Once you watch the video below you may find it impossible not to rank Billy Graham as one of the greatest - if not the greatest - public speakers in recorded history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvuDmCQn7yQ

Don't focus on the content of his speech. Don't focus on the beliefs and ideology. Just the mechanics of his speech and the ability to use language is incredible. Again, I'm not talking about the message, I'm just talking about the delivery.

Its the first time I've seen the guy talk and even the likes of Martin Luther King would have a hard time competing with that guy.

Anyway, R.I.P. Billy Graham.

Is that the link you meant to post? It sends me to one for his son, Franklin Graham, who after a long battle appears to have emerged the victor in the fight to be Billy's successor.

That aside, I can think of quite a few great public speakers (Hitler, Stalin) who were able to really move crowds, but who I feel are more worthy of a BIH than RIP.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...elical-leader/

Franklin Graham, a man who has expressed anti Islam and anti Muslim sentiments, who has repeatedly violated human rights laws, and who regularly attempts to influence the views of young children through the guise of providing charitable works, who once gave up his salary because he felt it 'looked bad' to receive compensation for doing god's work but then reversed that decision and decided he didn't mind being paid a lot of money after all...

As for his father, Billy Graham was an evangelical fundamentalist (who didn't agree with MLK on some things and thought he should 'put the brakes on a bit'), who thought the government could not be an "instrument of God to bring about justice", who didn't believe in climate change and probably didn't care since he also believed that we are living in 'end times', a man who rejected the Theory of Evolution and believed that the world was literally created in 6 days, he was someone who stood in the way of progress and the scientific understanding of our reality, a man who advised presidents to make decisions with global impacts and that have caused huge suffering based on the existence of an unprovable deity. Not someone I will ever be able to admire no matter how well he spoke. He represented everything I despise about religion.

"didn't believe in climate change"

"stood in the way of progress and the scientific understanding of our reality"

"caused huge suffering"


I find it really humorous that you mention the climate change charade and scientific understanding in the same breath.

Whats wrong with anti-islam and anti-muslim sentiments? I find that funny coming from someone who constantly expresses anti christian sentiments

https://letterstocreationists.wordpr...-on-evolution/

But then again, Mightboosh has never let facts get in the way of his anti-religious diatribes. So why would anyone expect intellectual honesty now?

I mean, it's not like he's going to actually present evidence of any of his claims. He never has, and even if the facts are contrary to his claims he will continue to believe because he's just that bad at intellectual honesty. Remember Thales of Miletus, who was persecuted by Christians before Christianity even existed? It's kind of like that all over again.

Darn it!

Gave a totally wrong link in the OP. Here's what I was referring to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U89zkUZPd5w

I shoulda immediately checked my link on the OP post instead of immediately logging out after submitting the post.

Anyway, it was the first time I ever saw Graham make a speech. Great skills.

Franklin Graham said Muslims do not pray to the God of Abraham.

That is so godamned stupid I was surprised to learn he finished college.

The grossest thing about the senior Graham was giving aid and comfort to a baby killer like Richard Nixon. He even went further than Nixon's mass bombing of Vietnamese civilians, suggesting that he cause famine by bombing dikes.

When Billy Graham Urged Nixon to Kill a Million People

We also have Graham on tape sucking up to Nixon's antisemitism:

“a lot of the Jews are great friends of mine. They swarm around me and are friendly to me. Because they know I am friendly to Israel and so forth. They don’t know how I really feel about what they’re doing to this country.”

Graham was a tawdry opportunist, always ready to play to people's worst instincts.

And another thing:

Panicked Billy Graham Realizes He Took Wrong Turn Into Heaven’s Largest Gay Neighborhood

When I was 9 or 10 I went to a Billy Graham Crusade at our local stadium. Before the actual event my father took me to an evangelism training seminar, where Christian volunteers are taught how to pray with people who want to be born again and then connect them to a local church. I don't remember very much of the training, except them going through the "Roman Road" method of salvation, and a lot of guilt-inducing talk about the absolute importance of trying to convert your friends and acquaintances to Christianity.

Billy Graham coming to town was a very big deal for evangelicals, akin to a visit from a pope. Almost all the local conservative Protestant churches cooperated in sending volunteers, raising money, and so on. This was the most organized and unified I ever saw our local churches, which usually had some kind of feud going on amongst themselves.

The actual preaching by Billy Graham was anti-climactic. The sermon wasn't that different from what I heard in church all the time, except delivered from a stage so far away I could barely see the preacher. I remember being surprised and confused as to why exactly all the people walking up the aisles to ask Jesus into their hearts were doing so. That was all that was needed for them to make such a momentous decision?

My dad did find someone to convert at the Billy Graham Crusade, and kept some level of connection with him for the next few months. Eventually though, he just drifted away.

Wow, in full spew mode today.

I would agree with Franklin, that Muslims don't pray to the God of Abraham. I'm guessing that you are completely ignorant of his position on the matter, given your statement about his education. But then again, most everyone in
here can plainly see your blatant ignorance about Judeo-Christianity.

And, calling Nixon a baby-killer? Somehow I don't think you called Obama the nobel *peace* price winner
a baby killer when he dropped 26,000+ bombs on 7 different countries alone, in 2016.

https://www.alternet.org/grayzone-pr...countries-2016

You implying that Graham was an anti-semite is laughable as well.

