I can think of one good reason A Christian or person of another faith would pray.

Your loved one has had a bad accident and is in hospital fighting for his/her life, you pray to god that they will survive.

Could you please give me some other example of when you pray and for what etc..

When I wake up, when I eat breakfast, when I drive to work, when I get to work, when I take a break, when I have lunch, when I finish lunch, when I take a break, when I drive home, when I get home, when I eat dinner, when I am with my family, when I go to bed. And what do I pray for...I pray thanks that I made it to that point. I pray thanks for what God has done for me in my life. I ask for continued guidance. I pray for those that I have encountered, by name if I can remember them or have them written down. I pray for my church, I pray for my family. And sometimes, more often than not, my prayers are simply me talking to God, just as I am 'talking' to you now.

im not as hardcore as the person above but times ive really prayed and felt like God helped are times such as when studying for my leaving cert (basically the biggest and most important exams u can do in ireland dunno what the american equivelant is) to help me study the right things that will come up. this is probably the most ive prayed and i really felt it worked.

I pray to be absolutely surrendered so I can be more easily molded by God for whatever purposes he deems fit. This is my current prayer among many other petitions I make for various reasons.

(Just as an interesting aside. Reading a chapter in my book on the Dead Sea Scrolls by Craig A. Evans (he has 2 chapters devoted to the Essenes) he mentions that the Essenes prayed before (like the Christians) and after (like the ancient Hebrews) every meal. For some reason I found that significant.

But most people know its a very old Christian custom to say "grace." If you read Deuteronomy though the ancient Hebrews are instructed to thank God after eating a meal. I don't know if Jews still today say thanks after the meal or not. Perhaps a Jew will chime in and tell me what their custom is on praying over meals today.

Thanking God for the food on the plate seems a little misdirected, the food came from (the sometimes backbreaking) labour of underpaid workers.

If I made a website for someone they wouldn't thank God for the website they would thank me. It's still a tradable commodity.

Is thanking God for food actually misdirected acknowledgement of people being worse of than you?

OK so my next question is:

What if your prayer goes unanswered?

So if you pray for that loved one, or the strength to make it through an exam or whatever, what do you think or feel if it goes unanswered?

Thanks for the replies so far.

Thanks for typing all of that, but I was thinking of praying more in terms of asking for one specific thing, like the saving of a loved one or something similar. You say, when you wake up.. when you eat breakfast, how are these actual prayers? I am not saying they are not, i am jsut wondering what you say, think or whatever.

The main reason to pray is actually to establish a connection to God. It's a key method in the character shaping process.

If a prayer goes unanswered I chock it up to the will of God. God has a better view of the future and the needs of the individual then I do so I really don't blame him for any answers.

If you're a work in progress obviously God has to mold the clay (mold the individual being prayed for in a certain way) so he's not going to necessarily conform to what I wish for an individual so what I wish for becomes a lot less important. We have to become less to let Him increase. He already knows better than any human will ever know.

Andrew Murray has a writing on Absolute Surrender that goes into this critical Christian topic that you most likely haven't heard in Church just sensed it through the sermons or church practices, etc. It'd help if the churchs would teach on it more specifically but they usually only obliquely talk about it so you have to learn about it through trial and error.

Murray's Absolute Surrender
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/murray/surrender.toc.html

I think they are to busy with running the banks and trying to take over the world to pray.

Splendor said it best. Praying is not simply for asking for things. When one goes to prayer simply asking things, it is selfish and more than like your answer is going to be "no". The typing was to emphasis that I pray daily and never cease. Prayer is a communication with God, as Splendor had mentioned. So I hope that at all times I am giving him thanks for getting me home on time, making it through a stop light (while it is green and not catching me), for all the little things that go on in my life.

As to unanswered prayers. There are none, when God is concerned. You may simply get 'no' for an answer, or 'not yet' may be it as well.

In the model of a prayer that Jesus provides in Matthew chapter 6 we see that Jesus asks of God only 2 things. "Give us our daily breads" which is asking for only what we need, which is what is promised and seen in Philippians 4:19 "And my God will supply all your needs according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus." This is not our 'wants' but simply our needs. Jesus also says "forgive us our trespasses" which is also something promised that if we seek forgiveness in God, He will give it. 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. "

I hope that helps.

I can tell you that when I used to be a Catholic believer I prayed because I thought my prayers would be answered.. It felt comforting that maybe something I ask for can happen and that someone is out there listening and going to help me.. Im not going to lie , some prayers did come true, but it proves nothing. Like George Carlin said you can pray to Joe Pesci and some prayers will also be answered. At the end, all the prayers that were the most important to me never came true, but some of those that had a chance of happening on its own did come true. Basically pure chance...

