yes to both

No

No.

Yes

Pretty much. Harris lost a portion of the BOM. It is claimed that it fell into the hands of some people. God told JS not to retranslate that portion of the book because people would have the original manuscript, change texts, and claim that JS was a fraud. Or at least that is how the story goes in the Mormon Church.

This is one of the more curious parts that doesn't add up if you are in the Church. Because of editing ( I assume I haven't found the original command that restricted their involvement in the church) the reason that black people couldn't receive the priesthood is left out, BUT there is a commandment that they receive the priesthood in 1972 ( I believe). Kind of like repealing a law that no one knows how it got started. That is if you stick within the Mormon community of texts.

Nope 7th Day Adventists, I believe. So hard to keep up with all the sects.

Sure. Huge emphasis on the family. Every Monday is known as 'Family Home Evening" or FHE for short. Basically one night dedicated to doing something as a family. Could be anything from playing games, working on the house, etc. When I was little my parents were very poor and 1 Monday a month for FHE we would go to Dairy Queen and get chocolate dipped ice cream cones ( my parents couldn't afford anything else more) Highlight of my month as a kid.

As a "young single adult" read 18 to married every Monday is a night for an event of all the single people to get together and play games ( basically every wholesome game imaginable), do service work, etc. It is an easy way to meet 10,20, 30 people in a night. If you move into a new community that has this it is an easy way to build the social network of likeminded people, if you are Mormon.

Emphasis on personal health. The Mormons believe in what is called " The Word of Wisdom" basically a dietary guide set down by God. The precepts are pretty general eat mostly grains, meat sparingly, stay in shape. The specifics are no alcohol, no tobacco, no tea, and no caffeine. I'm sure plenty of people would view this as a negative, but it will keep you healthy if that is what you want.

Although the no alcohol and tea and caffeine thing would be a bummer, Mormons usually have an emphasis on dancing and education. Once a month there usually is a dance, one for 14-18 year olds ( high school) and other for singles and older singles. Depending on the location they can be pretty small or huge sometimes renting out clubs to hold them. Along with that comes an emphasis on dating ( not sex though ). Usually kids from 16 on up are encouraged to date early and date often ( again with not sex thing, bummer I know). Dating multiple people was usually considered fine as well as long as it wasn't serious ( insert latent polygamy joke).

Some of the practical benefits is that there is a built in social network. As most Mormon churches have the same schedules and activities such as Family Home Evening, seminary ( bible studies) on Wednesdays, Dances once a month ( per area, metropolitan areas will have the different suburbs rotate dances per week so usually there is one every weekend) and the general cohesion of the activities means you can go practically anywhere there are members and make 20+ friends within a week and meet hundreds in a month.

The downside to this as mentioned in this thread somewhere else is that if you leave the church you commit social suicide. Not in the sense of most members are told to shun you ( they aren't unless you invite them to drink or do other " illecite activities" ) but that if you are in a majority Mormon town you lose a lot of the time needed to keep relationships going. Your Mormon buddies will be busy Monday night, Wednesday night, Friday night, and usually the other nights as well hanging out with Mormon friends.

The reason I ask is I've been going to protestant churches all my life and if you hang out with people for a couple of months, you can tell who actually cares about it and who goes because of social reasons pretty quickly. Just wanted to compare the two.

Do you think there are more hypocrites in the mormon church or protestant church?

The Mormons were kicked out of Ohio, Missouri, then Illinois. (Non-Mormons didn't like the polygamy and the tendency of the Mormons to vote in blocs, thus politcally controlling the town they're in. They finally fled to escape the US government by going past the Rocky Mountains. (It isn't well known because Mormons are generally very conservative, patriotic people today, but in the beginning of Mormonism, they HATED the US government.) Of course, during their exodus from Illinois to Utah, the Mexican-American War occurred, making Utah a part of the US anyway.

But the Mormons founded Utah and kept the political power in Utah ever since, which is why it exploded in Utah. Mormonism is still a force in close states (particularly Idaho and Arizona), but is basically nothing in the East Coast.

It just seems weird to me. My stepson (non-Mormon) is in college and doesn't call his mother very often, by my standards. But he still texts her several times a week and probably calls at least twice a month.

But there's a difference between not calling your parents because you're busy and not calling your parents because you are not allowed to.

