"Old School" works for me, lep. If someone wants to come on these boards and claim to be a prophet, they better be serious....

You will definitely find like-minded individuals who support whatever atrocity you want to commit in the name of religion. All suicide bombers have surely done this. Your argument that terrorists haven't studied their religions closely enough, or have misinterpreted scripture for which only you understand the true meaning, is quite ridiculous. The notion that you would carry out an atrocious act in the name of God if you were able to google it and find some people whoa agree with you is rather frightening.

I thought it was clear that I meant before I would commit such an act, I would check with google to make sure I didn't misinterpret what I read. You know, flying a plane into a building is pretty hard core and had the terrorists googled "Kill the infidels" they may have realized that it's not what they thought it meant. And thus, saved their lives.

Wow, see, you really got to ask questions when you're faced with something that doesn't sit right. I wish all people would be as thorough as you Janabis.

And FWIW, terrorists may have studied scripture closely enough but it might not have mattered cause you know, they're terrorists.

Yes you were perfectly clear. And your notion that people can check google to confirm whether their religious beliefs are right or wrong is so naive I can hardly believe you're seriously suggesting it. Al Qaeda has access to google just like you do and will gladly support terrorist attacks against infidels in the name of Islam. Terrorist organizations even use the web to recruit new members. Google isn't going to save humanity from the evils of religion. I'm honestly flabbergasted that you're suggesting the people behind 911 would have cancelled their plans if they had checked google to see if killing infidels was okay.

Firstly I will give examples of some people who have found "god" and followed the personal message relayed by "it":

Quote from guardian website(http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa):

"One of the delegates, Nabil Shaath, who was Palestinian foreign minister at the time, said: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I am driven with a mission from God'. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did."

"He represented a God to me that was so beautiful that I'd do anything for him. I'd do anything for God. Even murder, if I believed it was right. How could it not be right if it is done with love? I have no remorse for doing what was right to me. I have no guilt in me."

* Susan Atkins

"Those who are told what God’s intentions for them are, are under the authority of the one directing, not God."

Can't blame them. If your gonna be lead by an invisible all powerful wizard you need your shepherd down here to guide you. Religions need their false prophets and hypocritical leaders to interpret a message that was never given, to make sense out of your bible, to tell you how to live, to exert control over you. It has always been this way. Pretty hard to be under the authority of God when he is not here. It is that ****ing simple.

Those who truly believe to have contact with their God seem to hear a reflection of what they want to hear. Funny that isn't it. Murderers are told to murder, power hungry warmongers are told to go to war, good honest decent people are told to help humanity, to work for charity etc.... This is the case because they are hearing themselves, they are looking for answers within themselves, and so they find confirmation of what they want to do. This can be just as twisted in many ways as when they herded into action bt their shepherds.

Whereabouts are you from, and what age are you? If you're not levelling, you're quite atypical.

So my point then is correct that it is not God behind these acts of atrocity, but the men who decide for themselves to carry them out. So there is really no "evils of religion" as you put it, but rather people using religion as an excuse to kill. Because had they really been seeking the true Word of God it is quite clear that one is able to (rather easily) find true meanings to a passage that another would use as their right to kill.

So I stand firm on what I said, that it is a "lack" of faith in God that is the result of this world. Gods message is not to kill, it is to love. So what is this "faith" that terrorists have? You tell me.

You are absolutely correct and I'm not suggesting that these terrorists would have cancelled because they weren't concerned with the Truth. Had they been, a quick google would have told them, "Oh s**t, I was bout to crash a plane because I really thought Gods message was to kill". This proves that their agenda was not religion, it was TO KILL!

But you're talking about different gods. (I know, all Abrahamic or Abramic or whatever it is, but still. Different book + different prophet = different sky-wizard.)

'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'

'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'

'Osama, go murder innocent people by flying planes into two buildings'

'Osama, have your men commit suicide by strapping themselves with explosives and walking into movie theaters where there's innocent people'

You tell me what sounds like more plausible instructions from God?

The message of the Koran is not to kill.

Convert them to Muslims or convert them to corpses. Pretty explicit. Let's see Google dance around that one.

Oh yeah, and:

Given that God commands his people to commit genocide in the old testament, it's very hard to tell what's more plausible.

After a little search I have found quite a bit of contradictions on this subject. Some sites claim that the Quran is really a book similar to the Bible and expresses love, and others justify what you are saying about it being violent. After reading a lot of translated verses I will admit that the book does seem to be that of a violent nature.

But without knowing what the entire context of the book is I cannot determine what is trying to be portrayed. One thing comes to mind and that is the Old Testament in the Bible. Just as your passage from Leviticus shows a violent nature, it shouldn't be judged as God being a violent entity. The OT sets the foundation for the existence of life and this was Gods way of maintaining order so to speek. Order of this sort had to be in place for mankind to live civil and accordance to His will. Obviously this didn't work so mankind (except Moses) was wiped off of the planet. The New Testament is now what really shows God's nature and is the reason the Bible is in existence. Jesus was the reason for it. In the OT God had no mercy, but this was to maintain order. In the NT Jesus was Gods mercy.

Now if someone was to open up the Bible and read just a part of the OT then they would get the wrong impression. The whole entire book needs to be read in order for the "feeling" of Gods will to be understood. I don't know if this can be related to the Quran or not. I do admit that this verse 9:5 is a violent one but without knowing the entire context it's hard to find it's true place.

