Signs of the Times

When Jesus’ disciples asked Him about the signs that would be a precursor to His coming and the end of the age His response, recorded in Matthew 24, was:

o Wars and rumors of wars
o Nation will rise against nation. It is very interesting to note that the Greek word that is translated as nation is "ethnos" which deals with ethnic background and race. Most of the wars and conflicts in the 1980's and 1990's are wars among ethnic groups and tribes.
o Kingdom will rise against kingdom
o Famines
o Earthquakes are “like the early pangs of childbirth.”As the time grows nearer and nearer to His coming, the frequency and intensity of these five signs will increase.
o The followers of Jesus will be handed over to be persecuted and killed. This is happening with more frequency in the Moslem controlled nations in the Middle East, and in Africa where Black Moslems are enslaving Black Christians.
o Christians will be hated by all nations on account of His name. In many parts of the world, Christians are jailed and killed for their beliefs; in the United States those who are Christians are hated by the media and liberals, and are known by the code words "religious right."
o Many will fall away...that is, many who claimed to be Christians will recant their faith, and betray and hate Christians.
o Many false prophets will arise and deceive many.
o Due to excessive lawlessness, the love of many will grow cold.



Here is more crap for you. Even has bullet points for simplicity.

I live in the desert only I shall survive when the flood comes

Where is it written?

This is what's written. http://www.donina.org/rapture.html.

And I suppose all Aussies are rational science fearing folk? I have high hopes for this forum and posts like this do seem to be a bit on the trollish side.

As far as a rapture actually happening, I think it takes a leap of faith to pull such things from the bible. The bible never mentions a rapture. If that's really what was intended for you to understand, it would have come right out and said it. You wouldn't have to take parts of several different verses, weave them together to get to, "BEAM ME UP SCOTTY"

only real way to find out is to kill him right? not sure on the tradition here

Do you think the driving force behind terrorism in the world is a "lack" of faith? Do you think the problems in North Korea are a result of a "lack" of faith in their president (who has been dead for over ten years)? Do you think 9/11 happened because certain Muslims "lacked" faith in their God?

Wouldn't the correct statement be: "A lack of faith is a frightening and dangerous prospect and has caused and will continue to cause much suffering for many people across the world."[/QUOTE]

No. Faith in God/Gods has historically lead to murder, sectarianism, abuse and continues to yield these results in the present climate. Let me break it down into some examples for you:

The twin towers would be standing today and those who perished would be with their families if it wasn't for the faith of those men who carried out this disgusting act rationalised only by their faith.

My country Northern Ireland tore itself apart with two communities separated by differing sects of Christianity warring over this land.

Sectarian violence continues to tear Iraq apart again with two sects of the one Religion mindlessly slaughtering each other over differences in their faith in the bloodline of their prophet.

These are all modern events directly and undeniably linked to faith and I could continue to give examples of faith tearing the world/communities apart in the last decade until my fingers bled.

I'll leave you with a simple point and a nice quote to get your teeth into. There would be no suicide bombers without the faith that drives them.

"Religion is based . . . mainly on fear . . . fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand in hand. . . . My own view on religion is that of Lucretius. I regard it as a disease born of fear and as a source of untold misery to the human race."

Bertrand Russell

I thought they were fighting over a "United Ireland"

Indeed this was the political element of the struggle which manifested itself directly through sectarian violence and segregation. As a direct result of you having access to the internet you have the opportunity to educate yourself to some degree on a subject before blindly posting responses. I advise you to do so in the future and if there is anything you are unclear on after a little research ask away.

Sure, it was trollish, but I am actually interested in the subject and the thread has generated some decent discussion and we now have a dedicated rapture thread for future reference!

I'm sure there are some Australians who believe in teh raptures but from browsing raptureready.com it would have to be over 95% of people pedaling this crap are from the USA or Canada. It strikes me a bit strange that so many from a new country like the USA have suckered onto this interpretation of the bible whereas its basically unheard of in the old world (europe) and the even the holy land where all of these fairy tales were made up in the first place.

One more interesting point is the importance the rapture believers place on Israel, protecting Israel etc because apparently the Old Testament claims the jews to be god's chosen people. To me this isn't surprising at all, the old testament pretty much IS the jewish torah, it was written by jews, of COURSE they're God's chosen people. Why would you write anything else?

An unwillingness to hold responsible the individuals who commit these acts themselves is the reason you can justify placing the blame upon God. But it is simply inconceivable that a life dedicated to following a Word that promotes Love and self worth would perceive these messages as commands to carry out destructive acts upon the very life that the Word cherishes. And anyone who does so is not following their Gods will, but their own.

