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Can a Christian Who Prays Tell me Why (please) Can a Christian Who Prays Tell me Why (please)

12-21-2010 , 02:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic
Since you're on this site, I assume you're a poker player. Your first two responses to my last email would label you, in poker parlance, a "level one player." They are questions and statements that have thoroughly been debunked in these forums and all over the world. But I will answer them for you.


me: What evidence? Just because you don't know the answer doesn't mean there is more evidence for God than not.

t_roy: Look around you. There's plenty of evidence for God imo. For example there is evidence that the life did not come about from evolution. If life didn't come about as a result of evolution then the only other answer I can think of is God. It want specifics that will take some research to make sure I can explain it properly. In the end, I believe in God while you choose to believe that a really big explosion made everything. Does that really make me an idiot?

I never claimed that I knew how life began, or what came before The Big Bang. Why are you so afraid to say, "I don't know"? What's wrong with not knowing and trying to figure it out through rational thought without relying on superstitious mumbo jumbo?

When you say there is plenty of evidence for God, are you claiming evidence for the God of the Bible or just an all-purpose Creator? There's a big difference. Is this Creator intelligent or can it be that life began through happenstance? Guess what? I don't know! I'm more than willing to agree that it's very possible that "someone" created the universe, but I will also argue that the possibility of that creator being the Christian God to be as likely as it being Zeus.

By the way, I'd love to see the evidence you can present that life as we know it did not come about through evolution. And if you are really claiming evolution is false, I'm through talking with you.


me: What consistency are you talking about? Even the Gospels are inconsistent with what happened during Jesus' lifetime.

t_roy: How so? The gospels include different information but there is nothing contradictory.

Gospel Contradictions:

1) How many generations were there between Abraham to David? Matthew 1:17 lists fourteen generations. Matthew 1:2 lists thirteen generations.

2) Is Paul lying? In Acts 20:35 Paul told people "to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.'" Since Jesus never made such a biblical statement, isn’t Paul guilty of deception?

3) When did the leper become not a leper? (Matthew 8:13 & 8:14) Jesus healed the leper before visiting the house. (Mark 1:29-30 & 1:40-42) Jesus healed the leper after visiting Simon Peter’s house.

4) Who approached Jesus? (Matthew 8:5-7) The Centurion approached Jesus, beseeching help for a sick servant. (Luke 7:3 & 7:6-7) The Centurion did not approach Jesus. He sent friends and elders of the Jews.

5) Was she dead or just dying? (Matthew 9:18) He asked for help, saying his daughter was already dead. (Luke 8:41-42) Jairus approached Jesus for help, because his daughter was dying.

6) Just what did Jesus instruct them to take? (Matthew 10:10) Jesus instructed them not to take a staff, not to wear sandals. (Mark 6:8-9) Jesus instructed his disciples to wear sandals and take a staff on their journey.

7) When did John find out Jesus was the Messiah? (Matthew 11:2-3) While imprisoned. John the Baptist sent followers to Jesus to inquire if Jesus was the messiah. (Luke 7:18-22) While imprisoned. John the Baptist sent followers to Jesus to inquire if Jesus was the Messiah. (John 1 :29-34,36) John already knew Jesus was the Messiah.

8) Who made the request? (Matthew 20:20-21) Their mother requested that James and John, Zebedee’s children, should sit beside Jesus in his Kingdom. (Mark 10:35-37) James and John, Zebedee’s children, requested that they should sit beside Jesus in his Kingdom.

9) What animals were brought to Jesus? (Matthew 21:2-7) two of the disciples brought Jesus an ass and a colt from the village of Bethphage. (Mark 11:2-7) They brought him only a colt.

10) When did the fig tree hear of its doom? (Matthew 21:17-19) Jesus cursed the fig tree after purging the temple. (Mark 11:14-15 & 20) He cursed it before the purging.

11) When did the fig tree keel? (Matthew 21:9) The fig tree withered immediately. and the disciples registered surprise then and there. (Mark 11:12-14 & 20) The morning after Jesus cursed the fig tree, the disciples noticed it had withered and expressed astonishment.

