I'm kind of short on time today to respond to each bullet but God's will takes 2 forms: the Thelema and the Boulema.

Dr. Jones explains the difference in his chapter on Predestination and Election. Its newly acquired knowledge to me so I'll let him explain it to you since he's a biblical scholar.

Predestination and Election by Dr. Stephen E. Jones
http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.o.../Chapter11.cfm

I could easily be wrong but isn't it Joseph not Mary who was supposedly of the 'davidic line' meaning that Jesus was not as Joseph is not the father. If Mary was a virgin then it really does not matter who Joseph is decended from none of his DNA went in to creating Jesus. Also I think the 'davidic line is traced through males? This is an unreliable method as you never know if one of the line wasn't really the one that got the mother of the next pregnant

Per J. Gresham Machen who looks at the geneaology problem both the Luke and Matthew genealogical accounts are through Joseph. He thinks the book of Matthew traces the successive heirs to the throne of David from David to Joseph while the book of Luke traces David's actual physical descendants.

If you think about it Jesus birth isn't about a physical birth only. It's about a spiritual birth. He's born from above. Mary was "overshadowed". Abraham was overshadowed in Genesis 15:12 and Isaac was the person from whose loins "God's servant people" came from.

This maybe the best post to answer your question pooter. I could not have articulated it any better than this person.

This in no way answers the issue of Joseph being irrelevant in the jesus lineage as he isnt the father physically or spiritually (mary gave birth having not known a mans touch). Can you tell me (or suggest any reasons ) why the lineage of Joseph matters at all to Jesus and his birth?

It could be the virgin birth was a later addition to the story to elevate Jesus from prophet to son of God to give him more authority and that originally Joseph was his biological dad and passed his genes to him that he may have got from David. This would also help explain why not all the stories of the life of Jesus include the virgin birth after all it would be a pretty big thing to miss out in the story.

It's prophetic. Many prophecies state how Jesus Christ will be born into the world and how could Jesus have controlled that? You can check the prophets' words against the Gospels' accounts.

It's also significant theologically because while most of the world is hung up on Justification spurred by the free will choice debate other greater doctrines like the Doctrine of Adoption are neglected.

Joseph adopted Jesus Christ just like Christians are adopted through Jesus Christ. That's why we have all the fruits of the spirit to adopt as our way of life to learn to have a new life that remakes us in the image of our father in heaven. That's one way you can know the nature of God. He asks that we be Christlike. Christ is the uncorrupted image of God.

You still havent answered in any way why you think that Josephs lineage back to David is in anyway significant to Jesus? It doesnt matter that Joseph adopted Jesus that still doesnt mean that Jesus is of the line of davids decendants. Had the Davidic line been wiped out it would have stopped the birth of Joseph but not Jesus, Mary would still have been alive to be impregnated.

I havent checked the prophecies but if they say that the messiah will be born of the davidic line and a virgin then it wasnt jesus, you would need a female decendant of david for the virgin birth of the messiah.

It's a way of tracing Jesus to establish his right to the throne as prophesied. Mary is just a vessel. Mary's genes wouldn't have been needed to produce Jesus. Think of Mary as a surrogate mother.

Think of the term "children of God". This term has always caused confusion. Who are the children of God? I thought long and hard on this one...it took me years to figure it out but I think the answer is that everyone is the child of God. It's just some are legitimate children through adoption and some are the illegitimate children because they haven't gone through the adoption process and don't think they have to observe the laws of God.

Third Day: Children of God
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9RqVRBtjM4

Splendour, lol.. what a great story...

It's a profound story. When you're illegitimate you act like a Son of Satan (or the rest of the unbelieving world). It's just that people don't think deeply enough about biblical doctrines that they fail to understand that unbelievers aren't the devil's children they are just illegitimate. They haven't went through the legal process of adoption offered them by God and reserve for themselves those aspects of God's law they will agree with instead of observing it all.

What shocks believers the most is the little respect given to holy matters. Its the irreverence and the meanness that makes you look like you are of a different nature entirely.

