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Old 01-17-2009, 04:05 PM   #76
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Re: Anyone believe in the rapture?

Watch this...

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Originally Posted by BigErf View Post
Yes, the Ten Commandments are humans' original Laws given to Moses. Those were what humans demanded mankind to live by. But as history shows, mankind is unable to adhere to them so instead of humans killing each other we gives ourselves the easiest alternative; believe in love. Because if you believe in love then you accept humans.
See how easy it is? We're so close to the same viewpoint, you just feel a need to assign the name "God" to what is actually the end result of humans just feeling compassion for each other and finally deciding to not kill each other. You give so little credit to humans and the human mind, you do not realize what the human mind is capable of.
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Old 01-17-2009, 04:10 PM   #77
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Re: Anyone believe in the rapture?

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Originally Posted by All-In Flynn View Post
I'm pretty sure you mean Noah, unless we've been reading different Bibles.
Yes, my mistake. I meant Noah.

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What is it about guys ****ing other guys that creates 'disorder'? God specifies that 'it is an abomination' - it says nothing about disorder, or about being civil. Guylove = abomination = kill them. Where do you get the balls, basically, to start putting words in your own god's mouth? You kill them because it's an abomination, not because that will somehow 'keep things civil' (lol).
Love between a man and a woman is what God intended. Or He would have Created Adam and Earl.

Quote:
Again, I think we're at least on different translations of the Bible here. Jesus didn't hit Earth immediately after the Flood, as your post would imply (you seem to be saying the Flood and the coming of Jesus were somehow linked).
I have a pretty good understanding that the two are seperated. I don't know why you think I implied otherwise.

Quote:
Also: you're saying god tried something and it didn't work. And that god then adjusted itself to suit the problem. This has major theological implications - nowhere in the Bible does god admit to a mistake, and in fact the general tone of its statements seem pretty down on the notion of that even being possible.
I didn't say God tried anything. I said God placed man in a perfect environment. From there we were given the will to do as we choose. This is not Gods mistake, this is what happened.

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So... what changed? Was it god? Did god change?
What do you mean, "what changed"? Life didn't change, life happened.
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Old 01-17-2009, 04:14 PM   #78
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Re: Anyone believe in the rapture?

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I didn't say God tried anything. I said God placed man in a perfect environment. From there we were given the will to do as we choose. This is not Gods mistake, this is what happened.
So God placed man, who is imperfect, in a perfect environment, and waited to see what would happen? Obviously man would make the perfect environment imperfect, and not the other way around.

Also, God is omnipotent, so he would have known what would happen all along to Adam. Why even bother going through all that, all this 5 billion years? Why not just put us all in heaven to begin with?
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Old 01-17-2009, 04:17 PM   #79
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Re: Anyone believe in the rapture?

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Exactly AllinFLynn.

Christians love to flip flop between the New and Old testaments picking and chosing what they like. If you grill them about crazy verses in the Old Testament. They do just what Bigerf did and say that is why we have the new testament now.

However when they want to throw around Homosexuality as an abomination they are right back up in the Old Testament.
You guys are killing me here!?!?

How do you flip flop the conclusion of a book? There's a beginning and an end. Do you ever read half of a book and consider that to be the story?

I don't know whats up with the homosexuality thing. God shows disgust for it just as equal as lying or murder or adultry. It's all wrong in Gods eyes and that's why mankind is not worthy of salvation on his own. But through Jesus, man can repent for his sins and be given the gift of eternal life. What's so hard about understanding this? Or is this your way of denying? Make everything such a big issue that it appears I have no idea what I'm talking about in order to make yourselves look better?
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Old 01-17-2009, 04:19 PM   #80
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Re: Anyone believe in the rapture?

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I like rules and laws that way there are no misconceptions. Could you point me to the rules for sins in the New Testament that I should live by.
I could, yes, but then you'd find a way to throw it at me so why don't you read the New Testament so that you can witness first hand what it is saying. And if you have any questions about it, then come post.
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Old 01-17-2009, 04:20 PM   #81
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Re: Anyone believe in the rapture?