12) Was John the Baptist Elias? "This is Elias which was to come." Matthew 11:14 "And they asked him, what then? Art thou Elias? And he said I am not." John l:21

13) Who was the father of Joseph? Matthew 1:16 The father of Joseph was Jacob. Luke 3 :23 The father of Joseph was Heli. Christians shall try to LIE and tell you that one is the heritage of Mary and the other Joseph. This is utter ********, the Hebrew and Greek cultures NEVER regarded the bloodline of the mother. They were patriarchal societies which only concerned themselves with paternal lineage.

14) How many generations were there from the Babylon captivity to Christ? Matthew 1:17 Fourteen generations, Matthew 1:12-16 Thirteen generations.

15) Matthew 2:15, 19 & 21-23 The infant Christ was taken into Egypt. Luke 2:22 & 39 The infant Christ was NOT taken to Egypt.

16) Matthew 5:1-2 Christ preached his first sermon on the mount. Luke 6:17 & 20 Christ preached his first sermon in the plain.

17) John was in prison when Jesus went into Galilee. Mark 1:14 John was not in prison when Jesus went into Galilee. John 1:43 & 3:22-24

18) What was the nationality of the woman who besought Jesus? Matthew 15:22 "And behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, Have mercy on me, 0 Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil." Mark 7:26 "The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation, and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter."

19) How many blind men besought Jesus? Matthew 20:30 Two blind men. Luke 18:35-38 Only one blind man.

20) Where did the devil take Jesus first? (Matthew 4:5-8) The Devil took Jesus first to the parapet of the temple, then to a high place to view all the Kingdoms of the world. (Luke 4:5-9) The Devil took Jesus first to a high place to view the kingdoms, then to the parapet of the temple.

21) Can one pray in public? (Matthew 6:5-6) Jesus condemned public prayer. (1 Timothy 2:8) Paul encouraged public prayer.

22) If we decide to do good works, should those works be seen? Matthew 5:16 "Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works." 1 Peter 2:12 "Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that ... they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation." This contradicts: Matthew 6:1-4 "Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them…that thine alms may be in secret." Matthew 23:3-5 "Do not ye after their [Pharisees'] works ... all their works they do for to be seen of men."

23) Who did Jesus tell the Lord’s Prayer to? (Matthew 5:1, 6:9-13 & 7:28) Jesus delivered the Lord’s Prayer during the Sermon on the Mount before the multitudes. (Luke 11:1-4) He delivered it before the disciples alone, and not as part of the Sermon on the Mount.

24) When was Christ crucified? Mark 15:25 "And it was the third hour and they crucified him." John 19:14-15 "And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the sixth hour; and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your king…Shall I crucify your king?" John 19:14-15.

25) The two thieves reviled Christ. (Matthew 27:44 & Mark 15:32) Only one of the thieves reviled Christ. Luke 23:39-40.

26) In 1 Corinthians 1:17 ("For Christ sent me [Paul] not to baptize but to preach the gospel") Paul said Jesus was wrong when he said in Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them…" Clearly one of these people is wrong, either way, it’s a contradiction.

27) When did Satan enter Judas? Satan entered into Judas while at the supper. John 13:27 Satan entered Judas before the supper. Luke 23:3-4 & 7

28) How many women came to the sepulcher? John 20:1 Only one woman went, Mary Magdalene. Matthew 28:1 Mary Magdalene and the "other Mary" (Jesus’ mother) went.

29) Mark 16:2 It was sunrise when the two women went to the sepulcher. John 20:1 It was still dark (before sunrise) when Mary Magdalene went alone to the sepulcher.

30) There were two angels seen by the women at the sepulcher and they were standing up. Luke 24:4 There was only one angel seen and he was sitting down. Mark 28:2-5

31) How many angels were within the sepulcher? John 20:11-12 two, Mark 16:5 one.

