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Buddhism and The West Buddhism and The West

07-30-2011 , 04:41 PM
All of those were post-Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Jeebus was already dead. Funny he didn't mention it himself if it were that important.
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07-30-2011 , 04:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentucky Buddha
All of those were post-Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Jeebus was already dead. Funny he didn't mention it himself if it were that important.
Um, your quote stated that the New Testament doesn't mention
homosexuality.

You are 100% wrong as I said before, and am now stating again.

Admit it.
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07-30-2011 , 04:56 PM
Romans seems a good reference. Timothy isn't in the King James like that at all, and Jude is just right out because of vagueness.

But, sure I will gladly concede it is mentioned at least the once no matter what translation you use... as long as you can concede Jebus said nothing whatsoever about it himself in any translation. It is not a key teaching to be sure, I am sure you will agree. If it was, why didn't it come up when jeebus was getting grilled by the pharisees?

Last edited by Kentucky Buddha; 07-30-2011 at 05:01 PM.
Buddhism and The West Quote
07-30-2011 , 05:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentucky Buddha
Romans seems a good reference. Timothy isn't in the King James like that at all, and Jude is just right out because of vagueness.

But, sure I will gladly concede it is mentioned at least the once no matter what translation you use... as long as you can concede Jebus said nothing whatsoever about it himself in any translation. It is not a key teaching to be sure, I am sure you will agree. If it was, why didn't it come up when jeebus was getting grilled by the pharisees?
Are you in 2nd grade? Do you get a childish kick out of misspelling
the name Jesus?

Jesus clearly defines marriage as between a male and a female
in Matthew 19, not sure how much clearer this can be?

And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ “and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh?’” (Matt. 19:4.)

By the way, the Bible wasn't written in KJV, somehow I think you
know that.
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07-30-2011 , 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by festeringZit
Are you in 2nd grade? Do you get a childish kick out of misspelling
the name Jesus?

Jesus clearly defines marriage as between a male and a female
in Matthew 19, not sure how much clearer this can be?

And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ “and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh?’” (Matt. 19:4.)

By the way, the Bible wasn't written in KJV, somehow I think you
know that.
Jesus advocating a man marrying a woman isn't the same thing as him condemning man/man woman/woman marriages though, right?
Buddhism and The West Quote
07-30-2011 , 05:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sommerset
Jesus advocating a man marrying a woman isn't the same thing as him condemning man/man woman/woman marriages though, right?
He was not just advocating, he was defining what marriage is.

But don't let 2,000 years of church history stop you from
redefining what the Scriptures say.
Buddhism and The West Quote
07-30-2011 , 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by festeringZit
He was not just advocating, he was defining what marriage is.

But don't let 2,000 years of church history stop you from
redefining what the Scriptures say.
I was asking if you agreed with my assessment, why does every post you make have to have some little personal dig at the end of it?

How was he defining what marriage is? Did he use the word marriage? It seems like he's just explaining why men and women join together, not saying that same sex people expressly can't or shouldn't do that. If he felt that strongly about it, why wouldn't he expressly speak against it, others certainly did.
Buddhism and The West Quote
07-30-2011 , 06:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sommerset
I was asking if you agreed with my assessment, why does every post you make have to have some little personal dig at the end of it?

How was he defining what marriage is? Did he use the word marriage? It seems like he's just explaining why men and women join together, not saying that same sex people expressly can't or shouldn't do that. If he felt that strongly about it, why wouldn't he expressly speak against it, others certainly did.
Um, I don't know how clearer he could have been. He talks about
a man leaving his parents and cleaving (joining) his wife. There is
*no* disagreement among any Biblical scholars that he is talking about
marriage here, none.

Jesus didn't use the word bestiality either, he does use the
words "sexual immorality" in Matthew 7 and Matthew 15, which
includes homosexuality - and bestiality for that matter.
Buddhism and The West Quote
07-30-2011 , 07:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by festeringZit
Um, I don't know how clearer he could have been. He talks about
a man leaving his parents and cleaving (joining) his wife. There is
*no* disagreement among any Biblical scholars that he is talking about
marriage here, none.

Jesus didn't use the word bestiality either, he does use the
words "sexual immorality" in Matthew 7 and Matthew 15, which
includes homosexuality - and bestiality for that matter.
The fact that we are having this discussion might tell you something about that.

Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.

Here it is again, NIV.

Jesus answered, "Don't you know that in the beginning the Creator made a man and a woman? That's why a man leaves his father and mother and gets married. He becomes like one person with his wife. 6Then they are no longer two people, but one. And no one should separate a couple that God has joined together.