In Utah there are plenty of "Jack" Mormons who don't go to church or anything, but otherwise it's rare. The Mormons are highly insular. They want members to socialize with other members constantly, and don't like letting people go. Status in the church is related to activities like standing in front of everyone and "giving testimony" or basically talking about how sure you are that the Mormons are right and by participating in a wide range of events ranging from weekly meetings to picnics, sporting events, dances, and so on.

A big deal is made of faith and God and the whole dogma at these events, so it doesn't leave a lot of room for "going through the motions."

The best T shirt I've ever seen at a bar (downtown boise) said " I love Mormon Puxxy" It's like making fun of the Amish on TV. If they're serious about their crazy religion they'll never see it and thus can't be offended.

How accurate is this mormon cartoon and who created it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFZ1j...eature=related

When you were doing missionary work (not sure if it's called that; Mormonism is quite rare in the UK I rarely encounter them), did you convince anybody to join the Church, and if so do you now regret that given your realisation that there is no truth in it?

Also, not sure how best to phrase this, but how do you account for the strong unyielding faith that people have in Joseph Smith's testimony, when to an outsider it seems fairly obvious to be fabricated in so many ways?

The same can be said for all of Christianity of course, only in this case one has to perhaps do more research in terms of historical, archival & archaelogical studies so less people are aware of the massive flaws in 'standard' Christianity (jesusneverexisted.com has a lot of informative, well-sourced essays on this).

As with many (relatively) modern religions like Mormonism and Scientology that don't have long-running traditions over many centuries, I find it even more difficult to understand how people can be so adamant that they are true, so I wondered if there was a specific indoctrination method that can blind even an inquisitive adult mind from what seems obvious to everyone else.

It's quite simple really, you should do a little research on Cargo cults, they may make things a little more clear. They even have a Messiah for whom they wait to return, John Frum, an american.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWjGwBpLZdY (National Geographicly NSFW)

I have read about Cargo Cults before and although I see what you're getting at, I don't think it's a fair comparison as there is a huge difference in that Joseph Smith was not an outsider bringing previously unseen materials but a member of the community making bold claims about translating stones that nobody else ever saw etc.

I'd be less inclined to question why Cargo Cults came about as they were obviously isolated from the rest of the world and thus had no access to notions of proof, the scientific method and so on, so its unsurprising they assigned religious significance to what they had received.

You'd think a more sceptical society would be less susceptible to believing the absurd claims of individual members, and question the likelihood of his claims, particularly now where people have access to contradicting data, for instane authentic Hieroglyphic interpretations that are unlike anything Joseph Smith ever supposedly translated.

Like I said, this can be said for Christianity in general and in fact all religion, but it confuses me more with Mormonism and such modern-day cults that can't claim any sort of metaphorical interpretation and don't have a long-standing tradition with multiple accounts of revelation (Eg. Virgin Mary turning up pretty much everywhere), as in these cases people often perceive some form of 'truth' in the fact that millions of others share their belief and have done for millenia.

This was a great thread.

Long Story Short: I'm a somewhat healthy 32 year old, I think I ate bad sushi that put me in the hospital for a few days since I was literally paralyzed.

My wife was getting behind in the housework since we have two small children, and a few mormon missionaries came by. They stayed with her and cleaned our entire house. When my wife came to the hospital the next day, I kind of laughed at her about it saying she was brainwashed.

So she was pissed, and she said give it a chance. I said, "OK, I'll listen to what they have to say". They came by a few times, and we ended up going to their church or whatever it's called.

Like what draws in people, everyone there was super friendly. I was impressed.

It seems like from what has been posted in the last posts were a little more conservative than the people I met. Some things that are forbidden, they seemed to explain the point, but it wasn't bad as long as it doesn't turn into an addiction (Gambling, Coffee, etc).

We would probably continue to go there, but we have two small children, one is autistic. I didn't feel right about having members watch my kids while they were listening to the sermon or whatever it's called since all members were in there during the first hour.

We ended up going to a large commerical-ish church with a nice daycare, coffee shop with a big watered down message.

-Burning bush spoke to Moses, tablets given to the Jews.-
Its an old story. These are metaphors. Taking them for literal fact is moronic.
Its a fundamental statement about claimed legitimacy at the base of a civil society. 'Who made these basic rules sir'? 'Well son, God did.' end of story.
Its works better this way because to say 'Well son, I made the rules, and I have a gun, so follow them' is a bit harder to sell.