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You guys are killing me here!?!?

How do you flip flop the conclusion of a book? There's a beginning and an end. Do you ever read half of a book and consider that to be the story?

I don't know whats up with the homosexuality thing. God shows disgust for it just as equal as lying or murder or adultry. It's all wrong in Gods eyes and that's why mankind is not worthy of salvation on his own. But through Jesus, man can repent for his sins and be given the gift of eternal life. What's so hard about understanding this? Or is this your way of denying? Make everything such a big issue that it appears I have no idea what I'm talking about in order to make yourselves look better?
That was a few pages back. But anyway onto the New Testament. I was looking for the scriptures that outlined what was and wasn't a sin.
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Old 01-17-2009, 04:21 PM   #82
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Re: Anyone believe in the rapture?

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Watch this...



See how easy it is? We're so close to the same viewpoint, you just feel a need to assign the name "God" to what is actually the end result of humans just feeling compassion for each other and finally deciding to not kill each other. You give so little credit to humans and the human mind, you do not realize what the human mind is capable of.
The human mind has created this debacle.
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Old 01-17-2009, 04:24 PM   #83
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Re: Anyone believe in the rapture?

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So God placed man, who is imperfect, in a perfect environment, and waited to see what would happen? Obviously man would make the perfect environment imperfect, and not the other way around.
There is nowhere that states man was imperfect before the Garden of Eden.

Quote:
Also, God is omnipotent, so he would have known what would happen all along to Adam. Why even bother going through all that, all this 5 billion years? Why not just put us all in heaven to begin with?
I cannot answer this question.
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Old 01-17-2009, 04:26 PM   #84
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Re: Anyone believe in the rapture?

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That was a few pages back. But anyway onto the New Testament. I was looking for the scriptures that outlined what was and wasn't a sin.
You don't need to concern yourself with this. Once you accept Jesus then the Holy Spirit will guide you.
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Old 01-17-2009, 04:27 PM   #85
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Re: Anyone believe in the rapture?

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You don't need to concern yourself with this. Once you accept Jesus then the Holy Spirit will guide you.

Oh come on what a cop out.
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Old 01-17-2009, 04:29 PM   #86
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Re: Anyone believe in the rapture?

But Adam would have to be imperfect, otherwise he would have followed God's orders.
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Old 01-17-2009, 04:32 PM   #87
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Re: Anyone believe in the rapture?

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I cannot answer this question.
I guess its just cause we are so important, the generation alive now, its just SO IMPORTANT, God felt the need for billions and billions of deaths to happen, and untold suffering to happen, just so this current generation could experience this consciousness and debate these subjects. And of course, our consciousness could never completely come to an end, that would be unthinkable, cause this generation is just SO SPECIAL and set apart from all the other ones that happened to fall in a different time period.
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Old 01-17-2009, 04:32 PM   #88
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Re: Anyone believe in the rapture?

2 Corinthians 10:7
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The trouble with you is that you look at me and I seem weak and powerless, but you don't look beneath the surface.
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Old 01-17-2009, 04:47 PM   #89
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Re: Anyone believe in the rapture?

Maybe this will do you better.

Avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the [Old Testament] law; for they are unprofitable and vain (Titus 3:9)
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Old 01-17-2009, 05:29 PM   #90
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Re: Anyone believe in the rapture?

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Love between a man and a woman is what God intended. Or He would have Created Adam and Earl.
So why is guylove possible?


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I have a pretty good understanding that the two are seperated. I don't know why you think I implied otherwise.
The OT sets the foundation for the existence of life and this was Gods way of maintaining order so to speek. Order of this sort had to be in place for mankind to live civil and accordance to His will. Obviously this didn't work so mankind (except Noah) was wiped off of the planet. Then a whole bunch of other stuff happened while Jesus was getting ready to be born... The New Testament is now what really shows God's nature and is the reason the Bible is in existence. Jesus was the reason for it. In the OT God had no mercy, but this was to maintain order. In the NT Jesus was Gods mercy.

