Lol wtf?

How does hierarchy in the Mormon church work given that it seems pretty much all the men are ordained as qualified to have some degree of leadership? Do you feel this fosters a degree of community and egalitarianism? Also, do you see the Mormon church members becoming more open in regards to LGBTQ issues in the future? Do you think they will move more towards focusing on service than legislative battles and become more welcoming of LGBTQ members?

guess the OP left the thread to the wolves

If I were born into that cult, I'd be an atheist, too. Just renounce anything that in any way resembles that nightmare. Hopefully after the pendulum swing, the quest for truth will commence.

err aren't you a christian?

Give me a second I wrote something but I think I can find a organizational chart. This might take a while I'll put in another post.

At the local levels, yes. Very much so. For instance, at my local ward ( name for a local church) in my lifetime the occupations of people that have been the bishop ( equivalent of a pastor ) has been a doctor, a regional manager for a major grocery chain, a painter, an engineer, a car body specialist, and a plumber.

One of the guys I know is a promotions manager for Faith Hill, Tim McGraw, and a whole host of country stars. He was in charge of the missionaries and treated them just like another client. He hustled everyone to get them dinners, car rides, inviting them over to talk to musicians, and movie stars he worked with, loaned them an extra car when theirs broke down. Next year he got put in charge of the kindergarten kids and I would see him making little paper cut out magnets for the parents to stick on the refrigerator.

Doubtful. I wish they would, but I don't see it happening. Imo, Prop 8 was a black eye for the Church in spite of it gaining more ground with 'mainstream' Christianity.

That would be the better direction to go. I don't see the Church ever, say, accepting LGBTQ members in say leadership roles or accepting gay marriage, but at least not being hostile to LGBTQ interests would be good but unlikely.

The interesting thing is that, I would say 80 -90% of the youth are at least accepting of LGBTQ and favorable towards legal gay marriage and equal rights at least in private.

Like my friend told me, it is one thing to personally think something is against God, but another to deny them the right to see someone who they love in a hospital.

I thought that it would take a while but the Church website is pretty helpful

Organizational Structure of the Church



It goes:

Prophet

12 Apostles

Seventies

Stake Leaders

Ward/Branch leaders

People are called to a position from someone above them

Ward leaders get called by Stake leaders, Stake leaders get called by Seventies/on and on. A new prophet is called ( usually after the old prophet's death) , by the 12 Apostles who then calls the apostles. Positions within the ward are called by the ward leaders. Missionaries are called by the 12 apostles.

That's the key, IMO. Kids these days are much more tolerant. Eventually, they'll be put in leadership positions. When they are, the current anti-gay stance will begin to weaken. But that's going to take a long time. Especially since current leaders (at the local level, they are in the 30s and 40s) are still teaching kids that gay = bad.

Correct, but I thought I'd clarify some things for non-members. In a given town, each neighborhood is in a separate Ward. Members go to church at a specific time with other members in the same Ward. The advantage is that you go to church with the same people every week, get to know them, and meet people in your neighborhood. The disadvantage is that you are required to go at a specific time. If your meeting is at 2:00 pm then gets changed to 8:00 am, you have to switch, even if 2:00 is much more convenient.

Anyway, several Wards are grouped together into a Stake. Where I live, 4 Wards share a building and two buildings (8 Wards) make up a Stake. This is a relatively Mormon dense area. It'd be different in less dense areas.

So you can see that a Ward leadership position is not quire as prestigious as a Stake leadership position, and so on up the line.

Also, one clarification. The next Prophet isn't "called" from the current Apostles. There is a line of succession, determined by seniority--the person who's been an Apostle the longest becomes the next Prophet. Thomas S. Monson is the current prophet and Boyd K. Packer is next in line. Both are in their 80s. So unlike votes for the Pope, there is no drama when a Prophet dies, because everyone knows who the next prophet is. OTOH, this method guarantees that Prophets are very old when they take office. Every prophet since 1945 has been called when he was in his 70s.

Very accurate. The inaccuracies I noticed were minor. E.g., I don't believe Joseph Smith claimed direct descent from Jesus.

And they don't teach that Elohim became Adam. They teach that the archangel Michael became Adam.

