this question was not directed at you as you simply just asked a question, "why pray" and i took that as a genuine question. but obviously you just made this thread to mock people that do believe and pray. maybe you get so defensive in christianity bc just maybe that 1% of you thinks that what if.....what if their right? and maybe what helps you sleep at night after your escapades in thailand, which i have no problem with its your life, is by telling yourself it's nonsense and it can't be true? like you say whatever helps you sleep at night right.

God didn't make you sinful. God made Adam and Eve with free will. They chose to sin thereby corrupting themselves and their offspring. Yes, you deserve eternal torment (me to). You are lucky that God offers you the chance to be saved. It is your choice to make.

All I can do is show you all of the evidence for the Bible being the word of God. There is no one thing that will ever be able to absolutely prove it. There is however a great amount of evidence. Much more evidence than there is to the contrary.

Not in the way you are talking about. There are claims that he does but I don't know if they are true. God had to tell people in Bible times what he wanted them to do. In many cases there was no other way they could know what God wanted him to do. Shortly after Christ God sent the Holy Spirit to believers to help them and guide them through their lives. Once the Bible was written and believers had the Holy Spirit there was no longer a need to say actually talk to someone. Now he reveals his will to us through his word and the Holy Spirit which helps us understand it and apply it to our lives.

Speaking in tongues is evidence that Christ was raised from the dead. The word of God talks about it all over the place. That is one evidence that can be done audibly and you can hear it and when and if you did, you would see that its not just giberrish or jibber jabber.

I know, I know, you will still come up with some reason to not accept this evidence even though it is factual proof, factual proof that the word of God is truth.

I hate to break it to you, but I wasn't there with Adam and Eve. By your logic, Hitler's children should be just as demonized for the sins of their father.

I don't buy it. Babies cannot sin. Period. The concept of Original Sin is so preposterous that it's laughable. How do you people say this clap-trap and keep a straight face?

By the way, Original Sin is not in The Bible. It's a Church-made concept.

Originally Posted by Dominic
All you're saying here is "I don't know." But you choose to call that ignorance "God." I choose to be fine with the fact that I don't know and don't feel the need to create a mystical sky demon who knows and sees all in order to make sense of the universe.

Obviously I can't prove it one way or another but the evidence points towards a God.

What evidence? Just because you don't know the answer doesn't mean there is more evidence for God than not.



I can point to several inconsistencies. And why would consistency have to mean supernatural?

Consistency is supernatural because the things were written by so many different people during different time periods.

What consistency are you talking about? Even the Gospels are inconsistent with what happened during Jesus' lifetime.



same can be said about the Koran and Muhommad, and Harry Potter - so what? It doesn't make those books true.

Granted, but it should add some credibility

Why? The book you're claiming is the word of god claims to have eye-witnesses that claim they saw miracles by Jesus. That really surprises you? Do you have any idea what circular logic is? Is there any evidence - outside of your magic book - that backs up your assertion that it's all true? Any non-biblical writings that back up these supposed eye-witnesses?




Name them, please.

Don't have the verse atm but for one it talks about the world being a like a ball well before anyone actually realized that the world wasn't flat.

What's more likely: That maybe another human being had the completely logical assumption that the Earth was round when he wrote something down, or that God told a writer of the bible the truth? Guess what? Copernicus wasn't actually the first person who postulated the Earth was round - he was only the first that could prove it mathematically.

Okay, now i'm thinking you're leveling me with this. You can't possibly be this ignorant. Events and things in the Bible can certainly be proven false, if by no other reason than the scientific process. We know it is impossible for a man to live inside of a big fish. Yet, the Bible says it happened. That's not proof of it being divine, by the way...no more than the fact that no book has ever mentioned Orcs in literature besides JRR Tolkien makes The Lord of the Rings divine.

Without God's interference a man not be able to live inside a giant fish but if we are believing the Bible then we are assuming that God is all powerful and could allow this to happen.

So once again, your proof that the Bible is the Word of God is...the Bible!