I'm pretty sure it's a byproduct of your ad-hoc rationalising, but it's there clear as day.

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I didn't say God tried anything. I said God placed man in a perfect environment. From there we were given the will to do as we choose. This is not Gods mistake, this is what happened.
Quote:
this was Gods way of maintaining order... Order of this sort had to be in place... this didn't work
How is this not a swing and a miss for god? It had a 'way of maintaining order' which 'didn't work'.

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What do you mean, "what changed"? Life didn't change, life happened.
What changed, between the Old and New Testament, that meant god went from being a bloodthirsty, jealous tyrant to a happy magician in the sky? "Jealous" is a quote btw, "bloodthirsty" and "tyrant" are my own characterisations.
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Old 01-17-2009, 07:18 PM   #91
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Re: Anyone believe in the rapture?

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Once again, the Old Testament serves as a foundation. If the Bible is the inspired Word of God and He was trying to butter it up, don't you think He would have left out the OT? But He didn't, and it was for a reason. It was to show mankinds record. Record of existence and record of habit. We failed to live accordingly just as we do now, but now there's a way out, Jesus. God loved His people in the OT and that is why He was so demanding on our actions. He gave the will to act freely but without consideration to how terribly wrong this can go, strict rules need to be set in place. If God left it up to us then none would get into heaven. And for whatever reason God has planned, He wants us there so the NT was our salvation and His way to get us there.
I'm not talking about men doing bad things in the Bible. I'm talking about GOD COMMANDING people to kill entire populations.

Read Deuteronomy 7, it's enlightening. Pay special attention to the part where he makes sure all the women and children are killed as well, and to show no mercy.
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Old 01-17-2009, 09:24 PM   #92
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Re: Anyone believe in the rapture?

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I'm not talking about men doing bad things in the Bible. I'm talking about GOD COMMANDING people to kill entire populations.

Read Deuteronomy 7, it's enlightening. Pay special attention to the part where he makes sure all the women and children are killed as well, and to show no mercy.
I understand your questioning on this Justin A and it is a valid concern. When reading Deuteronomy you see a lot of repeated verses where God demands His people to obey Him. In 5:9-10 He says:
Quote:
You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me
Quote:
but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
In Deuteronomy 7, this chapter displays God's power in driving out the bad nations. He speaks of seven of them that will be handed over to His people and although these other nations are more powerful, God still delivers them. When words are spoken of "My people", this simply refers to those who accepted God as LORD during that time. And this was proof of God protecting His people, those who loved Him. When you read 7:3-4
Quote:
Furthermore, you shall not intermarry with them; you shall not give your daughters to their sons, nor shall you take their daughters for your sons.
Quote:
For they will turn your sons away from following Me to serve other gods; then the anger of the LORD will be kindled against you and He will quickly destroy you.
God is speaking of
Quote:
and when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them.
God is saying, "Wipe these bad nations off of my planet, get rid of them. Leave no survivors, do not make treaties, do not intermarry with them, wipe them out and do a complete job of it." And yes, as harsh as it sounds to kill women and children, it is done because these people were not people of God. And even though children are innocent, they were bad seed that would follow in the footsteps of their fathers.

In the Old Testament God DEMANDED respect and those who did not obey Him were killed. You have to understand that every human was created in Gods likeness and the meaning of that runs deep. Man needs order and authority. We are powerful creatures and when a bad seed is planted, the results can be devastating.

Because we were subjected to evil through Adam, our core is to do bad. Man cannot fight his temptations, they overpower us. God's authority in the OT demonstrated His love. The same as my love for my daughter. There are rules that I give my daughter that I demand she obey. And if not, I punish. But it's out of love that I do this because I know whats best for her at this age and she does not. Same principle.

