nice post though

Ok but you gotta admit its really not as black and white as that, granted this thread may have been messy for a while, but if you really dig into the RT threads and see where people are claiming to check it for themselves and coming back with the I, then they are questioned on it, its not just a case of "WRONG AGAIN COWARD", they are asked to point it out, they are asked to describe it, they are asked stuff like "so who creates the thoughts, where do they come from? initially? What influences the brain? what influences decisions?"

I asked 2 people that kind of stuff here in the past page or 2 and got no response.
Its impossible to give a response, literally, thats just the way we get people to check it for themselves.

NOW, all that said and done, i challenge you to find me a thread where someone is coming back claiming to have seen the I, and then questioned on it ,where they DONT fall into the world of bull****. Really, thats when **** hits the fan. Seriously, people just ending trying to weasle out of it through philosophy, spirituality or some other means.

And believe it or not, it often works.
You hold up what they are saying and show it to them for the nonsense it is.
They sometimes get pissed off, show a bit of honesty . You really point it to them what exactly they are doing and saying and often when ALL the **** is over and done with all they can do in the end is look.

And thats when it ends up funny, they see through the illusion and laugh back at their owns posts.
One of the main mods whos done the most work on the forum since it started only joined up to troll and wind up the other guys on it, he took the piss out of them until eventually he decided to have a bloody look for himself , and thats when he cracked it.


Is all this some sort of mantra? Some sort of weird cult where we scream at people until they believe it?
No , beliefs are torn apart. We say time and time again that dont believe us. To believe us would be as bad as believing in Santa.
Heres something I wrote on the facebook group to demonstrate to people that we are not in the business of getting people to believe, we are not even in the business of believing it ourselves...

Quote:

A little thing Ive been doing recently to dig into this, imagine everyone on RT turned around and told you its all a load of nonsense. The likes of the people from the start. Imagine the likes of Ciaran said that it was just some philosophical phase, that really he just convinced himself of something for a while, but it was no more than what most of the world see already, but just quite simply dont care.

That there is no such thing as liberation. Imagine RT was to fade away because basically everyone on it lost interest, because nothing really happened, and that a belief of liberation just wore off. The realization occured that everyone else already sees this. That we played ourselves for fools, all buying into some bull**** of RT that we thought would be the answer to our suffering.

Imagine getting a pm from people like Kevin, Stephen or Ilona who have liberated many, apologize for wasting your time, that after all that was said in the past year it WAS just some sort of cult, not in a conventional way but just a cult as in a bunch of fools that thought they knew something and as a result were addicted to Ruthless Truth and everything it sold.

Where would that leave you?
You'd feel a bit like **** yea? Like lets be honest, straight away you'd be a bit sickened despite what you've experienced yourself.
All you could do is keep living life and see how this no self thing plays out. See for yourself if its true.
THATS how you test this thing!!! Never presume it to be true.

The purpose of this post is to explain to people that are not free that we take nothing for granted. We look for evidence instead.

I dont know what you mean by that sorry

neither pairtheboard or jason engaged directly with my questions.
batair just ended up trolling.
And AJ imo is too far the other end of the spectrum, he talks alot of sense here, he really does, and he talks sense in how the real way to test your realization is in conversations like this.

But there seems to be a spectrum, and imo he is too far the other end of it, Im more interested in living life and all the fun ups and downs of it, getting angry is fun, getting sad , etc , its all part of life.
Getting riled up in a thread like this, its part of life, real life.
If you want to go as far as AJ you can , but then you view the world in just as skewered a way as someone who is depressed does.
Only this time everything is ****ing great and perfect. AJ is actually trying to help me, he is trying to get me there too. And he DOES speak sense, and he DOES acknowledge our realization. But Im not on a quest for selfish constant happy feelings. I am far more content with everything life has to offer, good or bad. Im serious about that.

I would consider the message of physical fitness as equally important as this. And its great that its a massive thing around the world, and that pretty much every human knows that physical fitness is a key to a better standard of living.

seriously, if nobody knew that running made you healthier, that lifting weights made you stronger, I would be absolutely obsessed with telling people.

adecleir, answer this for me if you would..

Before I was "liberated" I thought death was ___________________ .

But now that I am "liberated" I think that death is ___________________ .

Be honest or just say pass. Please just fill in the blanks with what you think fits best.

Thank you in advance.

Ha, I was expecting another funny picture. THIS is what I like.
i answered in the quote, i am being as genuine and honest as possible there. I never believed in any self if thats the point you are trying to make? well I guess I did, but I didnt think I did, I always knew there was nothing more than an advanced natural machine here.

I don't know why you say "advanced", as if there's anything to compare it to, but yes, I was trying to get at that.

Fwiw, the answer for me is "the end". When I thought God existed I may have answered like you did (not trying to imply anything here). At best I might say that our consciousness transcends (somehow). But as creative as I can be, I just don't think there's anything after life that we'll be aware of.

I hope that doesn't come off as being contradictory.

Admittedly one of the biggest failures of the thread by me here was not succesfully explaining what was meant by the "you",
That said, im not going to be too hard on myself, I did make a list of example a good few pages back. And also some other people had absolutely no trouble understanding it.
Neeeel and lolgossip had no problems cracking it, not to mention a few other posters adding their 2c that they knew what we mean.
So actually in hindsight, I have to wonder was it the likes of Fishnoob purposely confusing the thing in an attempt to weasel out of answering it.