Name ONE archeological discovery that helps prove the Bible is the Word of God. Just because The Great Gatsby takes place during a real period of American history, and in real places, does not make the story true. Similarly, just because certain places in the Bible actually existed does not mean the stories in it actually happened.

There is no archaeological discovery that definitively proves that the Bible is true. There have been several discoveries of cities mentioned in the Bible that were previously thought not to exist and were used as proof that the Bible wasn't true.

Hold on. You just said that a lot of them DID prove the Bible to be true. You're backtracking now. And like I said - what does it prove if a city or two that were named in the Bible actually existed? It proves that the person writing the story knew some geography. Good for him! What it doesn't prove is that the rest of the Bible is true.





Wow. You really need to enroll in a logics course. You're thought process is amazingly faulty. By your logic, what makes the Illiad a mere book and the bible the Word of God?

You misunderstood my statement. Of course it doesn't prove the Bible is the Word of God. Many people ask the question Well how do you know that humans didn't change the Bible after God wrote it? That is my answer to that question.

You gave no answer. You just said I was right and you can't prove the Bible is the Word of God - even though you previously said you could prove it. So again, I ask: WHY do you believe the Bible is the Word of God? What proof do you have? Is this where you say "faith?" If I said I believed an invisible dragon lived in my garage but gave you no proof of that fact, and then I told you, "hey, trust me" - what would you say?

How is believing the Bible is the Word of God any different? Just because you want to believe it to be true, or that it makes sense to you somehow, does not make it any more likely to be true than my dragon.




You showed me no evidence. You claimed there was some, but then you couldn't point to anything to prove your point. And for your last point - that is uttlery laughable and a claim based on no actual proof at all.

And if you can't absolutely prove that the Bible is the Word of God - something that, if it was true, would undoubtedly be the most important writing in the history of mankind - why would you believe it? For something so huge - your eternal soul - why aren't you demanding proof?

I know...."faith," right?

Please define the Holy Spirit.

Wow. You sure are making a lot of unproven leaps of logic there. But if you really have this evidence, why isn't it obvious to the rest of us? If I have to decipher a code only you know, then it really isn't obvious evidence, is it?

But if you have it - post it. I'll listen with an open mind.

I can honestly say, that no one here has given me an answer. Especially you.

Just in case you have forgotten my previous question.

Do you personally believe that praying can change gods plan?

I mean how hard can that be to answer?

Yes or no please.

She'll never answer. Like Pletho, she will throw scripture at you, instead.

Well ok sorry the title should of been.

Why do you pray if you believe god is perfect and so is his plan?

The reason I started this thread is I was having a conversation with an alleged Christian. I say alleged because she has only listed to her mum tell her the bits of the bible her mum liked, has been to church about once in 30 years, and also spends time regular worshiping other faiths.

but will happily tell you she is a devote Christian. BTW as a side note, she is not studying those other religions, she goes there and actually prays to other gods.

Now when we got onto the subject about praying, she said with a big smile, god is perfect he can do no wrong, he has this master plan for all. then she said she prays for things, people, etc basically asking him to change said plan.

When i question her, I got a very confused response, she shrugged it off and took a another piece of pizza from the box and promptly change the subject.

The reason I didn't force the subject more is i feel sorry for her, she doesn't really know what she is talking about and I didn't want to embarrass her at dinner with friends.

So i posted here hoping to find out why someone who thinks god has a plan, thinks he will change it for them, and more importantly why pray if the plan is perfect in the first place, if what god wants is your mum n heaven with him, let her go, don't even pray imo

Once again, I see evidence that it is true. There is no undeniable proof. There is also no proof that the Bible isn't the Word of God. Instead of looking for absolute proof, you should look at the problem with an open mind and see where the evidence leads you.

