I doubt, when the cashier responded to you, they were really thinking "well, all good must come from god, so this person doing good must be religious, and so I had better respond with a god bless you". They were probably just responding with the socially acceptable responses, on automatic, so to speak. As an example of intolerance of atheists, or conservative christian mentality, its not a very good one. Also, as MB points out, how else are they going to respond, except from what they believe?


Its your thinking that is making this a bigger problem than it is.

Maybe it was an opportunity for you to help her see a wider perspective, by saying "thank you, but Im an atheist" and so challenging her beliefs that only christians can do good?


Maybe give some other examples of what is causing you frustration?

Hahah ok it was a bit tongue in cheek, but you seem like a pretty relaxed guy

Hehe, yeah I gathered.

I had a point to my post though, but it was buried fairly deep. I think "nice" (or "kind") refers to something that goes on between two or more people. We can of course decide for ourselves that we are nice or kind, but it really only has value if we are aware of what generally would be considered "nice" or "kind" in a given social setting.

So instead of perhaps being irked that this cashier didn't construe our niceness as "our kind" of niceness, I think we should be glad that it was indeed recognized. Perhaps some other cashiers would have merely considered it a joke (or even arrogant)?

No I'm not, I'm being quite serious. You clearly don't like that someone who believes in an all loving, good god, would associate good with that god, or that they hold the belief in the first place. They have a different world view to you, do you have a good argument for why they shouldn't? That's what I was hoping to get to.

Believe me I feel your frustration mate. Luckily for me though, I'm an atheist in the UK where it isn't as hard to be open about it, it's not a big deal at all most of the time. Heck, if I can add any kind of moral support for you, I will, you're fighting the good fight as far as I'm concerned.

In what ways have you been discriminated against or slandered?

Ha, says the guy who recently told me that I should probably take a break from RGT, and who clearly hadn't noticed that I hadn't been around for most of the first half of this year

I mentioned that I realize she was just trying to be nice. I of course realize that's not literally the thought that was going through her mind at the time. Like I said, it's just an instilled mindset.

And maybe you're right - I probably should politely mention that I'm an atheist when situations like this come up.

As for an example, there are just so many to choose from. The most common one I can think of is the old "well he/she needs jesus" every day in response to some perceived immoral act.

But it's really a combination of things... the one that really gets me is being judged based on "christian values." For example, my fiancee works with kids. Just a few days ago, one of the girls came up to her and said "my mommy said you have a baby but you're not married and that's wrong." Which is particularly frustrating to me because not only are they basically saying we're immoral people, but they're saying this to a child who's too young to even understand that she wasn't supposed to pass that message along, let alone understand why or why not having a baby before marriage would be immoral.

Yeah I have a great deal more sympathy with you over this than I do the OP.

Gandhi said 'be the change you want to see in the world'. You're setting an example just by living the way that you do. Children need to be exposed to 'different' if it's ever going to become 'normal', right?

I'm curious about how to plan to raise your child, what will you do about all the various belief systems? What are the local schools like when it comes to religion?

I know what you mean, but I think you already understand my frustration. If not, you should spend some time in the southern states of the US. In some places, your life is quite literally in danger if you mention that you're an atheist to the wrong people.

Well a couple of years ago I started working for a big insurance company (this year I was able to quit, THANK THE POKER GODS). There was about 9 months of training, so a group of about a dozen of us spent pretty much all day every day together in class, and our workstation cubicles were grouped together as well. I don't even remember what the conversation was, but something about science came up where some people were arguing something based on the belief that the world is 6,000 years old. I was EXTREMELY careful about being respectful, as this was a fortune 50 company, and they're very sensitive about that sort of thing. But anyway, I argued my points from the side of science. Literally THE NEXT DAY I was written up by the next two levels of management for "religious persecution" because a few of my training group had complained about me to management. They said that I was ridiculing them for being Christian, and that I was trying to "convert them to atheism." I was pretty much told that if I didn't bend over and shut up, they'd fire me. From then on, I was ignored by some coworkers, and treated poorly by others.

It seems like you're implying that religious people only do things because they too expect a reward.

"God bless you" can simply mean that since you have done something I approve of, I hope you too get some kindness shown to you, like that of a free meal. It doesn't have to mean that because you have done something I approve of, God will certainly bless you, since the only reason to do good, is for a reward.

I get being upset at the presumptuous nature of such a statement, but you're reading way too much into it.

Well plan A is to move out of here once my bankroll gets above a nice cushion. We could go right now, but that puts a lot of pressure on both of us. I don't want to experience poker under financial pressure. We have a nice liberal, educated beach town picked out. As for our son (His name's Darwin btw, haha) I want him to learn about all religions. We plan on treating Christianity the same way we treat greek mythology and islam - it's important he learns about them objectively. The schools are a big reason why we have to move - there are zero secular private schools (except an awesome Montessori preschool) around here. The public schools aren't an option, they're some of the worst in the nation regardless of how religious the entire staff is.