32) The Holy Ghost bestowed at Pentecost. Acts 1:5-8 & 2:1-4 The holy Ghost bestowed before Pentecost. John 20:22

33) Where did Jesus first appear to the eleven disciples? In a room in Jerusalem. Luke 24:32-37 On a mountain in Galilee. Matthew 28:15-17

34) Where did Christ ascend from? From Mount Olivet. Acts 1:9-12 From Bethany. Luke 24:50-51

35) Can all sins be forgiven? (Acts 13:39) All sins can be forgiven. Great, I’m happy to know God is so merciful, but wait (Mark 3:29) Cursing or blaspheming the Holy Spirit is unforgivable.

36) The Elijah mystery: (Malachi 4:5) Elijah must return before the final days of the world. (Matthew 11:12-14) Jesus said that John the Baptist was Elijah. (Matthew 17:12- 13) Jesus insists that Elijah has already come, and everyone understood him to mean John the Baptist. (Mark 9:13) Jesus insists that Elijah has already come. (John 1:21) John the Baptist maintained that he was not Elijah.

37) Who purchased the potter’s field? Acts 1:18 The field was purchased by Judas. John 20:1 The potter’s field was purchased by the chief priests.

38) Paul’s attendants heard the miraculous voice and stood speechless. Acts 9:7 Paul’s attendants did not hear the voice and were prostrate. Acts 22:9 & 26:14

39) Who bought the Sepulcher? Jacob, Josh 24:32 Abraham, Acts 7:16

40) Was it lawful for the Jews to put Christ to death? "The Jews answered him, we have a law, and by our law he ought to die." John 19:7 "The Jews therefore said unto him, It is not lawful for us to put any man to death." John 18:31

41) Has anyone ascended up to heaven? Elijah went up to heaven: "And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." 2 Kings 2:11 "No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, even the son of man." John 3:13

42) Is scripture inspired by God? "all scripture is given by inspiration of God." 2 Timothy 3:16 compared to: "But I speak this by permission and not by commandment." 1 Corinthians 7:6 "But to the rest speak I, not the Lord." 1 Corinthians 7:12 "That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord" 2 Corinthians.

***********************************


Is that enough for you?

If the bible is the Word of God, it cannot be anything but perfect. I've just proven that it isn't perfect; therefore, it is not the Word of God.

t_roy, I have studied the bible and considered the question of God thoroughly in my life. Have you? Have you questioned why you believe? Have you studied basic theological dilemmas like The Question of Evil? Have you read other tracts that disagree with the Bible, like Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins? If not, why not? Surely, your faith in God cannot be shaken by mere men.

Question this: Why are you special and I'm not? Am I more evil than you, more sinful? Why does your belief in something you cannot prove (which is the very definition of faith) make you so sure you're right?

Notice, I do not claim God does not exist. I'm just humble enough to admit that I have no idea how the Universe began, where we came from, or what happens when we die.

And neither do you.

I'm done with this discussion. Good luck on your search for truth.
I find it hard to believe that you personally knew these apparent contradictions..... I believe you actually found them in your google research.

Anyway no matter. As I said above these are APPARENT contradictions.

Meaning, that the novice biblical reader, who does not know how to rightly divide the bible and lacks the respect to study the word with due diligence can easily find many apparent contradictions.

So my question to you......

Are you saying that if I can prove you wrong on these counts that you will believe the bible is the Word of God?

Since that is apparently your supposed logic for not believing?
Can a Christian Who Prays Tell me Why (please) Quote
12-21-2010 , 02:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pletho
I find it hard to believe that you personally knew these apparent contradictions..... I believe you actually found them in your google research.

Anyway no matter. As I said above these are APPARENT contradictions.

Meaning, that the novice biblical reader, who does not know how to rightly divide the bible and lacks the respect to study the word with due diligence can easily find many apparent contradictions.

So my question to you......

Are you saying that if I can prove you wrong on these counts that you will believe the bible is the Word of God?

Since that is apparently your supposed logic for not believing?
When I was married to a Christian woman, I went to a two-week Bible seminar for her and studied it intently. I know how you and others can interpret the bible to and twist obvious words into meaning what you want it to mean. How you take the Book of Daniel and compare it with Revelations to prove that incredible predictions have happened and are happening now. It's rife with opaque poetry that could be interpreted to mean many things.

