Justin A asks in another thread:

"If a person is born again and gains the spirit ever lose that spirit? I was once a born again Christian but I am now an atheist. Do you think I still have a spirit life?"

Pletho replies:

"Justin if you were truly born again, meaning you confessed Jesus Christ as your lord and savior and believed in your heart tht God raised him from the dead, according to Romans 10:9,10 you still would have eternal life."

I would think this would annoy other atheists in a similar way that responsible mortgage borrowers are annoyed by those bailed out. (Unless of course it means that you too are on a freeroll). But I would think it would irritate theists even more. Wonder what Not Ready, Jib, and Brad think of this?

I think any theist who is annoyed by it is an elitist jerk. They should rejoice in the fact that their brother is saved by the mercy of god even though he has strayed from the flock. Not jealous that someone got into his secret club. Atheist are always annoyed.

Some, including Christopher Hitchens, are of the standpoint that they would rather there not be a god, as the thought of eternal omniscience is unattractive.

faith has to be maintained to carry any weight.

I think it would suck and this is just one more hint for me that this god can't be real, can't be just.
If anyone ever happens to be in hell after death and would be there eternally and it would suck there....then god would be a sick bastard.
I just read romans 10:9,10 and if Pletho thinks that Justin would still have eternal life he must think the bible is literally true. I don't think it is possible for the bible to be true word by word. I've read it and there is just no way.
If it's true we're screwed.

I like his standpoint.

I would say that salvation is covenant between you and God and that you can break that covenant.

If you were to do that you would loose your eternal life and your name would be blotted out of the book of life. I am surprised that Pletho believes otherwise. I did not know any of the theists on this board followed that doctrine.

Pletho, do you also believe in predestination?

For the record I do not follow the idea that if you claim to be a christian then become an atheist that you were never really a christian.

I think that Justin A is an example. From what I know and have read I do feel that he is a very sincere person and seems to have a good grasp on christianity, and if he says that he truly believed I am inclined to believe him.

Mat Skansky: I remember on a poker after dark episode you asked if any of the other "math-based" poker players believed in god. No one said yes. Do you think there's a strong correlation between great poker players and atheism? Why do you think this is?

There are basically 2 camps and I don't know which is correct.

1. Someone like JustinA never really was a Christian so he's in trouble.

2. He was a Christian but really rejected Christ - most who say this also say he won't be in heaven so he's in trouble.

Either way, no freeroll. But Justin shouldn't mind, because if he really did reject Christ he wouldn't like heaven anyway.

And the fair and just alternative for people whose personalities clash with heaven should be torture in hell? Were there really no other options for an omnipotent, omnibenevolent god?

Another thing...

You're implying that human feelings and emotions exist in heaven. I thought there was only one feeling though -- eternal bliss. Also, in order to experience "like" and "love" one needs a contrast to exist as well. (pretty sure I've heard this argument used before, but can't remember where )

But Pletho is espousing a third camp. You are implying that this third camp exists by your use of the word "most" in #2.

I've always been perplexed as to why people would find eternal life unattractive. The basic reasoning for it is the assumption that there's a finite amount of knowledge to be obtained, a finite amount of things to do with your time, etc.

Is that really a stance you want to take? Charles Duell is misquoted as saying "Everything that has been invented has been" in 1899. He didn't actually say that, but think of how silly such a statement sounds.

Even if there's a finite amount of stuff to do in this reality (which seems unlikely to me personally), why can't the Magic Man in the Sky make infinite realities to enjoy?

If you can cure boredom, infinite life = pure win.

The problem is that people in general and mainstream Christians for the most part DO NOT understand that eternal life is dependant on having "holy spirit" within one's self. In order to get holy spirit you have to do what Romans 10:9,10 says. Once that happens it is a spiritual birth, thats why it is called biblically being born again. First birth is physical and second birth is spiritual.

This is all provable biblically but if know one believes and respects what is written in the bible then HOW can you prove it to them. You can't without them believing and respecting the bible.

Sure true born again Christians are on a free roll, but they are losing things that they could actually have in the third heaven and earth IF they choose not to do anything according to the word. If you walk in love after being born again you get rewarded for everything you do in love. So the guy who is on a free roll gets eternal life but NO REWARDS. What are they? Well I know a few of them and lets say that it will far surpass the glory of being a movie star.

If you are faithful to carry out the word, walking in love and a few other things ALL YOUR life, you will actually reign in the third heaven and earth with Christ, you will be one of the top leaders in the third heaven and earth.

So yes my camp is completely different than all these other Christians on here. It is the true camp and if no one believes me I'll see ya all there to tell you I told you so. Figuratively speaking of course. I wont care at that point about who didn't believe in this life. Now is the time to care.

I think that the greatest poker players will dominately be athiest. That is my opinion based on what I know of the word. Because there is another side to poker that many do not understand or realize and that is the spiritual side of poker. What many call hunches and gut feelings. I wont explain that it is too deep for people on here especially those who are not Christians.

But Christians can be great poker players, they just wont be in the catagory of the best and if there are some they will be few in that echelon. Poker is not a Christian activity, it falls under the catagory of greed and covetenous. It also is in the catagory of taking, lying, deceiving ect... Which are all the nature of poker.

Either way it is still a fun game.

Pletho

I accepted JC as my savoir so I could have sex with a cute Christgirl.

I am now an atheist. I hope its a freeroll

You may not be on a free roll if you ACCEPTED CHRIST. There is no such thing biblically written that says you have eternal life for ACCEPTING Christ.

You may want to have a DO-OVER and do it right. You are to CONFESS according to Romans 10:9,10 not ACCEPT.

Words are important and have everything to do with it. So if I were you I might just have a RE-DO session on Romans 10:9,10 and cover your bases.

Remember God can't be fooled so you better mean it from your heart.

Then you are on a free roll so to speak. Maybe its not the best thing you can do but it is better than not having eternal life at all.

And people think God isn't loving? Free-Rolls are the nuts.



Pletho

any christian annoyed by it should probably not be called a christian

Do you not realize how ridiculous this sounds? It sounds like something a 9 year old would come up with.

you really find this remarkable?

Even after reading this forum almost every day for the last few years, I still find the mindset of people like Pletho to be completely mind-boggling.

"Say the magic words and you'll get into heaven...but if you do it wrong the first time, you're allowed a do-over".

Sigh.

It's not this one unless Christianity has a new ridiculous definition.

Is "rejecting Christ" the same as no longer believing he was divine?

I don't mind, but it's not for the reason you state. I would love heaven and I wish it did exist. I also wish Jesus existed and was waiting to take me away after I die. Is that really rejecting Jesus?

I imagine that most atheists feel the same way. Stating otherwise is just Notready's way of further demonizing non-believers.

Apparently you need to say the magic words first.

actually, this is the complete opposite of what really happens in the world.

THIS.

I find it irritating when theists twist language so that "not believing" is misrepresented as "rejecting."

One cannot reject an offer by a person they don't believe exists.

The christians should man up to the fact that their God, if he in fact does exist, is hiding since the majority of the world doesn't seem him.

And to punish people for not believing in something when he gave them their mental faculties and has made himself invisible (you need faith!!!) - he's outfight cruel.

The third camp would be those you wish existed and constantly mock - you can say "I believe in Christ" then go out and do anything you like, even reject Christ, and still go to heaven. It isn't really a camp - it's a few people who probably belong to the first camp - not really Christian.

I don't know if you've rejected Christ or not, I'm making no judgment. I was just answering DS' post. He seems to think you have so for me it was just an example, a hypothesis. Your beef is with DS.