Once again I'll show what one site declares on this verse:

And I found this also which I thought was interesting:
I'm not sure exactly what my take is on this yet but it sounds as though the true meaning of the Quran may not be present.

When you say didnt work do you mean God made a mistake?

Once again, the Old Testament serves as a foundation. If the Bible is the inspired Word of God and He was trying to butter it up, don't you think He would have left out the OT? But He didn't, and it was for a reason. It was to show mankinds record. Record of existence and record of habit. We failed to live accordingly just as we do now, but now there's a way out, Jesus. God loved His people in the OT and that is why He was so demanding on our actions. He gave the will to act freely but without consideration to how terribly wrong this can go, strict rules need to be set in place. If God left it up to us then none would get into heaven. And for whatever reason God has planned, He wants us there so the NT was our salvation and His way to get us there.

So we do not have to adhere to the laws of the Old testament. We are just on the new testament now? Also aren't the Ten commandments in the Old Testament?

pretty easy to paraphrase things how you like them

So basically you are claiming to be a prophet. You are telling me that you understand God's message, and that it is to love, not to kill. Who said that is His message? How do you know God's sole goal isn't to kill? Its all open to interpretation, thats whats so great about the Bible!

I'm pretty sure you mean Noah, unless we've been reading different Bibles. Now:

What is it about guys ****ing other guys that creates 'disorder'? God specifies that 'it is an abomination' - it says nothing about disorder, or about being civil. Guylove = abomination = kill them. Where do you get the balls, basically, to start putting words in your own god's mouth? You kill them because it's an abomination, not because that will somehow 'keep things civil' (lol). Continuing:

Again, I think we're at least on different translations of the Bible here. Jesus didn't hit Earth immediately after the Flood, as your post would imply (you seem to be saying the Flood and the coming of Jesus were somehow linked). Also: you're saying god tried something and it didn't work. And that god then adjusted itself to suit the problem. This has major theological implications - nowhere in the Bible does god admit to a mistake, and in fact the general tone of its statements seem pretty down on the notion of that even being possible.

So... what changed? Was it god? Did god change?

Exactly AllinFLynn.

Christians love to flip flop between the New and Old testaments picking and chosing what they like. If you grill them about crazy verses in the Old Testament. They do just what Bigerf did and say that is why we have the new testament now.

However when they want to throw around Homosexuality as an abomination they are right back up in the Old Testament.

No, God didn't make a mistake. The Bible says that God created man in a perfect environment. This is not saying that evil was not present, but that we didn’t have knowledge of it. The fall of man refers to Adams mistake in the Garden of Eden. Adams mistake led to sin and the result of sin is death. Once we have knowledge that we can do wrong, we are capable of doing wrong. And this is where our free will comes in. We can choose to do what we know is wrong but only once we know it’s wrong.

God didn’t want us to know of this possibility because, well, you can figure it out. But without allowing the possibility to will freely, we cannot do as we wish. So the test was:

Genesis 2:15-17
This would imply that there was no death had Adam not eaten from the Tree of Knowledge. And this world as we know it would be different. It would still be perfect. God wanted mankind for a reason and that reason still exists. If God says that we wouldn't be doomed to die then that implies an eternal life. Just like the one He says we can have through acceptance in Jesus. This cause is still out there waiting to be fulfilled.

It's plausable to say that we are in a waiting period in order to gather as many "saved" people as possible because what is to take place next is what God wanted to happen in the first place.

But now to answer your question if God made a mistake. No. He had to start over with just Moses because the way it was in the Old Testament, no one would live eternally because of sin. We, mankind, were not worthy because we couldn't follow Gods laws. God wanted a perfect world but from the very first human (Adam) it was clear that we wouldn't be worthy. But remember, He still created us for a reason so He couldn't end mankinds existence completely, so He had to start over.

Remember this world we live in is real. Real consequences require real acts. God didn't just snap His fingers to change us, something had to be done. The Genesis Flood. People think God is a like you in physical form but He's not. Jesus is but that's irrelevant here. God is transcendant to matter and energy and space and time. He is all. He was the flood, He was the process that Created. So it IS which causes. IS doesn't snap fingers. That's not how things get done in this world. Appropriate consequenses require the appropriate acts.

God didn't mess up, but the world we live in is an alteration (which we caused) that will ultimately lead to the result God intends for. We just chose the hard way, that's all.

lol, this is all so hilarious. what is the point of all this. why didnt god just create heaven and put us all in it. why leave one man up to decide the fate of humanity?

You cannot adhere to the laws of the Old Testament. It's not possible.

Yes, focus on the New Testament. Jesus is all you need to be concerned with.

Yes, the Ten Commandments are Gods original Laws given to Moses. Those were what God demanded mankind to live by. But as history shows, mankind is unable to adhere to them so instead of God condemning us all He gives us the easiest alternative; believe in Jesus. Because if you believe in Jesus then you accept God. Jesus was here to perform miracles and literally prove Gods existence by doing the impossible. So in turn if we believe this account and acknowledge it then we are free from all sin we condemn ourselves to by not following the Ten Commandments. It's that simple.

But further, once we accept this fact, a change takes place in ones soul. The work of the Holy Spirit enters and starts to guide your life. This is what is meant by "handing authority of your life over to Jesus". You no longer want to act or engage in the sinful activities that you have because your mind is being washed of all the wrong that this world teaches. It really happens in this way.

More then just His message.

I like rules and laws that way there are no misconceptions. Could you point me to the rules for sins in the New Testament that I should live by.