Of course I googled that. It's easier than going through the whole damn thing myself.

And you can't prove me wrong on them with interpretations only you are wise enough to see. And even if there were no contradictions in the reporting of the Gospels, I'd still find it ridiculous to believe the book is the word of God. There's that whole thing about a virgin birth, resurrection from the dead, and so on.

So don't bother. I'm not sure why I do. Neither one of us is going to change the other's mind on this.
Can a Christian Who Prays Tell me Why (please) Quote
12-21-2010 , 03:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic
When I was married to a Christian woman, I went to a two-week Bible seminar for her and studied it intently. I know how you and others can interpret the bible to and twist obvious words into meaning what you want it to mean. How you take the Book of Daniel and compare it with Revelations to prove that incredible predictions have happened and are happening now. It's rife with opaque poetry that could be interpreted to mean many things.

Of course I googled that. It's easier than going through the whole damn thing myself.

And you can't prove me wrong on them with interpretations only you are wise enough to see. And even if there were no contradictions in the reporting of the Gospels, I'd still find it ridiculous to believe the book is the word of God. There's that whole thing about a virgin birth, resurrection from the dead, and so on.

So don't bother. I'm not sure why I do. Neither one of us is going to change the other's mind on this.
I can guarantee that you have never been taught what I woudl teach you, to show you that what you mentioned does not really contradict.

For example: The 14 generations thing.

Mat 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Joseph the husband of Mary is a wrong translation of the word for husband.

The word can be used both ways, a strong man or a husband. This word is used for a father of a household.

So, it should actually read, Joseph the Father of Mary.

According to prophecy the Christ was to be born out of the house of David's genealogy.

What I am saying is this, that Jesus Christs genealogy goes through Mary, because she is of Davids household.

So, the 14 generations are really there in that verse. You would not know this unless you actually studied more than just a casual reading. Most people do not study the greek or hebrew words behind the english words.
Can a Christian Who Prays Tell me Why (please) Quote
12-21-2010 , 03:45 AM
I have a question for anyone who believes god has a plan.

Do you personally believe that praying can change gods plan?

Just putting it out there in case anyone wants to say yes or no is all.

If splendour, pletho or 2009 give me a yes or no answer, I will believe there is a god. I am not joking when i say I am actually praying to him right now that one of you will give me a yes or no answer.
Can a Christian Who Prays Tell me Why (please) Quote
12-21-2010 , 04:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooter
I have a question for anyone who believes god has a plan.

Do you personally believe that praying can change gods plan?

Just putting it out there in case anyone wants to say yes or no is all.

If splendour, pletho or 2009 give me a yes or no answer, I will believe there is a god. I am not joking when i say I am actually praying to him right now that one of you will give me a yes or no answer.
No!
Can a Christian Who Prays Tell me Why (please) Quote
12-21-2010 , 05:06 AM
Thank you so much.
Can a Christian Who Prays Tell me Why (please) Quote
12-21-2010 , 05:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by t_roy
I have come to the conclusion that the Bible is the Word of God.
Your conclusion is based on what evidence..? Just because you made a conclusion does not make your conclusion CORRECT..


Quote:
Originally Posted by t_roy
If you haven't researched the holes in evolution then I suggest you do. Good luck to you.
Can you give examples of "HOLES IN EVOLUTION" please?
Can a Christian Who Prays Tell me Why (please) Quote
12-24-2010 , 02:05 AM
People pray because they hope. And if you aren't hopefull for someone's well being, then u might as well be a monkey. This is coming from an athiest. Might be better if they actually visited more/did something, but whatever.
Can a Christian Who Prays Tell me Why (please) Quote
12-24-2010 , 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gskowal
So even if you are praying for those poor starving children in Africa who are dying every minute and GOD does nothing to change their circumstances you say that he most likely has a "better view of the future" and knows better? I'm not sure how not helping hungry children is any better then helping them... Can there really be any GOOD reason you can think of that makes not helping those children a valid excuse for GOD?
Brother Jerry getting a green light is more important than African children.
Can a Christian Who Prays Tell me Why (please) Quote

      
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