You read the quote. Of course he said Jews are ruining America. He took a theological position that Jews have to have Israel to bring on the apocalypse. But his opinion of Jews in America was right out of the same old Jew-hate that Nixon was suckled on.

I don't know what to do with someone who says Muslims don't pray to Abraham's god. It's as if you said green is spelled b-l-u-e. That's a didn't-graduate-from-high-school level of unworldliness.

You don't pray to the God of Abraham, you just say you do. That's you and Franklin's technique. All your Christian talk is just a cover for your worship of, let's look up something wacky, Fenrir.

Nixon? US sources acknowledge about two thirds of those we killed were civilians. That's two million people. For nothing. Much of it was from Nixon's bombing campaign after he'd already started withdrawing ground troops because he knew he couldn't win the war. He was bombing those people even after he and Kissinger had decided to sacrifice Thieu.

Obama's peace prize was a sick joke. I'm happy to call him a micro-Nixon.

Ya, the rain won't stop.

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2018...few-blemishes/

The column I pulled that bit from made the point that everyone got all excised about Graham echoing Nixon's anti-Jew rant, but ignored the part where he urged the president to cause a massive famine by bombing the dikes in North Vietnam. (Something even Nixon didn't do.)

Y'all are fulfilling the point. Graham can call for mass starvation, but the part about Jews is all controversial.

But anyway, for that generation, (Nixon, Graham) antisemitism was the norm. My parents came out of it. Jews weren't allowed to join college fraternities, universities had quotas capping the number of Jewish professors, it was common as dirt. Graham also came out of a milieu and theology that blamed Jews for killing Christ.

So it would be surprising if Graham did not share these views. It wasn't just two minutes, it was a tradition. Yes, he mostly cleaned up his act. But his theological position was that once the Jews helped bring on Armageddon by reestablishing Jerusalem, they're headed for hell. Real wacky stuff. You guys know this, some of you believe it.

It gets worse. Graham made his career by hyping the communist threat. His 1950s revivals were full of phantasmagoric scare talk. This was part of an immensely damaging political trend that put us in repeated ridiculous wars, killing north of five million people.

But he was very sincere.

I don't have much of an impression of him. I've heard the name, but I haven't really known the figure. That's probably in part to me not being an American and his name not reaching the big headlines in my part of the world.

I did some research however and read up on his life. Some things he did seemed very laudable in this day and age (his acceptance of the civil rights movement in particular), others were more regressive (gay rights, some anti-Semitic statements).

I liked his talking points on science, basically saying that the bible is not a book of science and that he was positive to scientific approaches and findings.

I'm sure a lot of the criticism towards him is warranted. When you're in a position of power, that's just the name of the game. It would be unfair to not take into account the times he lived in, but it would also be unfair to give authority figures a pass just because they follow the stream.

All that said, as far as extremely influential evangelicals go, he seemed far from the worst.

I express anti-religion sentiments, I don't pick and choose specific religions. Do you really need me to explain why Graham being an islamophobe is problematic for someone in his position?

He was also a great hindrance to civil rights. You need to do more reading. While you're at it, look up his son, he's even worse.

As long as it didn't contradict his religious beliefs.

So what, that doesn't make him a good person.

Graham believed that Islam was a false religion, and you do as well,
so I guess that makes you an Islamophobe as well, correct?

Just read a memorial to Graham showing that his ideas evolved a lot since the early Fifties. He pushed some for a social gospel, although his organization got in the way. And he declined to participate in the New Right's culture wars on a number of points.

The Last Real Evangelical

.... said the man with a net worth of $25 Million in 2016 which didn't include the value of the huge real estate holdings owned by his Ministry. I didn't see him feeding the poor and starving with his personal wealth even though he didn't mind farmers going out of business to feed them.....

Typical theist hypocrite. He definitely isn't the last of the real ones of those.... plenty of them left and plenty more springing up every 5 minutes.

http://www.beliefnet.com/news/2002/1...itors-say.aspx

https://billygraham.org/press-releas...ng-world-2016/

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/29/the-...d-in-2016.html

But facts don't matter to MB.

Sometimes hypocrisy is better termed complexity. Graham was someone who was,

Billy Graham Built a Movement. Now His Son Is Dismantling It.

Mostly though it's better to call a spade a hypocrite because his personal wealth was stunning hypocrisy. Simple.

And yet he passed it on anyway.

And a third hand to count what you keep for yourself....

................

Our kids primary school (non-faith) used to use the OCC shoebox scheme, and while they fought me on every religious issue going they dropped that like a hot brick when I told them about Franklyn Graham and replaced it with the Rotary club's scheme instead. Possibly the only change I acheived that survived my time as a school governor. For a non-faith shcool there was sure a lot of christianity being urged on the kids, and not in an educational way.

Did Billy Graham believe that having a large personal wealth is immoral? That is not a standard part of Evangelical Christian theology.

He was willing to put American farmers in harms way to feed the poor (see quote in #20), but didn't live by the standard he was willing to impose on others. With a multi $million fortune and vast real estate holdings he was a long long way from being in 'harms way' himself. I would call that hypocritical.