Since you're on this site, I assume you're a poker player. Your first two responses to my last email would label you, in poker parlance, a "level one player." They are questions and statements that have thoroughly been debunked in these forums and all over the world. But I will answer them for you.


me: What evidence? Just because you don't know the answer doesn't mean there is more evidence for God than not.

t_roy: Look around you. There's plenty of evidence for God imo. For example there is evidence that the life did not come about from evolution. If life didn't come about as a result of evolution then the only other answer I can think of is God. It want specifics that will take some research to make sure I can explain it properly. In the end, I believe in God while you choose to believe that a really big explosion made everything. Does that really make me an idiot?

I never claimed that I knew how life began, or what came before The Big Bang. Why are you so afraid to say, "I don't know"? What's wrong with not knowing and trying to figure it out through rational thought without relying on superstitious mumbo jumbo?

When you say there is plenty of evidence for God, are you claiming evidence for the God of the Bible or just an all-purpose Creator? There's a big difference. Is this Creator intelligent or can it be that life began through happenstance? Guess what? I don't know! I'm more than willing to agree that it's very possible that "someone" created the universe, but I will also argue that the possibility of that creator being the Christian God to be as likely as it being Zeus.

By the way, I'd love to see the evidence you can present that life as we know it did not come about through evolution. And if you are really claiming evolution is false, I'm through talking with you.


me: What consistency are you talking about? Even the Gospels are inconsistent with what happened during Jesus' lifetime.

t_roy: How so? The gospels include different information but there is nothing contradictory.

Gospel Contradictions:

1) How many generations were there between Abraham to David? Matthew 1:17 lists fourteen generations. Matthew 1:2 lists thirteen generations.

2) Is Paul lying? In Acts 20:35 Paul told people "to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.'" Since Jesus never made such a biblical statement, isn’t Paul guilty of deception?

3) When did the leper become not a leper? (Matthew 8:13 & 8:14) Jesus healed the leper before visiting the house. (Mark 1:29-30 & 1:40-42) Jesus healed the leper after visiting Simon Peter’s house.

4) Who approached Jesus? (Matthew 8:5-7) The Centurion approached Jesus, beseeching help for a sick servant. (Luke 7:3 & 7:6-7) The Centurion did not approach Jesus. He sent friends and elders of the Jews.

5) Was she dead or just dying? (Matthew 9:18) He asked for help, saying his daughter was already dead. (Luke 8:41-42) Jairus approached Jesus for help, because his daughter was dying.

6) Just what did Jesus instruct them to take? (Matthew 10:10) Jesus instructed them not to take a staff, not to wear sandals. (Mark 6:8-9) Jesus instructed his disciples to wear sandals and take a staff on their journey.

7) When did John find out Jesus was the Messiah? (Matthew 11:2-3) While imprisoned. John the Baptist sent followers to Jesus to inquire if Jesus was the messiah. (Luke 7:18-22) While imprisoned. John the Baptist sent followers to Jesus to inquire if Jesus was the Messiah. (John 1 :29-34,36) John already knew Jesus was the Messiah.

8) Who made the request? (Matthew 20:20-21) Their mother requested that James and John, Zebedee’s children, should sit beside Jesus in his Kingdom. (Mark 10:35-37) James and John, Zebedee’s children, requested that they should sit beside Jesus in his Kingdom.

9) What animals were brought to Jesus? (Matthew 21:2-7) two of the disciples brought Jesus an ass and a colt from the village of Bethphage. (Mark 11:2-7) They brought him only a colt.

10) When did the fig tree hear of its doom? (Matthew 21:17-19) Jesus cursed the fig tree after purging the temple. (Mark 11:14-15 & 20) He cursed it before the purging.

11) When did the fig tree keel? (Matthew 21:9) The fig tree withered immediately. and the disciples registered surprise then and there. (Mark 11:12-14 & 20) The morning after Jesus cursed the fig tree, the disciples noticed it had withered and expressed astonishment.

12) Was John the Baptist Elias? "This is Elias which was to come." Matthew 11:14 "And they asked him, what then? Art thou Elias? And he said I am not." John l:21

13) Who was the father of Joseph? Matthew 1:16 The father of Joseph was Jacob. Luke 3 :23 The father of Joseph was Heli. Christians shall try to LIE and tell you that one is the heritage of Mary and the other Joseph. This is utter ********, the Hebrew and Greek cultures NEVER regarded the bloodline of the mother. They were patriarchal societies which only concerned themselves with paternal lineage.