So even if you are praying for those poor starving children in Africa who are dying every minute and GOD does nothing to change their circumstances you say that he most likely has a "better view of the future" and knows better? I'm not sure how not helping hungry children is any better then helping them... Can there really be any GOOD reason you can think of that makes not helping those children a valid excuse for GOD?

The Christian prayer is "not my will but thy will be done". In this "prayer" Man attempts to find his way in life and come to an expression of self in this world as cosmic fact. The ennoblement of one's self, not by surrender, but by conscious selfless activity in Love and Freedom is a work of the considered Christian.

Another perspective is that one "speaks" to the realms of a cosmic spirituality, those of the living dead and hierarchical beings in which the human being, on earth, is ensconced.

The Christian prayer is not about "asking" for victory in war, or curing of one's illness but the selfless sacrifice and giving of one's self to others as in Christ.

An example would be better: if one prays to the dead then holding a picture of the deceased in your mind and reading great tomes( an example is the Gospel of John) to the dead will establish a connection to the departed one. The dead would like to be aware of the earth and through those who"pray" to them they are edified. they are affected by the earth as we are affected by the spiritual worlds (not quite comprehensible now days).

The dead are aware of "warmth and cold, which is fluctuant " throughout the heavenly host and welcome the selfless prayer of the devotional " may my love come to you that it may mitigate your warmth and warm your cold".

"Prayers to the dead" are part and parcel of historical and future man as evidenced by the Catholic Church's "prayers for the dead" and certainly other religious systems. Ancient examples are also the Tibetan "Book of the Dead" and the Egyptian "Book of the Dead". They were certainly speaking to the dead, gentlemen and ladies, and they weren't delusional.

If you made a website for me I would thank both you and God whether or not its a tradeable commodity.

Thanking god at meals is a ritual but rituals have symbolic meanings and I think it encourages attitudinal development and relationships. There's a lot of feast history in the bible and in my mind meals are connected to those feasts and to communion. Though I haven't spent nearly enough time on learning feast symbolism as there is a lot of material on them to cover. I've only read Booker's book on the feasts and seen a medley of information from one or two other other authors in passing. There's a lot to absorb on them and a lot of details to keep track of.

I'm not sure about your last question. But I think its situationally dependent. If you read Deuteronomy 6 you'll see God stating that situations we find ourselves in affect our attitudes. He tells the Israelites now that he's given them everything to remember him. I think he's implying that in good times, easy times or times of plenty it is easy for people to forget what he's done for them.

Yeah, I`ll never forget how he murdered millions of innocent people and how he also sent those two bears to kill those poor kids who were making fun of the bold guy...

They weren't kids. They were most likely of Army recruiting age and this is a tangent but if you want to spend time on it we've done the thread before at least once with an old MB thread you can find here:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/13...s-olds-732453/

EVEN if i accept your story and agree that they were not kids, how does this change a fact that GOD decided to kill humans because they were making fun of someone... lol you think that's a correct response by god?

God's already put time limits on our life span. A lot of people get caught up in individual incidents in the OT because superficially the OT can look very violent and depraved but the fact is we are already all under a death sentence. If you read Dr. Jones he explains the OT is telling mankind what doesn't work. People are personally ineffectual they cannot save themselves by their own efforts (works).

There is a plan God is working out but we can't always see clearly every stage and of course some theologians have different theories on it. Some say dispensationalism which I'm weak on is a flawed explanation of the various stages of God's plan.

But clearly there's a lot of spiritual warfare in the OT and the Elisha bear incident was in a dark time of the bible. The book of Judges is a dark time in the bible.

In one OT incident the prophets were forced to hide in caves. Savage acts against the prophets occurred a lot. They were tossed down wells, sawn in half, stoned, etc. If you read up on Obadiah at one point they had a hundred prophets hiding in caves under the evil rule of Ahab and Jezebel.

It took Jesus' death on the cross and his resurrection for us to have the Spirit made available to us and we might not have got it if certain OT people had been successful. If you read up on Queen Athaliah the Davidic line narrowly escaped being wiped out which is the line that was to lead to Jesus Christ.

Instead of getting hung up on individual incidents try to see the big picture as a plan that God is working out in stages. It's not a plan that advances without a conflict. There's always a new and different "conflict" cropping up trying to derail God's plan of salvation for the world.

OK so let me put this in context of something that happened a few years back.

My great aunt is a full on god loving/fearing woman.

Here sister was in a very bad car crash after a drink driver jumped red lights and hit her car in the side, as a result she ended up in intensive care with about a 10% chance of pulling through.

Now my auntie sat at her side for days on end praying that she would survive, praying to god that her sister would make it.

However sadly she died. My aunts next step was to make peace with herself by saying things like, "She is with god now, thats what he (god) wanted.

This is all part of gods plan. We can not begin to question god. (gods plan).