CEV

Bolded are the pertinent bits IMO, because they convey intent. It seems to me that jesus is describing what happens, and why that thing happens, he is not saying a thing "should only be this, and not that" He is not giving a command of any kind.
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07-30-2011 , 07:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexArcher
Splendour, Christianity is hands down, without question, the most sexist religion on the planet. I'm not saying that Christianity created male chauvinism or anything like that, but until you can find another religion that blames the entire downfall of mankind on a woman, your religion wins this one. And women are portrayed as either horrible or worthless in other parts of the Bible too, like Lot's daughters getting him drunk to have incestuous sex with him, and don't forget the part where a father offered up his own daughter to an angry mob to be raped, and there's plenty more. You should seriously drop the chauvinism angle. You won't win.

Also, just to be clear, tantric practices, including tantric sex (which does not always involve a "slave", incidentally; most women involved in tantric sex are involved voluntarily) are part of Tibetan Buddhism only (and I'm not even sure that all sects of Tibetans practice it). Tantra has nothing to do with all of the other flavors of Buddhism.

You've found one practice in one type of Buddhism that you think is distasteful and attempted to make it an indictment of Buddhism as a whole. That's about as fair as if I said Pentacostals handle snakes and drink turpentine, therefore Christians are nutjobs.

You started this thread to try to cast Buddhism in a negative light. You had no intention of trying to learn anything. Your initial premise was basically: Some people think Buddhism is better than Christianity, but I don't think they know very much about Buddhism, so I'll use my master googling skills to see what kind of dirt I can dig up to make Buddhism look bad.

Given how much time you've spent on this endeavor and how little actual dirt you've managed to find, I'd say Buddhism has held up pretty well.
Quotes from Jesus' Interactions With Women:

The most striking thing about the role of women in the life and teaching of Jesus is the simple fact that they are there. Although the gospel texts contain no special sayings repudiating the view of the day about women, their uniform testimony to the presence of women among the followers of Jesus and to his serious teaching of them constitutes a break with tradition which has been described as being ‘without precedent in [then] contemporary Judaism.' "


High number of references to women

According to New Testament scholar Dr. Frank Stagg and classicist Evelyn Stagg,[3] the synoptic Gospels of the canonical New Testament[4] contain a relatively high number of references to women. Evangelical Bible scholar Gilbert Bilezikian agrees, especially by comparison with literary works of the same epoch.[5].82 Neither the Staggs nor Bilezikian find any recorded instance where Jesus disgraces, belittles, reproaches, or stereotypes a woman. These writers claim that examples of the manner of Jesus are instructive for inferring his attitudes toward women and show repeatedly how he liberated and affirmed women.[3] Starr writes that of all founders of religions and religious sects, Jesus stands alone as the one who did not discriminate in some way against women. By word or deed he never encouraged the disparagement of a woman.[6] Karen King concludes, based on the account of Jesus' interaction with a Syrophoenician woman in Mark 7:24-30 and Matthew 15:21-28, that "an unnamed Gentile woman taught Jesus that the ministry of God is not limited to particular groups and persons, but belongs to all who have faith."[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_and_women
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07-30-2011 , 08:37 PM
Isn't this all a bit OT?

To get back to something that I would argue is more OT, Saint Issa ...

Besides a knee jerk - horse hockey reaction - what do you think?
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07-30-2011 , 09:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by festeringZit
Are you in 2nd grade? Do you get a childish kick out of misspelling
the name Jesus?
Is that like saying "raca"? It is a meme on a famous poker chat site.

Jesus clearly defines marriage as between a male and a female
in Matthew 19, not sure how much clearer this can be?


He COULD be a whole lot clearer, but he was not. He could have said, "you suck a dick, you are going to hell", but he did not.


And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ “and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh?’” (Matt. 19:4.)

Come to think of it, in the Romans gotcha scripture, wasn't the author saying more or less"this was what the law was and they were punished"and not explicitly that this was STILL the law? If the law is all supposed to the the same why aren't all the chistians going explicity by the dietary rules in leviticus and whatnot? Why not the rape rules?

By the way, the Bible wasn't written in KJV, somehow I think you
know that.
I well know that sir. I am not so sure about any of it from a translation from a translation from edited writings that was written down who knows when after Jeebus lived anyhow.

I really do feel ashamed of speaking so sardonically myself. I do wish you every happiness despite the fact I do not respect your faith.
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07-31-2011 , 12:38 PM
This guy talks a lot about American Zen ...

Quote:
Some things Zen Master Gosung does not tell me by words. I must directly understand his heart. There, I know to be his most sincere desire and plan to devote his entire life to the establishment of American Zen in the West. By "American Zen" is meant that he intends to have the roots he has set in American soil nourished by American water, American minerals, and American air. These roots are pure Zen, and their nourishment is our culture, concepts and attitudes, or more generally, our way of life. Eventually a beautiful American lotus flower will emerge - still a lotus, but uniquely American in every way.

This so-called "American Zen" root can be planted in any soil, any country and any individual. If it grows according to its natural circumstances, it will still be American Zen, not the Asian Zen culture that has become so well known.


The prologue at x - xiii is interesting and the story of Shim Chan at page 1 is good. Zen Teaching of Emptiness
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