I agree with you. "end of this life" wasnt meant in any weird spiritual weird way, I was always a skeptic atheist, I would have answered the same,I just quite simply mean the fact that awareness will be finito.

regarding "advanced", I think you might be reading into my words too much as if I mean something more , what I mean by that is that we are like a machine, but ****ing really really really complex.

I'm tired and just had to nitpick a word while I was gathering my thoughts

"Our brain is more complex than the entire universe." That's what I've heard scientists say. I just don't get it though. Both are things we can hardly get a grasp on, but at least our brains are within reach. How do you know how complex the universe is, when you can't even see/understand what's in the vicinity?

That's my stoner rhetorical question btw.

Granted you put a lot more effort into the discussion than the OP, but your argument (as far as I can see) and the argument made in similar threads on rt.com is "look until you see". People claim to have looked and still believe there is a self (as I do) and they are simply told this is incorrect and to be more honest in looking until we find there is no self. I've looked as honestly as I can and I still think self exists. How can I improve my looking? How can I be more honest?

You would probably call the way I define the self bull****, but it makes perfect sense to me, and nothing you or any poster on RT has said has made me change my mind. Am I simply incapable of seeing this real truth?

I think you should reread some posts by jason1990 and pairtheboard.

The fact they didn't answer your questions doesn't mean they didn't engage them.

By describing what you see and making sure at every single point you make sure that you are not trying to use the presumption of a self as a means to answering what you see.
Also heres some 'tips' or experiments on understanding the concept, i copy and paste this from my blog...

You now to need to see that it doesnt exist. Check if the self is actually something real that is in your body, or is it just another concept or idea?
This is what is meant by looking.

Every time you start walking try and think of the movement, try and see who is actually controlling it. You will find that there is no need for "you" to control your legs, they are just simply walking. The body is simply walking.


Imagine your car, now there you have the image of your car in your head. Is that car real? No, its just the image of the car in your head. Now go outside and look at that car , this confirms that the image represents true experience and reality. Do this with many objects.
Now start doing it with the self. Think of your 'self' and try and find what is real about it. Look around and try and see where this self is coming from, this idea, you will find it is based on nothing. It is simply not there.


Every time you have a conversation try and think was there a self needed for the words to come out. You will find that there was no need for any controller, they just rolled out. A "you" did not say them, the body and mouth said them.


Look in front of you, around you, everywhere, look directly at everything that is real, and see that it is real. Look at it, dont just think about it, actually look right at it. Its the truth you are looking at. The idea of a self is just a concept.


Do all of the above all the time, it only takes a second to see there is no you. Dont be expecting anything, if you experienced a glimpse of enlightenment drop any thought to do with it. If you find yourself pondering about anything, drop it. If you find yourself thinking its all nonsense and as a result you're not actually looking? Then drop it Never hold this at arms length, jump right in yourself. Do not start "practicing" this as if its something that slowly happens.



No, you just dont want to , fine.

Why do I get the impression that if I read everything you just posted.. on acid.. it would make more sense?

I might actually try this.

Stu, pat yourself on the back, you are probably the sole reason this thread keeps getting bumped every day or 2.

I'd pat myself on the back but right now I'm looking at something. Not just looking, but L@@KING. Then I have to find a stealth way to ask myself WHO is doing the looking.


J/k though. I do enjoy parts of this discussion (the parts that aren't rammed down my cowardly throat)

I wanna go on RT and create an account and name it "I AM YOUR I" just for kicks n giggles.

"Ain’t it just like the night to play tricks when you’re tryin' to be so quiet?"

An Adyashanti video just out that is apropos to our thread.

Part 1 12m
Part 2 7m

At the very least, if you choose not to listen to it all, the last minute of part 2 might be very helpful.

Taking the non-locality of the self to be a conclusive proof for the non-existence of the self strikes me as bad thinking.

he speaks the truth... Id prefer if he pin pointed stuff more and got her to look herself by questioning her and getting her to come up with her own answers instead of getting her to believe it.

part 1: 10 minutes to 11:30 minutes is solid

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-enquiry

Self-enquiry (also spelled self-inquiry) (Sanskrit ātma-vicāra) is a practice designed to rapidly bring about Self-realization, Self awareness, spiritual liberation or enlightenment, and is most commonly associated with its most famous modern advocate, Sri Ramana Maharshi. While Sri Ramana said that Self-realization could be brought about --- as it was for him --- merely by giving up the idea that there is an individual self which functions through the body and the mind, few could readily do so. When asked for the most effective practice to facilitate Self-awareness, he commonly recommended forms of self-enquiry...

on those videos aj posted:

everything that is unconscious is one- and concious is distinct from unconcious. Whatever one uses to look, is still using their concious because it is impossible to exist outside of conciousness and that includes the subconcious, the sub concious is still self- It just behaves differently thats all- it is still the self, just because it merges and emerges within unconscious, does not make it unreal.

Ask yourself

'What shall I do?'

Who answers?

Also still believe this is just super hyped up realisation hat everything exists through awareness, but it is still forsaking the powerful tool and gift of imagination, it is choosing to be ignorant of it instead of looking into that and understanding it. It can be 'bad' i.e it makes you fearm but it also makes you hope and love which is essentially the same thing but just on opposite sides of a pivot- self mastery would be balancing and walking along this plane and being able to step off whenever- rather than stepping off and thinking 'hey its nice down here' 'think this is real and that other place was just bullo****' whilst all the while you have lost control and it is covered up by 'enlightenment' a very tricky and hard to see 'self' in itself.

THE ****ING IRONY ATHTHHGHGDHGB

This just shows that you dont really understand what they are talking about

Also, instead of asking who answers, a better question to ask is "Who is asking"