The children of God are suppose to look and act like God's children. A lot of children are epic fails right now so it's not surprising you wouldn't know what a real child of God is like. You may not have ever seen one what with the cultural/spiritual war upsetting so many of God's children. You need to read the bible on a daily basis then see those people sincerely trying to observe God's rules. Those are the legitimate children. There are all shades to them however...they are all works in progress...sometimes the process gets interrupted for a while before they get back on track unless they don't recover from a backslide....

Why does God need one of Mary's genes?

How do you think you'd get to Heaven if God had to use one of her genes?

You need divine help to get to heaven. We're overcoming the flesh in this world...the flesh doesn't get us to heaven.

I don't even feel like replying to any of this nonsense...

Good, don't. You may not have a good enough bible education to understand it so just absorb it.

You weren't raised Christian or from a Christian country are you?

lol.. you make too many assumptions .. but since i love to prove you wrong i`ll tell you my background...

I come from a country that is 95% Catholic(and I was raised as one, attending church every Sunday and every holiday), I was forced to study bible in school since age 8 till age 16 when I moved to US. And even when I escaped that school I ended up having to take 3 semesters of theology classes in the university I studied. So I know the bible much better then an average person... so don't tell me I have not good enough of an education to understand your silly book...

The bolded part is interesting. Basically Jesus is traced through Joseph to fullfill the prophesy even though Jesus isnt really of Josephs lineage and so has no right to the throne as prophesised? Seems like we are trying to fit things to the outcome we desire (Jesus fulfilling the prophecy). If Jesus was born of a virgin he wasnt born of Joseph and so isnt of the line david so doesnt fulfill the prophesy surely?

You ought to read that link I put in the GIA thread then about Luther and Erasmus's debate where Luther says illumination is from the Spirit.

You can go to school all you want. Illumination comes from the Spirit. You can only get so far in the bible until you accept and realize that the Spirit of God is working in you to increase your understanding. Of course you had to accept the Spirit first which you do in Romans 10:9 then you need to do a Psalm 1 and meditate and work long and hard to understand the scriptures. It does help though if you get some older and wiser heads to read and refer to that have the experience to act as a sort of guide.

Yeah cause reading the bible doesn't do anything.. until someone out there turns a switch in my brain and makes me understand it.. NO, no, traditional studying of the subject and it's books is useless , it is good for everything else except the bible? lol..

It seems like you haven't taken things back far enough. The Hebrews are God's Chosen people. God decides who sits on their throne even though at one time he let them elect Saul.

God is the owner of the Earth and everything created from the Earth and that includes people who came from the dust. That means he can set anyone on the Davidic throne that he wants but since he had said through the prophets since the time of Moses who that person would be the only person it could be was Jesus. God keeps his Word.

yup , delusion..

nope... bible shows he doesn't...

If you don't think there's a difference between studying it and living it what can I say.

It's night and day.

It's like going to an ice cream parlour and looking at the ice cream or tasting it.

Which person do you think has a better knowledge about the ice cream?

Psalm 34:8 "Taste and see that the LORD is good; blessed is the one who takes refuge in him."

Whole Psalm here:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...34&version=NIV

Baseless claims are so persuasive.

So did you do the same to the hundreds of other religions? did you live those lives? No? then , there you go,according to your logic you know nothing of them and you actually don't know what you are missing.. Until you fully devote yourself to RA you won't understand that he is real...

Again... you make no sense as always...

You clearly didn't read the bible and absorb it.

Huge portions of the OT is about not paying attention to other gods.

Jesus reiterates the Shema in the NT.

How is God going to do a work in your soul if you won't pay attention to him but chase after other gods?

How will you ever know God's way when you are mixing in the pagan's way?

We've seen a lot of problems in Catholic church history from them indiscriminately absorbing pagans. You can't just decree someone a Catholic or Christian they have to decide to be one first. They leavened the Catholic church with paganism because they absorbed everyone too fast.

lol... Oh so the bible tells me so and i should take it as the truth... Bible tells me do not pay any attention to other gods and right away all other religions are PWNED!!! this shows your lack of logic...


Aha the same thing can be claimed by any other religion.. they will tell you the same.. don't pay attention to the Christian GOD , forget about him, he is not real. Unless you pay full attention to RA , he won't be able to do work in your soul... so don't chase Christian GOD... chase RA GOD...

btw, give me a reason why should I take the bible as the real book from GOD and other holy books as fake?