Benefits of debating Religion? - Page 9 - Religion, God, and Theology

Two Plus Two Forums Other Topics Religion, God, and Theology

Benefits of debating Religion?

Post Reply Subscribe

...

Page 9 of 18

First

4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14

Last

Page 9 of 18

First

4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14

Last

07-31-2012 , 12:53 PM

#201

newguy1234

self-banned

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 3,101

Quote:

Originally Posted by zumby

You really are a very silly young man.

Time is a religious belief.

Quote

07-31-2012 , 01:02 PM

#202

Nsight7

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,243

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy1234

Time is a religious belief.

Except it really isn't a religious belief.

Quote

07-31-2012 , 01:11 PM

#203

zumby

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 4,277

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy1234

Time is a religious belief.

How many people make themselves abstract to appear profound. The most useful part of abstract terms are the shadows they create to hide a vacuum.
- Joseph Joubert

Quote

07-31-2012 , 01:18 PM

#204

asdfasdf32

True Facts

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 13,155

Quote:

Originally Posted by zumby

How many people make themselves abstract to appear profound. The most useful part of abstract terms are the shadows they create to hide a vacuum.
- Joseph Joubert

I like this a lot.

Quote

07-31-2012 , 01:22 PM

#205

newguy1234

self-banned

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 3,101

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nsight7

Except it really isn't a religious belief.

If you rid yourself completely of all belief, time the way we say, percieve, and describe it would cease to exist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zumby

How many people make themselves abstract to appear profound. The most useful part of abstract terms are the shadows they create to hide a vacuum.
- Joseph Joubert

I'm not trying to appear profound, just stating a simple obvious perceivable testable fact. Time is a belief.

Quote

07-31-2012 , 01:45 PM

#206

Nsight7

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,243

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy1234

If you rid yourself completely of all belief, time the way we say, percieve, and describe it would cease to exist.

Though I feel quite certain that you are unlikely to understand what it is you are actually asserting, I know I don't understand what you are trying to get at. Please do elaborate on what you have written above.

Quote

07-31-2012 , 02:00 PM

#207

newguy1234

self-banned

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 3,101

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nsight7

I think maybe you already understand me correctly but don't believe that I could believe what that means. I think its direct and obvious.

Not sure in which direction we would elaborate?

Quote

07-31-2012 , 02:10 PM

#208

Nsight7

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,243

Okay, in what way is riding oneself of all manner of belief related to the idea that time thusly ceases to exist?

Quote

07-31-2012 , 02:20 PM

#209

newguy1234

self-banned

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 3,101

Time is belief, and belief is thought, there is a way of living without thought, therefore without belief and without time.

Thats a Fabric

Quote

07-31-2012 , 03:15 PM

#210

Nsight7

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,243

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy1234

Time is belief, and belief is thought, there is a way of living without thought, therefore without belief and without time.

Thats a Fabric

Wow, what the ****. Nothing you wrote makes any sense at all. You are just writing vacuous nonsense. What the hell does "time is belief" mean? Why should I equate time and belief? Further, why should I equate belief with thought?

Lets just undermine what I think you are trying to argue right from the jump. What if time is not simply a belief but rather exists without reference to human belief structures? Say perhaps as part of some sort of spacetime and whatnot?

Quote

07-31-2012 , 03:32 PM

#211

newguy1234

self-banned

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 3,101

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nsight7

So you are suggesting if a trees falls in a forest and no one is around to here it then it DOES in fact make a sound

If the answer is that simple then why has this paradoxical saying been passed down through the ages?

Without an observer, time as we describe it...is gone.

Without thought, the observer as we describe it, is gone.

Quote

07-31-2012 , 04:03 PM

#212

LEMONZEST

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by zumby

To paraphrase from Hitchens, you give me the awful impression of someone who has never read any of the arguments against your position. Before you assert that objective morality comes from God you first need to state your position on the Euthyphro dilemma: "Is what is morally good commanded by God because it is morally good, or is it morally good because it is commanded by God?"