And the statement that Joseph Smith said he saved more people than anyone, including Jesus, is not true. They teach that Joseph saved more people than anyone except Jesus.

All the other stuff in the video was true: blacks are black because they didn't take sides in the pre-mortal war; Lucifer and Jesus are brothers with competing plans of salvation; etc. Though I'd guess many Mormons aren't familiar with all the concepts in the video.

In fact, they left one important fact out: they talked about dark-skinned Lamanites and light-skinned Nephites being Israelites and being at war with each other. What they didn't mention is that the Lamanites became dark-skinned because they turned from God.

Yes, the Mormons teach that the reason Native American are dark skinned is because their ancestors rebelled against God.

Upon further research, it appears that others have said that Smith descended from Jesus, though I haven't seen anything that says Smith claimed it himself.

This whole doctrine is a little contrived. It is beyond dispute that Brigham Young taught something very similar to this, though possibly not exactly this teaching. But it seems that the Church has largely abandoned this teaching.

Smith never said this, but did say this:

I live near Joseph Smith's birthplace and I went to check it out a few months ago. I was curious because I had just read "Under the Banner of Heaven" which is kind of a book about the history of Mormons. The people there were very nice. I was surprised it is open every day of the year (except maybe Christmas). Mormons have a lot of good attributes. Of course, their extreme belief can be dangerous, as shown by the crimes committed by the fundamentalist Mormons, however I would like more people to be as friendly and helpful as Mormons are.

I know this thread is months old, but I came across it while doing research and I know others will see it too, even if they don't write here.

This thread contains mainly half-truths, misinformation, and misrepresentation. The most accurate person here is Huehuecoyotl. I suggest if you really want to know what The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (or Mormons, same thing) is about you get it from the horse's mouth. And by that I mean the Church itself. They have helpful websites you can access.

www.lds.org
www.mormon.org

Then you can judge for yourself from the source, and not from the hearsay that seems to be the foundation of most of the "information" here.

Also, be aware there are churches that have broken off the Mormon church, mainly the Reorganized Church of jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (which is now called Community of Christ) and the Remnant Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. While they share roots with the mormon church, they are not in anyway affiliated with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints since the time they broke off, so be careful not to mix up the beliefs.

A few more points:

1. There were some posts "revealing" some of what went on in scared temple ordinances. First of all, truth taken out of context can become false. Second, those ordinances are extremely spiritual and highly symbolic, so if you're not acquainted with the symbols used it can look ridiculous and meaningless (especially when taken out of context, as those posts were). Third, information from someone who would defy the privacy of sacred rites is a suspicious source at best. Lies were involved in at least part if not all of the process, so why should any of the information be true? Think for yourself.

2. That cartoon about Mormonism that was banned is very loosely based on the actual beliefs. It takes them out of context and mocks and misrepresents them.

3. The "magic mormon underwear" are symbolic of the covenants one makes in the temple, particularly the one of modesty. Mormons believe in being modest of dress and attitude. The garments help reinforce that belief, and remind them of the other covenants made between them and God.

4. Yes, the church does in a small extent discourage "non approved" published works and whatnot, but that's because it's a tricky area. That's partly so because of disgruntled persons or enemies of the church magnify unimportant aspects or distort information to look like truth and it can and does mislead many. The church has always encouraged education and a chief foundation of the church is freedom of choice.

5. The idea of tithing is charity. God (through the church) asks that the members pay tithing as an act of charity, of putting others before yourself. This is why if you don't pay tithing, you aren't worthy to participate in the sacred ordinances that go on in the temple. 1 Corinthians chapter 13 puts it fairly well.

http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/...er=13&verse=14

To sum it up it says "I could be the most powerful, the biggest star, the brightest intellectual and have much wisdom and skill, but it's all for naught if I don't have charity." Verse 13 says "And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these [is] charity." Tithing helps support the various functions of the church, such as land purchasing, building chapels, paying bills. It also supports members and nonmembers alike worldwide who need it - prominent examples are relief from natural disasters like Katrina or what happened in Haiti and Chile.

6. The interview at the end of the year with your bishop about tithing is to let you see what you've paid over the year, and verify the accuracy of the record. The church needs the verification so they can more efficiently manage their own finances. Another purpose is so you can get a copy of the record for your taxes. Tithing is deductible.

