I have actually never said that Christian morality should be pushed to society. Actually quite the opposite. I do not feel the Christianity should have anything to do with the government.


My last statement was just saying where christian morals stem from, which is the nature of God and his will. These are the morals that Christians should live by. God's will does not change even if Christians or the church changes it's views on things.

You should read the whole essay here,

CLICK HERE

From reading this thread one it seems that some posters think 'be nice' is somehow a uniquely christian moral code.

You mean respect the position of of male superiority and submitting to it.

What about the things woman are better at in the household. Should a man submit to those things and her will? And if yes an example of where men should submit to woman in the household.

Yes they are better and above you at being a doctor and you should submit to them when it comes to doctoring.

No I never said that men and woman aren't different. Some men are better at some things some woman are better at others things. Often the things they are good at overlap and intermix depending on the individual.

I said they should be free to choose their role in society just as men are free to do. And that they shouldn't have to except some predefined role of submission in everything like the Bible ask them to.

The bible says woman should submit to men I disagree with that. I'm not following its morals, rules or whatever you want to call them. Therefor I must be an immoral rule breaking sinner.

So your religion allows you to be a chauvinist. I can see why you cling so strongly to your faith. You get to be king of your castle where your word is law and the womenfolk must submit to your dominance as a male.

Jib, this is an example of why people get disgusted with religion. It's 2009, not 1959. Women should be treated as equals, not subservient to men. I realize this sounds like a radical comment, but it's actually how most enlightended people feel these days.

I was talking about social norms more than government.

I don't think Jib is trying to support misogyny, just twist the Bible around until he feels it is arguable that it's misogynistic.

To bring this thread back on topic. Most of the criticism of religion that comes from Atheist (at least me) are about what they see as immorality in religion and the Bible. Defending clear cut cases of immorality in the Bible like its treatment of woman or slavery or brutality is part of why religion gets criticized so much. In other words you are impeding the moral evolution of society as i see it. I find it ironic that I'm condemned as somehow immoral or intolerant for criticizing immorality but i guess that goes both ways.

Once again, way to take everything that I said and continue to hear whatever you want.

I have consistently said that I do not believe that women are not equal nor should men dominate over them. And then I proceeded to back it up with scripture and post a link to an essay.

Nah, it is only clearly immoral when you are trying to find a reason to hate the bible. Otherwise, when looking at it objectively it is quite the opposite.

But please feel free to continue on in the ether.

You mean you backed it up with your interpretation of the scripture. I don't think anyone has said they you think men are better than women. (even though the Bible clearly states the opposite)

There are many more versus that haven't been posted that show how the Bible sees women as inferior to men. Something like they shouldn't even stand or talk in church is one I can think of off the top of my head.

And again, one essay doesn't mean ****. Someone can write a million words on how they think those Bible versus really don't mean women are inferior to men, but that doesn't make it true.

LOL

Sorry for laughing man, but you're just so, so wrong here.

When looking at it objectively you see it clearly is immoral.
You're extremely biased on this so I don't blame you for trying to defend your Holy Book, but the opposite of what you said is true.

You said that a woman should submit to her husband because he is most equipped for the role:

The above does not describe a relationship between two equals.

I don't hate the bible. I hate the fact that some of its followers use the bible to justify slavery, bigotry, chauvinism, homophobia, and all sorts of other things that the rest of us find offensive.

What he's saying is that women should submit to their husbands, because their husbands are "better suited" to being the head of the household. I don't think it's even debatable that this is in fact mysogynistic.

I wonder if Jib has shared his views with his wife?

He made that claim but then tried to act if "submit" does not convey some kind of inferiority of the person submitting.

For the first time ever I have logged on to an internet forum drunk. As a result I have read this post and decided, for now, that i hate you. This post is ridiculous. It translates as " we know we are ****s and that makes us less of a **** than them so there, na na neee naaaaa naaaaa," The only thing worse than being hypocritical is being a blatant illogical hypocrite and not acknowledging your stance. G F Y U C

I just told my wife she had to submit to me and got punched in the face. When I pointed out it was in the Bible, she immediately apologized and got me an ice pack.

I said, "Don't worry honey, 'submit' doesn't mean 'submit' like it does today. Just like 'slavery' doesn't mean 'slavery' anymore."

She said, "Wow, was it even translated into English? What does 'and' mean in there?"

I know. And it is a ludicrous argument.

In the lunchroom at work the other day, I overheard a similar conversation, which is probably why Jib got my ire with his posts in this thread. The guy in the lunchroom was explaining to two of our co-workers that he believes that the bible states that it is a wife's duty to obey her husband.

One of the people he was talking to told him that this sounds very chauvinist. He disagreed by explaining that he has the duty to love his wife, so whenever he commands her to do something it is never done out of selfishness or malice. He had a really annoying know-it-all tone while he was preaching the word of the lord -- he was talking to our two co-workers like they were children being taught a lesson.

I had to leave the room. Otherwise I might have done something that would have cost me my job.

Please don't tell me I'm trying to find a reason to hate the Bible, you don't know my feelings. I don't hate the Bible it's an inanimate object and just words. If I have hate for anything (anger would be a better word) it's the actions it inspires in some of its followers today and in the past. You can say I'm not looking at the Bible objectively, but I feel the same way about you.

And telling me continue on in the ether when you have a avatar of Amanda barns, who would of been stoned to death for that outfit and those actions in Jesus' times is just more irony.

Butcho,

Dominance and submission is hot. Why are you hating on kinky sex? Damned atheists and their atheist morality...

Ha! I tried to push them in that direction but I think I came off too preachy.

Just wanted to post a few more scriptures that everyone seems to be leaving out. Everyone is told to submit in many different forms.

Glad the founding fathers in America didn't follow all that submitting to governmental authority crap.