14) How many generations were there from the Babylon captivity to Christ? Matthew 1:17 Fourteen generations, Matthew 1:12-16 Thirteen generations.

15) Matthew 2:15, 19 & 21-23 The infant Christ was taken into Egypt. Luke 2:22 & 39 The infant Christ was NOT taken to Egypt.

16) Matthew 5:1-2 Christ preached his first sermon on the mount. Luke 6:17 & 20 Christ preached his first sermon in the plain.

17) John was in prison when Jesus went into Galilee. Mark 1:14 John was not in prison when Jesus went into Galilee. John 1:43 & 3:22-24

18) What was the nationality of the woman who besought Jesus? Matthew 15:22 "And behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, Have mercy on me, 0 Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil." Mark 7:26 "The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation, and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter."

19) How many blind men besought Jesus? Matthew 20:30 Two blind men. Luke 18:35-38 Only one blind man.

20) Where did the devil take Jesus first? (Matthew 4:5-8) The Devil took Jesus first to the parapet of the temple, then to a high place to view all the Kingdoms of the world. (Luke 4:5-9) The Devil took Jesus first to a high place to view the kingdoms, then to the parapet of the temple.

21) Can one pray in public? (Matthew 6:5-6) Jesus condemned public prayer. (1 Timothy 2:8) Paul encouraged public prayer.

22) If we decide to do good works, should those works be seen? Matthew 5:16 "Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works." 1 Peter 2:12 "Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that ... they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation." This contradicts: Matthew 6:1-4 "Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them…that thine alms may be in secret." Matthew 23:3-5 "Do not ye after their [Pharisees'] works ... all their works they do for to be seen of men."

23) Who did Jesus tell the Lord’s Prayer to? (Matthew 5:1, 6:9-13 & 7:28) Jesus delivered the Lord’s Prayer during the Sermon on the Mount before the multitudes. (Luke 11:1-4) He delivered it before the disciples alone, and not as part of the Sermon on the Mount.

24) When was Christ crucified? Mark 15:25 "And it was the third hour and they crucified him." John 19:14-15 "And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the sixth hour; and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your king…Shall I crucify your king?" John 19:14-15.

25) The two thieves reviled Christ. (Matthew 27:44 & Mark 15:32) Only one of the thieves reviled Christ. Luke 23:39-40.

26) In 1 Corinthians 1:17 ("For Christ sent me [Paul] not to baptize but to preach the gospel") Paul said Jesus was wrong when he said in Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them…" Clearly one of these people is wrong, either way, it’s a contradiction.

27) When did Satan enter Judas? Satan entered into Judas while at the supper. John 13:27 Satan entered Judas before the supper. Luke 23:3-4 & 7

28) How many women came to the sepulcher? John 20:1 Only one woman went, Mary Magdalene. Matthew 28:1 Mary Magdalene and the "other Mary" (Jesus’ mother) went.

29) Mark 16:2 It was sunrise when the two women went to the sepulcher. John 20:1 It was still dark (before sunrise) when Mary Magdalene went alone to the sepulcher.

30) There were two angels seen by the women at the sepulcher and they were standing up. Luke 24:4 There was only one angel seen and he was sitting down. Mark 28:2-5

31) How many angels were within the sepulcher? John 20:11-12 two, Mark 16:5 one.

32) The Holy Ghost bestowed at Pentecost. Acts 1:5-8 & 2:1-4 The holy Ghost bestowed before Pentecost. John 20:22

33) Where did Jesus first appear to the eleven disciples? In a room in Jerusalem. Luke 24:32-37 On a mountain in Galilee. Matthew 28:15-17

34) Where did Christ ascend from? From Mount Olivet. Acts 1:9-12 From Bethany. Luke 24:50-51

35) Can all sins be forgiven? (Acts 13:39) All sins can be forgiven. Great, I’m happy to know God is so merciful, but wait (Mark 3:29) Cursing or blaspheming the Holy Spirit is unforgivable.