If what is morally good is commanded by God because it is morally good, then objective moral values can exist, but God is superfluous. If Gods commands are morally good because they are commanded by God, then morality is arbitrary.

Hey Zumby, I am trying to reason from an atheist point of view. So I would presuppose God doesn't exist and Christians are just misguided. In this case what is my moral compass? It would be cool to hear your personal take on it, if in fact you are an atheist.

Quote

07-31-2012 , 04:53 PM

#213

zumby

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 4,277

Quote:

Originally Posted by LEMONZEST

No, I'm not letting you off the hook that easily. You've asserted that a belief in a deity provides an objective moral compass and you need to defend that assertion before we continue.

Quote

07-31-2012 , 05:09 PM

#214

iosys

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,753

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy1234

It would be simpler to just say time is consciousness.

Quote

07-31-2012 , 05:55 PM

#215

newguy1234

self-banned

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 3,101

Quote:

Originally Posted by iosys

It would be simpler to just say time is consciousness.

no because their is a consciousness that is without thought.

Quote

07-31-2012 , 06:45 PM

#216

iosys

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,753

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy1234

no because their is a consciousness that is without thought.

what?

Quote

07-31-2012 , 08:44 PM

#217

newguy1234

self-banned

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 3,101

Quote:

Originally Posted by iosys

what?

thats not correct that time is consciousness because its not. Time is a product of thought, consciousness can exist without thought. This would be choiceless awareness.

So its a different kind of consciousness and only a word to describe the actual thing, but its exists free from thought and therefore free from time.

Quote

07-31-2012 , 09:01 PM

#218

zumby

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 4,277

Quote

07-31-2012 , 09:19 PM

#219

iosys

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,753

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy1234

I disagree with this because I'm pretty sure you're using the word incorrectly.

con·scious·ness/ˈkänCHəsnəs/
1. The state of being awake and aware of one's surroundings.
2. The awareness or perception of something by a person

How can a person be awake and aware without thought?

Quote

07-31-2012 , 09:38 PM

#220

newguy1234

self-banned

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 3,101

Quote:

Originally Posted by iosys

you are actually completely agreeing with me. Thought is the conditioning that takes us away from total and true awareness-from our true being. Now maybe you understand what meditation really is. Meditation is not supposed to be practicing emptying the mind, it is what happens when you do empty the mind. The surroundings created by thoughts are illusions, they are not reality, true reality is without thought. Direct perception only happens without thought.

Last edited by newguy1234; 07-31-2012 at 09:43 PM.

Quote

07-31-2012 , 09:55 PM

#221

Hopey

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 12,004

Mentally ill people who stumble onto 2+2 seem to be attracted to RGT like moths to a flame.

Quote

07-31-2012 , 09:58 PM

#222

newguy1234

self-banned

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 3,101

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hopey

Mentally ill people who stumble onto 2+2 seem to be attracted to RGT like moths to a flame.

By mentally ill you mean doesn't subscribe to Jesus type ideologies, or Muhammad, or the Buddha or whomever the deity is.

Quote

07-31-2012 , 10:02 PM

#223

zumby

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 4,277

I think worshiping Bruce Lee would count

Quote

07-31-2012 , 10:05 PM

#224

newguy1234

self-banned

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 3,101

Quote:

Originally Posted by zumby

I think worshiping Bruce Lee would count

I do too, so did Lee which is why he shut down his 3 schools simultaneously and said "I do not believe in schools"

But Lees 'students' open Jeet Kune do (Lee's art) schools everywhere against the very philosophy they teach.

Quote

07-31-2012 , 10:48 PM

#225

iosys

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,753

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy1234

Well maybe I am, I probably just confused myself and I don't really want to turn the thread into a discussion about time.

I really think people don't have a clear understanding of time. I believe the human brain creates an illusion of time but it may not be as linear as we believe. Our brain might just proceed us to believe that time is always at a steady pace but in reality our brain just has a pattern it's following for us to function "normal" as like everyone else. So many secrets the brain holds...

Quote

Page 9 of 18

First

4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14

Last

Post Reply Subscribe

...

Page 9 of 18

First

4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14

Last