Jesus Christ people, read the goddamn OP. It's three ****ing sentences.

For the last time, this thread has nothing to do with this. This thread has nothing to do with Pascal's wager, or 'what would you do if Christianity turned out to be true' or 'how would you feel if Christianity turned out to be true' or anything remotely close to any of that.

In addition, as I pointed out earlier, it is entirely possible that Christianity is true but that there is not nearly enough reason to believe it 2000 years later.

Except the fact that its complete garbage. Jib's dad is a christian, and jib is a christian as a result of his dad telling him the christian god created him. Some kid born in China won't have his dad telling him the same. There's no way he's seeing the same "evidencce" (errr indoctrination) as jib.

This implication works both ways ie if there is evidence then Christianity is true etc. But "There is evidence" <> "Everybody has access to and can interpret this evidence uncontroversially."

Re-stated its even worse. Where is the evidence for the Christian God in nature for someone who's never heard of him? (hint: it aint there)

Humm.. if that did happen I would plead my case to God. Then I would ask for a customer survey so that God can make it a lot easier on people next time so that not so many people end up in hell. I would at least go to hell with a clean conscience which in my view would lessen the torment a little.

Yes, ty. After asking one of my theist friends what the real-world evidence for the truth of Christianity is, he said, "The world is a broken place... man is fallen." So some random who's never heard of JC is supposed to wake up one morning and say, "Wow the world is sort of ****ed up. Therefore, something created it, he has a son who died for my sins, and I best be worshipping him." ROFL

wow, this could not be further from the truth. But way to pretend that you know what's going on.

Time to give yourself some infraction points for that one, jib. You sure didn't hesitate to give me some when i insulted you.

Jib,

I have a real problem with your third of the four points. It's what holds everything that you said together and yet I find no evidence for it. Would you care to explain how Christianity is true?

Back on topic: Jib, if my post is off for your situation then please explain. No matter what though it certainly could be further from the truth. I think this is a soft spot for you. You like to think that you came to be a christian on you own, for the most part.

Actually, I only deleted your post where you call me an idiot. The infractions where from posts that followed. But, to be fair I edited my post.

I believe in God despite my father. My fathers characterization of God is one of the reasons that I rejected Christianity. What I believe is very far from what my father believes, and if I was shown that the God of the bible had to be the way my father characterizes him, I would most certainly reject the God of the bible.

1. In a work that is heavy in allegory and metaphor we can't just extract a concrete claim about what it says whenever it suits us. but, whatever, let's grant that words to that effect are somewhere in the bible.
2. There is no relationship there. Christianity could be more-or-less true, per op, and the bible 99% false. Iac, as per 1, at best "what the bible says" isn't what the bible says. Christianity could be true-ish and the bible very flawed, in fact jumping from one sect to another would have the others reading a false reading yet both sects would be loosely christian as per op.
3. we discover that christianity is true in a loose way, per the op.
4. Therefore we can conclude that christianity is true in a loose way. That doesn't need the bible to be suddenly a factual literal document ( it can't be, as we already know) or that it was even mainly divinely inspired. The bulk of the bible could have been written to test us in various ways.

We were assuming that the God of the bible was shown to be true. That was part of the OP.

I wouldn't think either of those things, both are totally results oriented. My thought would be that there wasn't sufficient evidence on earth to be sure of Christianity. Actually, my first thought would be, "well I'll be damned."

What if you found out there is no Santa Claus, but there is an Easter Bunny? You could only conclude that the universe is incredibly perverse, not that the Bunny believers were especially perceptive, or the Santa believers unlucky.

Now op, you've been very insistent that people precisely answer your question, and not approach it obliquely. So is it answered?

I suspect that actually, the only answer you will accept as properly sticking to the subject is, "aiii, I was sooooo wrong, give me another chance, blubber blubber blubber."

There is such a thing as the question being wrong. To set up an opening post allowing only one of two answers is just word games, not a search for meaning. But you wanted to set it up so you always win, and you succeeded, but at the cost of exposing shallowness.

I never said your theological views are identical. So at some point in your life you were of the mind that the bible was a complete sham? A lie? How old were you when you stopped believing in the Christian God? Regardless, its quite clear that my comment wasn't very far off. But that doesn't even matter really because I just used you as an example. Substitute any home grown Christian compared with a child who's not exposed to the religion whatsoever.

I would probably be bummed the greek mythology wasn't the right one, Zeus pwns Jesus.

correct me if im wrong but isnt the christian belief that everything is predestined??

I have heard about this free will thing and whatever but if god is all knowing, he would have known ur decision even before you made it, no?

so, to answer the question it would neither be luck nor lack of perception.

you were just **** outta luck from the start.

1. The bible states that women found to be non-virgins before marriage should be stoned.
2. If Christianity is true, then what the bible states is true.
3. Christianity is true.
4. Therefore women found to be non-virgins before marriage should be stoned.

This is not hard people.

---------------

1. The bible states that a man lived inside a whale 3 days.
2. If Christianity is true, then what the bible states is true.
3. Christianity is true.
4. Therefore a man lived inside a whale 3 days.

This is not hard people.

---------------

1. The bible states that different languages developed as a punishment from God.
2. If Christianity is true, then what the bible states is true.
3. Christianity is true.
4. Therefore different languages developed as a punishment from God.

This is not hard people.

---------------

1. The bible states that a snake talked to Eve, leading to downfall of man.
2. If Christianity is true, then what the bible states is true.
3. Christianity is true.
4. Therefore a snake talked to Eve, leading to downfall of man.

This is not hard people.

---------------

Or, Jibs, does your logic here just work for the parts you wish to be literally true?

Shhhh they don't like it when you point out the super ridiculous stuff. I remember being about 14 years old and arguing with my friend's Baptist dad about evolution. He had an "answer" for everything of course.

I was raised catholic but quickly realized that organized religion is bull****. I'm fine with oblivion when I die. Sure I'd prefer a fairytale existence but I'm not banking on. I do know one thing. If there is a "god" or greater intellegence at work in the Universe it is so far beyond our comprehension that any human attempt to rationlize it is stupid.

If I got to the pearly gates and and St. Peter says "I guess you should have listened to your 100 year old aunt and grandmother and accepted jesus as your personal savior" I will be pretty bummed out. It is hard to reject the brainwashing you receive as a kid when it comes to religion.

On the off chance that there is a "god" I'm pretty sure it won't have a damn thing to do with any religion. I'll live my life and try to be a "good" person. I don't need a religion to teach me morality. If that isn't good enough for whatever being I might come across when my physical body expires then **** em.

Hopefully we'll be able to download our brains into computers in the next 50 years. I'd take the guarantee of cyber immortality over the chance of heaven any day.

i think id have to admit i missed something. and no, they did not get lucky if they happen to be correct. would be too coincidental to attribute it to luck, rather than me not seeing things correctly.

impressive

I can only assume the very fabric of my spirit would disintegrate from sheer astonishment.

But really, if not for the fact that most Christians were born into it, I would say they saw something I didn't. However, due to that factor I'm going with mostly luck.

Disclaimer: I'm only a former atheist (now some mix of Buddhist deist new age) but I'm fairly certain this would have been my answer before as well.