36) The Elijah mystery: (Malachi 4:5) Elijah must return before the final days of the world. (Matthew 11:12-14) Jesus said that John the Baptist was Elijah. (Matthew 17:12- 13) Jesus insists that Elijah has already come, and everyone understood him to mean John the Baptist. (Mark 9:13) Jesus insists that Elijah has already come. (John 1:21) John the Baptist maintained that he was not Elijah.

37) Who purchased the potter’s field? Acts 1:18 The field was purchased by Judas. John 20:1 The potter’s field was purchased by the chief priests.

38) Paul’s attendants heard the miraculous voice and stood speechless. Acts 9:7 Paul’s attendants did not hear the voice and were prostrate. Acts 22:9 & 26:14

39) Who bought the Sepulcher? Jacob, Josh 24:32 Abraham, Acts 7:16

40) Was it lawful for the Jews to put Christ to death? "The Jews answered him, we have a law, and by our law he ought to die." John 19:7 "The Jews therefore said unto him, It is not lawful for us to put any man to death." John 18:31

41) Has anyone ascended up to heaven? Elijah went up to heaven: "And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." 2 Kings 2:11 "No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, even the son of man." John 3:13

42) Is scripture inspired by God? "all scripture is given by inspiration of God." 2 Timothy 3:16 compared to: "But I speak this by permission and not by commandment." 1 Corinthians 7:6 "But to the rest speak I, not the Lord." 1 Corinthians 7:12 "That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord" 2 Corinthians.

***********************************


Is that enough for you?

If the bible is the Word of God, it cannot be anything but perfect. I've just proven that it isn't perfect; therefore, it is not the Word of God.

t_roy, I have studied the bible and considered the question of God thoroughly in my life. Have you? Have you questioned why you believe? Have you studied basic theological dilemmas like The Question of Evil? Have you read other tracts that disagree with the Bible, like Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins? If not, why not? Surely, your faith in God cannot be shaken by mere men.

Question this: Why are you special and I'm not? Am I more evil than you, more sinful? Why does your belief in something you cannot prove (which is the very definition of faith) make you so sure you're right?

Notice, I do not claim God does not exist. I'm just humble enough to admit that I have no idea how the Universe began, where we came from, or what happens when we die.

And neither do you.

I'm done with this discussion. Good luck on your search for truth.

Very well then. I don't see why you immediately dismiss the Bible as superstition but whatever. Just to let you know, I have questioned my faith and looked at other theories. I have thought about most of the popular theological dilemmas. I would hope that my answers at least show that. I have come to the conclusion that the Bible is the Word of God. BTW, If you haven't researched the holes in evolution then I suggest you do. Good luck to you.

nice poast

Your either ors dont work because a God, if there is one, could of created the big bang and evolution.

Ok sorry. For the statement you're referring to I guess it should be more like. "Either the big bang and evolution happened on it's own or God created everything (possibly via big bang/ evolution)."

Yeah that works better. Though i think happened on it's own can be debated, but id rather not.

t_roy,
If you don't approve of either the big bang theory or the theory of evolution, then which theories do you buy?

gravity is just a theory, imo

and its all gone quiet by those who cant answer a yes or no question.

I think your new question which i believe is "Do you personally believe that praying can change gods plan?" has been eloquently responded to in post # 25. I have a question for you now...Creationism or evolution?

Seriously? Do a search in this forum and you'll see plenty of discussion. Of course, to all non-delusional and properly thinking individuals, that's sort of like asking, "The Sun: big ball of hydrogen and helium, or giant dragon in the sky that belches fire?"

I like the way you send me to another persons post, lol.

2009 can you please answer yes or no to my new question.

Do you personally believe that praying can change gods plan?

Evolution.


But how did evolution create the earth.....oh no you have proved to me god exists!!!