So these horrific stories you read in the OT are really God fulfilling His promise to those who obey Him. You don't know what these other nations were like. They could have been bad, bad people. People with no regard for human life.

Think of what is taking place in the Middle East. We are ridding the world of bad nations. Think about Germany and Hitler. A bad nation was destroyed. If these events were written in a book and read by people two thousands years from now they may say, "Wow, those Americans are bad people. The wiped out nations, women and children".

You don't know that this was not Gods work also. America used to be One Nation Under God. And we helped the world rid itself of evil authority. But now problems are rising out of our own country and they are getting worse as we fall further from that One Nation Under God that we used to be.

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For they will turn your sons away from following Me to serve other gods; then the anger of the LORD will be kindled against you and He will quickly destroy you.
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Old 01-17-2009, 09:54 PM   #93
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Re: Anyone believe in the rapture?

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God is saying, "Wipe these bad nations off of my planet, get rid of them. Leave no survivors, do not make treaties, do not intermarry with them, wipe them out and do a complete job of it." And yes, as harsh as it sounds to kill women and children, it is done because these people were not people of God. And even though children are innocent, they were bad seed that would follow in the footsteps of their fathers.
Bad seed? Are you effing kidding me?

Good to see you think kids should be punished for the sins of their fathers.

Quote:
In the Old Testament God DEMANDED respect and those who did not obey Him were killed. You have to understand that every human was created in Gods likeness and the meaning of that runs deep. Man needs order and authority. We are powerful creatures and when a bad seed is planted, the results can be devastating.

Because we were subjected to evil through Adam, our core is to do bad. Man cannot fight his temptations, they overpower us. God's authority in the OT demonstrated His love. The same as my love for my daughter. There are rules that I give my daughter that I demand she obey. And if not, I punish. But it's out of love that I do this because I know whats best for her at this age and she does not. Same principle.
You don't KILL your daughter to punish her. If you did you'd rightly be called sick and demented. You refuse to see the truth that Israel committed genocide and justified it by saying God told them to.

Quote:
So these horrific stories you read in the OT are really God fulfilling His promise to those who obey Him. You don't know what these other nations were like. They could have been bad, bad people. People with no regard for human life.
I'm sure SOME of the people of these nations were. But God commanded Israel to show NO MERCY FOR ANYONE. Women, children, whatever. It's just sick that you think there's justification for it.

Quote:
Think of what is taking place in the Middle East. We are ridding the world of bad nations. Think about Germany and Hitler. A bad nation was destroyed. If these events were written in a book and read by people two thousands years from now they may say, "Wow, those Americans are bad people. The wiped out nations, women and children".

You don't know that this was not Gods work also. America used to be One Nation Under God. And we helped the world rid itself of evil authority. But now problems are rising out of our own country and they are getting worse as we fall further from that One Nation Under God that we used to be.
America wiped out the women and children of Germany? What are you talking about? As far as I know that's not the case, and if it were I'd think it was appalling. Almost as appalling as the fact that you think genocide can be good and justifiable.
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Old 01-17-2009, 11:38 PM   #94
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Re: Anyone believe in the rapture?

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Bad seed? Are you effing kidding me?
No, I'm not kidding you.





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You don't KILL your daughter to punish her. If you did you'd rightly be called sick and demented. You refuse to see the truth that Israel committed genocide and justified it by saying God told them to.
If I punish my daughter for breaking one of my rules it's so she doesn't grow up to behave like the children above will.

Quote:
I'm sure SOME of the people of these nations were. But God commanded Israel to show NO MERCY FOR ANYONE. Women, children, whatever. It's just sick that you think there's justification for it.
No, God commanded Israel to show NO MERCY for the unholy nations. And if you believe that I support genocide then we have no further business talking.

Quote:
America wiped out the women and children of Germany? What are you talking about? As far as I know that's not the case, and if it were I'd think it was appalling. Almost as appalling as the fact that you think genocide can be good and justifiable.
I was talking about Nazi Germany.
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Old 01-18-2009, 12:58 AM   #95
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Re: Anyone believe in the rapture?