Isn't "do this for a reward" the entire premise? I was raised Christian, and I distinctly remember something like "he who believes and is baptized shall be SAVED". Sounds a lot like "believe in me OR ELSE" to me.

But anyway, I mentioned in previous posts that the OP had a lot to do with frustration at the time... I'm good now.

Yeah, I caught that it stemmed from your perturbation of religious ideologies.

Even if you know you will get a reward by specifically doing some act of kindness, it doesn't mean that your motive in doing so, is for the reward. It's a mistake to only think this way.

I am still stuck on the premise that paying for a random person in a drive-through is "good". If I was the guy behind you I would just think it is kind of weird. I mean, it is a totally inconsequential amount of money and in no way affects my life or addresses any need that I have.

I wonder seriously if it even happened or is just a made up excuse to rant about religion. Strange OP, without a doubt.

This was my thought too. Its become a "thing",a meme, these random acts of kindness, and its now a cool thing to do , but is it good? I guess you could say that any act of kindness, however random or wierd, is good, but then you are just using the intention of the actor, rather than the outcome, as judgement of good, and whos to say the intention was actually to do good, rather than just to feel better about themselves, or be cool, or whatever.

I guess its supposed to be a " faith in humanity restored" moment for the recipient, but I doubt it really is.

The thought had meandered across my mind too, that perhaps a greater kindness to humanity would to be NOT give your money to the kind of companies that have drive-throughs (I'm assuming it was a McDs, BK, Wendy's, KFC, something like that) because they're horrible, unethical, immoral, greedy entities that generally lessen our quality of life. I struggle to think about anything good to say about them. Literally, can't think of a single thing.

Today I'm going to continue to do good for humanity by not giving my money to any of those companies. You're welcome.

It's definitely a thing. I think it's a stupid thing, but it's a thing nonetheless. And it's not just a religious thing. There even a whole nonprofit built on the idea.

http://www.randomactsofkindness.org/

Random acts of kindness aren't "bad" on their own, but they trick people into thinking they're doing something of value when they really aren't. It is mostly inconsequential stuff to make the giver feel better about themselves and not really about making any difference. (Which is basically what OP ended proving himself to be doing.)

Christians try to use this sometimes as an outreach/evangelism tool. For example, "Pay for the meal for the person behind you, AND give them this business card that has some religious stuff written on it." I find that particular manifestation of low-risk, low-contact evangelism to be some of the least meaningful and least Biblical forms of reaching out to people. (This isn't what OP is talking about, but it's just a way that this type of thing can be taken to another level.)

I think it's pretty clear that OP is just ranting, but I don't doubt that this happened.

"My good deed of the day is to do nothing."

Not a single thing? You don't think there is any value in low cost good tasting food? Sugar, fat, and salt taste good and people's brains light up with pleasure when they taste them. It is a bit like saying I can't think of anything good about sex (outside of procreation). Well the fact that sex is so pleasurable is what is good about it. Same way that the fact that french fries are so pleasurable are what is good about it. Good, that is, if one values human pleasure, which I certainly do.

I'm going to be a downer. You're just not going to succeed. Greek mythology is "over there" in the sense of time and Islam is "over there" in the sense of geography (since you seem to be coming from a place that's pervasively Christian). You're never going to be able to treat Christianity in that way because it's "right here."

It's like when parents say that the want to raise their first child and their second child in exactly the same way. It never actually happens.

Even if it is, and I'm not sure that's the case it'd concern me if the most effective way of restoring someones faith in humanity is buying them a burger.

kinda ironic. I read this thread earlier today and didn't post it but was just thinking "who the **** pays for a random persons's dinner, that seems like really weird charity". Like two hours later my wife calls and tells me a random woman at the airport bought her lunch for her. CAn't say I've ever heard about this until twice in a row.

It's a sign from God. He wants you to buy him a burger.

How exactly would making someone feel good not be objectively good? It actually wasn't that random, anyway. My reasoning behind it was because the woman looked pissed, was leaning on her arm and looking impatient while waiting for her food, and honestly she was driving a really ****ty car that sounded awful. I was hoping the bill would come out to $20, so that it would hopefully go to her family. As it was, it came out to $7 - but just because $7 doesn't make a difference to most of the people on here doesn't mean it's not a big deal to someone.

Also, considering my later concessions about how this wasn't a great jumping off point to rant about the larger bone I have to pick with Christianity, and the conservative Christian town I live in, what would make you think I lied? If I were going to lie, why lie about a $7 gift to a stranger?

WELL how did it make your wife feel?