Excellent post.

The Mormons are the best that I have seen as far as walking the walk.

I was doing some heavy yard work once when they walked by in their white shirts and ties, and they actually wanted to help me.

It was not a bluff.

Yes I convinced 23 people. I have tried to contact the ones I that I had information on, but most of them had moved or the mail doesn't get there etc. Do I regret it? Kind of complex, one on hand I do because the religious aspects of what I did were not ultimately true, but a lot of what I did was more "life coaching" in the sense of helping people get off their feet, solving problems, building and fixing things for random people, etc. there was a lot of espirtu de corps that I liked. I have told others, if there was a secular version of a mission I would do it in a heart beat.

Well as a poster has said before critical analysis of church leaders lives and documents ect. aren't in the religious mainstream. Also, if you believe in God you believe that miracles re possible etc, basically the rules of logic get thrown out , and Mormon theology is appealing if you throw out things like critical analysis, empirical evidence etc. as I think you are saying below.

Well a lack of long running tradition also means a lack of years of disillusion. With the longer running religions there are literally hundreds if not thousands of incidence of adherents of that religion acting atrociously. So the lack of history means a lack of a lot of "bad incidents". So a religion can come off "shiny and new" and seemingly can hold up to the ideals of what supposedly God could be. Not sure if that makes sense.

As for a specific indoctrination method there isn't one, other the standard sales techniques. From the inside out, "selling" religion is exactly the same as selling anything else for a long term commitment. Find a need, lay out the information that will " resolve" the need, resolve doubts, "make the sell", help with buyers remorse. No secret decoder rings, no hypnotism

I agree with the posters above that mentioned Mormons being very kind and hardworking people. My sister converted in her early teens, so I've always been someone interested in the Mormon church.
I am a devout atheist and am generally very much against organized religion. I think the Mormon doctrine is poppycock, and that there is no way people as smart as my sister can believe the stuff they teach. My normal reaction would be to ridicule the religion. But ever Mormon I've met has seemed to be a genuinely nice person. I'm sure they probably don't believe a lot of the doctrine they are taught, but they like the Mormon lifestyle. If the state weren't so right-wing politically I think Provo would be a very nice place for me to live. Last time I was there, I was walking from my sister's apartment to the place I was staying, which was only seven blocks. It was raining. Two separate cars stopped and offered me a ride. I can't imagine that happening in the Suburbs of Detroit where I live. I think the net impact of the Mormon church on society today is positive, which I can't say for most religions.

Magic underwear plz.

Great post.

I agree. The are the nicest, best behaved denomination that I am aware of. Ironic, since their founding is so bizarre.

In case anyone does not know, they are particularly despised by almost all of Christianity. Mormonism helps expose the folly of Christianity in general, and they do not have professional clergymen, which is a real threat.

But of course they did massacre 120 men, women, and children. Exposes the danger of believing in superstitions and having power.

After the massacre, the corpses of the victims were left decomposing for two years on the open plain, the surviving children were distributed to local Mormon families, and many of their possessions auctioned off at the Latter-day Saint Cedar City tithing office. Doing God's work.

Historians attribute the massacre to a combination of factors including war hysteria fueled by millennialism and strident Mormon teachings by senior LDS leaders including Brigham Young.

Millennialism is a belief held by some Christian denominations that there will be a Golden Age or Paradise on Earth in which "Christ will reign" for 1000 years prior to the final judgment and future eternal state (the New Heavens and New Earth).

Some of the murderers, in white shirts and ties:









You all knew this, didn't you?

Most people don't know about it except for those who watched September Dawn ( the movie was historically inaccurate though). Most Mormons aren't aware of it either, more are aware of the various conflicts through Illinois and Ohio between Mormons and various neighbors, not all of which were purely defensive on the Mormon's part.

Also more fun facts in history

What about it?

Where do I get it and how much does it cost

lol you get them at the temple, but you have to show your temple recommend ie proof that you are a member in good standing so you just can't walk in and get them. They are slightly more expensive than say a tank top and boxers but not by much.

I can get you some, slightly used (and all the more blessed!) for say, $20,000.