So at this point I have some questions. If god is perfect and has a master, perfect plan for each and every one of us, why pray at all? (in this sense of asking for things) if gods plan is for her to die, then she will, if it is for her to survive she will. Praying in this sense then is more akin to begging. God has put the plan in motion, now you are begging him for an outcome that was planned, to be changed, if not then why pray, what will be will be.

So now she has come to peace knowing it was all part of gods perfect, great plan. And she wouldn't have the audacity to even question god, or try to understand why god does what he does.

However in her next breath, she wants this drunk driver, prosecuted to the full extent of the law, he should be punished. Why? He was all part of gods plan, wasn't he? he was part of the perfect plan that the great flawless creator put in place. She is with god now, what god wanted because of this man, because god wanted him to do that so she could pass on and be with god?

anyone???

A deity having a plan for someone contradicts their personal freedom, and distances people from the responsibilities of their actions.

To say "Person A" died because it was the great plan, and "Person B was drunk and stupid it's his fault" seems pick and choosy to me. So there lies a contradiction.

If both people did it because it was the plan, then Person B could be justified in saying that it's not their fault.

The simplest answer to your case (and I'm sorry to hear it, perhaps lack of response is because people are cautious about commenting on serious life events that could hurt/offend you) is that, Person B was idiotically drunk, and Person A happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and was a victim.

However, during times of extreme visceral grief people are more inclined and likely to outwardly amplify their irrational beliefs, and use such constructs as coping mechanisms. This is rarely ever the time to ever query their beliefs and morality.

The simplicity of the tragedy sometimes is too much to bear, and for a life to heal truth and reason sometimes take the sidelines.

That contradicts the Free will.. You guys need to decide whether we got a free will or is everything already predetermined by God's plan. And if he has a plan then this is one terrible plan, he must have been drunk when he planned it out..


It does not just look very violent , it is very violent. So you are claiming that GOD is one evil being?


So basically GOD designed machines with a plan.. We don't have a free will , you are saying?


So God decided to create dark time? What was he depressed about? His wife left him?

But isn't it all GOD's plan? If so then it would have been his plan for those "bad" people to had been successful... Your story like story of other theists just does not make sense.. You guys contradict yourself in almost every sentence..


Pretty ****** plan I tell you. Sounds like your god isn't omniscient... Individual incidents also matter...

That is another reason why I don't believe in GOD... If god is omniscient then he created a perfect plan(which goes against the free will), if the plan is perfect then your prayer won't work if it goes against his plan, then question yourself why would god ever think that all those deaths of innocent people are part of a perfect plan? How can you call this a perfect plan when it appears as if there is no plan at all. People get into random accidents and circumstances, some make it , some don't.. Your chances of a better life are much higher if you are born in America then in Ethiopia. Why would good not give everyone an equal chance ? And then supposedly he wants to judge us all equally? It all makes no sense...

Condolences. You know a plan isn't something set in stone. According to the grand plan only experts should win at poker and when they do we say it is according to plan, but sometimes a donk wins the WSOP ME. Sometimes KK beats AA.

I am new to this forum but I will give my two cents as someone who has been a Christian for all of my young life (with times of varying levels of commitment). There have been times in my life when both prayer has given me an intimate connection with God and times when I have questioned the power of my prayers.

To your initial question of 'why pray'...the answer to this should be because I love God and want to be as close to him as possible. My prayer life has been at its strongest in times where I am able to listen to God and not just tell him what I want. However in reality I am spiritually weak and often times find myself praying only when I want something from God. As Christians, we do have the power to petition God...however oftentimes I find myself asking for God's will, but only if that will is something that will benefit me, haha. God definitely hears all prayers, however I do believe that the prayers of someone who is searching actively for God's will and walking with Him have more power than the prayers of someone who is only coming to Him in a time of desperation or when they want something (I can say this because I have been on both sides of the equation).

Sometimes like in the tragedy you described the best thing we can do is pray for peace and understanding. I have seen God step out in amazing ways (eg medical miracles) that I believe have been a direct result of people's prayers. However I have seen many God-fearing people suffer extreme tragedy that is hard to understand. I will say this...I understand prayer the more I practice it...but it is with great humility that I don't think I will ever fully grasp why God chooses to directly intercede for some and more indirectly for others.

One other point that I think is huge that not all Christians will agree with but I am confident in...God does not WILL tragedy. God does not will the horrible things that go on in the world...this world is fallen, it is a product of our fallen humanity. And while God CAN use everything for His ultimate good...there are things that people suffer that breaks God's heart. If God interceded in every bad situation then He would be taking away free will, which is a central part of the Christian faith.

I speak as someone who admitedly does not have it all figured out, but the more I pray I feel the closer I get. Hope this helps in your search OP, and feel free to PM me if you have other questions