasion) apocalyptic movement that was one of the largest flowerings of popular Christianity in China. The resulting uprisings, war, and famine resulted in the deaths of about 20 million people. Other attempts at large-scale missionary work during the Qing Period, even when Christianity was relatively unrestricted (prior to the Kangxi Emperor's decrees following the Franciscan-Jesuit controversy), were met with relatively lukewarm reaction. Several Chinese diaspora communities, however, have relatively large Christian populations. Malaysia has a fairly strong contingent of evangelical and Methodist Christians, though they are still a minority to Muslims of Chinese descent in that country.
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09-21-2011 , 09:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turn Prophet
The Taiping Rebellion was a massive Christian (or pseudo-Christian depending on your academic persuasion) apocalyptic movement that was one of the largest flowerings of popular Christianity in China. The resulting uprisings, war, and famine resulted in the deaths of about 20 million people. Other attempts at large-scale missionary work during the Qing Period, even when Christianity was relatively unrestricted (prior to the Kangxi Emperor's decrees following the Franciscan-Jesuit controversy), were met with relatively lukewarm reaction. Several Chinese diaspora communities, however, have relatively large Christian populations. Malaysia has a fairly strong contingent of evangelical and Methodist Christians, though they are still a minority to Muslims of Chinese descent in that country.
The leader of the Taiping Rebellion was a recent Christian convert. But his followers weren't exactly long time converts. It was mostly a peasant Hakka movement as your link explains here:

Ethnic structure of the army

See also: Ethnic minorities in China and List of ethnic groups in China

Ethnically, the Taiping Heavenly Army was formed at the outset largely from these groups: the Hakka (客家; literally means "guest households"), a Han Chinese subgroup, the Cantonese, another Han Chinese subgroup that were the local residents of Guangdong province and the Zhuang (a non-Han ethnic group), which were minority groups as compared to the Han Chinese subgroups that form dominant regional majorities across south China. It is no coincidence that Hong Xiuquan and the other Taiping royals were Hakka.

As a Han sub-group, the Hakka were frequently marginalized economically and politically, having migrated to the regions they inhabit only after other Han groups were already established there. For example, when the Hakka settled in Guangdong and parts of Guangxi, speakers of Yue Chinese (Cantonese) were already the dominant regional Han group there and had been for some time, just as speakers of various dialects of Min are locally dominant in Fujian province. The Hakka settled throughout southern China and beyond, but as latecomers they generally had to establish their communities on rugged, less fertile land scattered on the fringe of the local majority group’s settlements. As their name ("guest households") suggests, the Hakka were generally treated as migrant newcomers, often subject to hostility and derision from local majority Han populations. Consequently, the Hakka, to a greater extent than other Han Chinese, have been historically associated with popular unrest and rebellion.

The other significant ethnic group in the Taiping army were the Zhuang, an indigenous people of Tai origin and China's largest non-Han ethnic minority group. Over the centuries Zhuang communities had been adopting Han Chinese culture. This was possible because Han culture in the region accommodates a great deal of linguistic diversity, so the Zhuang could be absorbed as if the Zhuang language were just another Han Chinese dialect (which it is not). As Zhuang communities were integrating with the Han at different rates, a certain amount of friction between Han and Zhuang was inevitable, with Zhuang unrest on occasion leading to armed uprisings.[18] The second tier of the Taiping army was an ethnic mix that included many Zhuang. Prominent at this level was Shi Dakai, who was half-Hakka, half-Zhuang and spoke both languages fluently, making him quite a rare asset to the Taiping leadership.[citation needed]

In the later stages of the Taiping Rebellion, the number of Han Chinese in the army from Han groups other than the Hakka increased substantially. However, the Hakka and the Zhuang (who constituted as much as 25% of the Taiping Army), as well as other non-Han ethnic minority groups (many of them of Tai origin related to the Zhuang), continued to feature prominently in the rebellion throughout its duration, with virtually no leaders emerging from any Han Chinese group other than the Hakka.
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09-21-2011 , 09:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Concerto
Wizard-50:

A generally point about no one in particular.

Some people's first criterion in saying something is not whether it's true, but how effective it will be in palming off whatever their job in sales requires them to move. Not to worry however, since if they say it in their usual snidely condescending tone, that makes it alright.
You cannot seriously be missing the fact, that this describes you far better than anyone else in this forum?
Is projection really that strong?
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09-21-2011 , 11:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skalf
You cannot seriously be missing the fact, that this describes you far better than anyone else in this forum?
Is projection really that strong?
Concerto makes pronouncements like that with such regularity that l prefer to believe he's a troll than that he's just extremely myopic. I love the way he writes though. The audacity makes me shiver sometimes.
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