I cannot speak for Islam but going off of a conversation between Jibninjas and ILOVEPOKER929 it does not sound as though a Muslims duty is to kill:

Now I can personally speak for Christianity and the message from God in the Bible is LOVE. His love for us. In fact, the Bible is Gods proof of His love for us. The Bible is the instruction booklet on how to live in peace for eternity. Anyone who portrays the Bible as a book of violence is gravely wrong and has a personal agenda in doing so.

And personal agenda is what drives extremists. These people are not religious but rather using religion as their excuse to fulfill the acts that consume their criminal minds.

Within all of the sects of Christianity the church has a financial worth in the trillions. Well enough money to solve some problems of humanity. But instead, we divide. It is human err that divides mankind, not Gods instructions to do so. Anyone that humbly reads the Bible will undoubtedly interpret passages in their own unique way and this is what makes the Bible so powerful. The Bible is meant to open the mind of the reader but I don’t think there’s a person alive that could convince me that the message of the Bible is to kill those who do not adhere to it. And I would be surprised if the Koran was different.

There are passages in the Bible that speak of Gods wrath in the Old Testament. The OT is the foundation of the Bible and this world. To understand the world God has intended for us, these are the accounts to which led to the opportunity God gives for our redemption. I’m not educated in the writing of the Koran but I imagine the books have some similarity. If these extremists who you say are living out Gods instructions were focused on finding the true message their book portrays, how do they come up with the idea that destruction is the path to salvation?

True religious believers study the Word and find meanings to interpretations. They form with others and dedicate their lives to transforming themselves into what God has intended for them. Anyone who commits himself or herself to this understanding WILL NOT receive a message from the Bible or Koran that supports murder. It’s just not possible.

Do you think Muslim terrorists right now are huddled up studying the Koran to find Allah’s instructions on how to destroy the world or do you think they are conforming over explosives material and educating themselves in the art of mass destruction? Think about it.

It’s plain ignorance to say that these people who commit such acts are so much more educated in their beliefs that they found the True message God wants us to see.

Can I just say there dear boy I'm afraid your completely ignorant of the Muslim faith and totally unaware of its teachings. The religion is a violent one preaching hatred and vengeance in contrast to its other teaching concerning love. Infidels (me, most other posters here) are subclass and inferior collection of people. Suicide bombers are indoctrinated[B]by their Koran[/B. They learn hateful passages where Jihad is promoted and described, and only through their FAITH are they convinced to commit evil acts..

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that other attribute that God gave us. Common sense.

Yes, I am unaware of it's teaching but have read a few posts that would contradict you:

This is painfully false, as has been demonstrated by many Muslims and Christians throughout history. How can you say suicide bombers are misinterpreting the word of God when they have in fact spent far more time studying their holy books than you have, and are far more religious and faithful to God than you are?

One who seeks God is seeking good. One who seeks good doesn't misinterpret and turn killer.

i have that platitude on a coffee mug somewhere imo

The true pursuit of God is a personal one. If done on your own behalf, you will find Him and He will not tell you to kill. Those who are told what God’s intentions for them are, are under the authority of the one directing, not God. Do you see the images of children in the Middle East with AK47’s praising Allah and vowing to kill the infidels? Do you think they read in the Koran that Allah told them to believe this, while searching for the Truth at 12 years old?

I agree that the world would be a much better place if children were protected against religious indoctrination of all kinds. Unfortunately, we have American children being sent to church and labelled Christians from the day they're born, and the same thing happening with Muslims in the Middle East.

Part of studying is gathering information from reliable sources and using your own judgement (common sense) to interpret what it is in question. If I was thinking of committing an act of atrocity I would at least google it to see what others think. In less then a minute I found: So now back to your question: Well, maybe they just don't want to interpret it the right way..

You didn't really answer. Yes or No would be good.

RGT is brand new. We can start any traditions we want. What would you suggest?

From the time I can remember I went to church in my youth and went to Catechism every Wednesday. I was raised Catholic and couldn't have cared less about it. When I turned 16 I stopped going, except for maybe Christmas or Easter. And now 15 years later I haven't been inside a church and have no plans on going.

But I came back to God on my own and would now die for my Christian belief. Because I've investigated it on my own behalf and found validity in my searching. It would be wrong to NOT teach children of God their Creator, but it must be done with respect. If you protect children from religious indoctrine you deny them the Truth and this is where we as adults go wrong because most don't care enough to investigate it themselves. So this in turn results in a world that we live in today.

I don't think "truth" means what you think it means....

clever dodge by you imo