7. No, the church will not change its stance on LGBT. Ever. The core of the church is the family, with heterosexual marriage and family unity emphasized. To change that would be to destroy the church, which was promised would not happen ever again.

8. The reason that more than 12 million strongly believe in a religion that looks completely fabricated is because of personal revelation. This is another cornerstone of the church: That God lives, and still gives guidance and revelation. Mormons are encouraged when they have a question to seek out the answer, and study, ponder, and then ask god for themselves. They may or may not have a vision, as Joseph Smith did. More often than not it is a very strong feeling of affirmation within the asker, usually described as "their heart was afire" or "the heart within them burned". Basically they asked God themselves, and then felt good about it so they joined the church.

9. I personally believe that the church had to make a proclamation specifically about blacks also receiving the priesthood was because of the prevalent attitudes of society as a whole at that time. Racism was so rampant back then that God HAD to point out to the people of the church that blacks were children of God too, and therefore could have the priesthood.



I am a mormon. I know that the gospel is true and that Joseph Smith is a prophet of the Living God. I bear testimony that Christ lived and died that we might return to our father in heaven. I have asked for myself and received a witness from the Holy Spirit. I know that the rules and teachings of the church might seem restrictive, but if one follows the spirit of them it changes one's life in amazing ways. It's the spirit of God that is the strength of the church, and what truly gives meaning to it. Seek for your own understanding continually, ponder, and ask God.

If you want to contact me my email is mithrayk@gmail.com. Mostly I direct you to the websites I listed before, though.

www.lds.org
www.mormon.org

And if you want the facts about Scientology, go here.

Lol, that's exactly what I was thinking.

That is basically inconsequntial-if their beliefs are correct.

...But not until they're married, amirite?

But seriously, what are the consequences for Mormons who date non-Mormons or have pre-marital sex?

I realize the OP may not be around anymore to answer our questions and that I will most likely get a response from Mithrayk, but I do welcome the perspective from a believing Mormon. Either way, this is a great thread and I'm glad it has been resurrected.

Pretty funny that guy addressed every major part of the thread but the fact it is proven that Joseph Smith made up the Gospel of Abraham from an entirely unrelated Egyptian document.

But the ones talking about Temple practices are the suspicious sources because they are talking about things they promised to not talk about

is it correct that if you (man or woman) don't get married in life you will have a second change in a different "world" where all the "single" people will have the possibility to get married and if you miss this last opportunity you go to hell?

I am also curious why Mormons have so many kids. I guess I can think of a few reasons:

-emphasis on family means "bigger is better"
-belief that birth control is bad (?)
-God wants it that way
-Spread the religion quicker

Anything else? Most of the Mormon families I grew up with could barely afford to raise 4 kids, but they all had 6-8 anyway.

Mormons

☑ Very well organized
☑ Family oriented
☑ Have the name "Jesus Christ" in their name
☑ Dress well
☑ Well behaved
☑ Not afraid to knock on doors
☑ Do not have professional clergymen

but

☑ Massacred about 120 men, women, and children
☑ Believe the wacky golden plates thing

I give them ★★★★

See, I hear this from a lot of people, but it's really not my experience. Most of the Mormon men I have met have been arrogant, homophobic, misogynist pricks. And most of the Mormon girls I have met have had serious psychological issues that I can only attribute to their creepy religious upbringing. It's not exclusive to Mormons, but I have not had this apparently very common "Mormons = ultra nice" experience.

Dating outside the church isn't a big deal. It's a great way to bring people in, as a matter of fact. At any rate, it's not some big sin to date/marry outside the church. Grandparents on both sides have been married to non-LDS partners. Premarital sex is a huge no-no. Consequences? My aunt was excommunicated for living with her fiance.

No idea, never heard of this.

'Go forth and multiply' imo. Big focus on family, church growth isn't a stated goal, per se. Birth control is considered sinful. Same reasons as the Roman Catholic stereotype.

I just don't see why "arrogant," "homophobe," "misogynist," and "has issues" are mutually exclusive with "nice."

Do you see Mormons openly deride others, behave violently, etc?