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[You guys] make everything such a big issue that it appears I have no idea what I'm talking about in order to make yourselves look better?
You're doing a fine job of this yourself, without anyone else's help.

Dude, when you start throwing in pictures of muslim children as some sort of excuse for the genocide supposedly commanded by God in the OT, you don't make yourself look very good.

(A) God was a genocidal maniac

(B) Israel was just another nation of the time -- prone to war and genocide -- and used God as an excuse for their atrocities (just as other nations used their gods)

I choose B. But I don't believe the Bible is the inerrant "Word of God", so I can do that. You can't. You have to try to convince us that God was not a genocidal maniac.

Good luck with that.
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Old 01-18-2009, 01:10 AM   #96
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Re: Anyone believe in the rapture?

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And yes, as harsh as it sounds to kill women and children, it is done because these people were not people of God. And even though children are innocent, they were bad seed that would follow in the footsteps of their fathers.
Quote:
No, I'm not kidding you.
**** you dude. you are the scum of the earth you pathetic ignorant ****. how do you go through life every day and never realize how ****ed up you are?

for future reference, if you ever find yourself saying something that sounds bat**** insane but you go ahead because you think it's what the bible is telling you, just ****ing STOP and consider that maybe you actually are saying something bat**** insane!

Last edited by Sephus; 01-18-2009 at 01:15 AM.
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Old 01-18-2009, 01:19 AM   #97
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Re: Anyone believe in the rapture?

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**** you dude. you are the scum of the earth you pathetic ignorant ****. how do you go through life every day and never realize how ****ed up you are?

for future reference, if you ever find yourself saying something that sounds bat**** insane but you go ahead because you think it's what the bible is telling you, just ****ing STOP and consider that maybe you actually are saying something bat**** insane!

I guess this is another way of saying what I was thinking.
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Old 01-18-2009, 01:47 AM   #98
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Re: Anyone believe in the rapture?

2 TIMOTHY 2:23-26
Again I say, donít get involved in foolish arguments which only upset people and make them angry. Godís people must not be quarrelsome; they must be gentle, patient teachers of those who are wrong. Be humble when you are trying to teach those who are mixed up concerning the truth. For if you talk meekly and courteously to them they are more likely, with Godís help, to turn away from their wrong ideas and believe what is true. Then they will come to their senses and escape from Satanís trap of slavery to sin which he uses to catch them whenever he likes, and then they can begin doing the will of God.
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Old 01-18-2009, 01:56 AM   #99
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Re: Anyone believe in the rapture?

sanctimonious prick. i beg you, go buy some books and don't leave the house until you're no longer a threat to the civilized world.
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Old 01-18-2009, 02:23 AM   #100
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Re: Anyone believe in the rapture?

you are special. you are important. you have something to give. you have something to teach. you will never die. you will always be loved. you will never be alone.

i know these are comforting lies. i used to believe them too. i can't expect you to give them up.

but please try to see how monstrously disgusting this thought is:

Quote:
God is saying, "Wipe these bad nations off of my planet, get rid of them. Leave no survivors, do not make treaties, do not intermarry with them, wipe them out and do a complete job of it." And yes, as harsh as it sounds to kill women and children, it is done because these people were not people of God. And even though children are innocent, they were bad seed that would follow in the footsteps of their fathers.
do you know who's a bad seed? i am. who lives in a country full of bad seeds? we do. and you know who might have possession of a nuclear weapon sometime in the next century? people like you who are too cowardly to face the fact that they are not special, they are not plugged into anything transcendent, that they are not the favored of god, that they are going to die like everything else. they're going to say things to themselves, things essentially identical to things you've said in this thread, and they're going to come and kill me, kill my family, and destroy things that i find wonderful. and then, if they can, they're going to come kill you too. because we are a bad nation, we are not people of god, our children are bad seed. how the **** can you not understand that?
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