No, I don't think you can move Jesus to another time, place and culture. He is too intimately bound to Messianic prophecy and also an embodiment of the Jewish feasts as well as the fulfillment of the Law.

IOW Jesus is placed very specifically in time and place by God.

That was not what I meant at all.


Also, I was curious if you still see Galtung's comments to have any value.

I'm not particularly hung up on Galtung. I was just surfing around to see if there were any political objections to Buddhism's efficacy in Buddhist societies and I came across Galtung's.

The funny thing is that Buddhism isn't tough enough to stand up to the communists. I doubt that Christians would roll over in the face of oppression so easily. Christians would more likely have to be conned into submitting to governmental tyranny. In general Christians are more socially activist than Buddhism and activism is a sign of internal strength or energy.

It was a case of very sloppy fact checking on the Galtung thing. Another way to phrase it is "bearing false witness".

When you have a group of peaceful people with no real military whatsoever they do tend to get rolled by people with automatic weapons. Millions of them were butchered. Saying that christians would have done any different in the same circumstances is just silly. What religion do you think the Russian Orthodox were in 1917? What religion do you suppose the English were in 1066 (what religion do you think the French were that repressed them)? What religion do you suppose the Lutherans and Catholics were in Germany in 1933? What religion do you reckon the Irish were in 1845-1850 when about a million were ethnically cleansed (for that matter what religion do you reckon the English were that committed the atrocity)? I could keep going with this until my fingers bleed. How can you be so uninformed about facts and persistently offer inaccurate things as truth? Further how can you be so arrogant about christianity? This isn't in the tone of what Jesus taught at all. Even if you are right you are wrong.

By the way you do realize you religion explicitly demands that you be a loyal slave right?

Why are you getting so reactionary? They didn't have a military most likely because of their nature which in a way validates what I said above. People with a military are less likely to be attacked.

And Galtung IS an alternate opinion. Some people look at things sociologically...just because you're not familiar with alternate sociological opinions doesn't make them invalid.

You keep saying things that are false, inflammatory, and outrageous. There is nothing wrong with being ignorant as long as you are making an effort to learn.

The flat-earth theory is a dissenting opinion to the round earth one....it does not mean it is just as valid. You are now standing by again what I showed you to be false and suggesting I am ignorant for not knowing this. That is just amazing.

I wish you every good thing. This kind of intellectual laziness and disregard for the truth can only cause you suffering.

Nevermind...I am trying to exit the thread...you don't have to dominate every opinion that isn't in agreement with yours you know...whether it be right or wrong...that's one of the reasons for doing meditation...to let go of aggressiveness....

Reading between the lines, at least she seems to be admitting that she's wrong!

I don't think there's anything in buddhism which would say to just let wrong arguments lie? Isn't it the opposite? Don't buddhists apply vigourous challenges to ideas? And encourage debate?

Yes.

The buddha strongly admonished everyone to have no faith in him whatsoever.

The pursuit of wisdom should be done with a very critical way of thinking. This is probably why so many people that think critically find it appealing.

In Tibetan buddhism they have debate courts that vetted every single opinion they have. But they are not satisfied with that. Always critical.

The whole thing is about rejecting delusion and untruth. Softly lovingly and kindly as possible. Which sometimes is not all that gentle if someone just does not get it and they are doing themselves harm. : )

Don't read anything between the lines....the truth is I'm not that interested in the thread...I did a little research and turned up an alternate opinion....and because you've set Buddhism on a pedestal you can't even see the possible pros and cons of it...

Right now the Dalai Lama is in asylum in theistic India ...

I haven't expressed an opinion on this: mainly because I don't know enough to. From what I've seen buddhism has some positive things to offer to individuals. Doesn't mean I want it being the foundation of my government!

I know the difference between a fact and a lie. Honest opinion would have been fine. It could have been discussed in a very productive way.

It is certainly not faultless. But your perception of christianity bears no resemblance to reality. There are lots of great online concordances. I don't even go downstairs to pick up my Super-Strong's anymore...there is just no need. Fact checking is so easy in modern times. There is just no excuse nowadays for not being able to find good bible references. The buddhist stuff I gave many solid sources for you to educate yourself. Instead you just made one after another of false attacks.

I certainly don't envy you your side in the debate though. But it would be a fun challenge.

Splenda making such a fool of herself itt looooooool. Why is he "getting so reactionary"? Maybe because you're spouting off bull**** about a topic you cleary don't understand.

Did not think there ever would be a thread in 2p2 I would respond to but Splendour made this one irresistible.

Buddha would never convert to christianity . The early teachings are very strict on impermanence which makes any god or soul impossible.

http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma8/imperm.html

Is the best link I found to explain this. A really good book to read is:

http://www.amazon.com/What-Makes-You.../dp/1590304063

Personally not a Buddhist but my girlfriend is and I quite like the way she thinks.
Except for the vegetarian bit as nothing comes between me and my steak.

Probably back to lurking again unless I think this thread deserves another post.

Um, welcome?

Did anyone read The truth of nature by Buddhasada Bhikkhu? I found it quite interesting.

Haven't read it, could you elaborate on the book?

@ Kentucky, thanks for the links, will check them out!

@ splenda, please stop ruining this thread

Great thread. Great contributions, especially from KentuckyBuddha (thank you for contributing your time, your explanations have helped my understanding).

Splendour your contributions to this thread could not be any more out of place or embarrassing for you.

Seconded.

You probably already know this, but in case others don't -- many Buddhists are vegetarians out of compassion for animals, but Buddha never required it even from his ordained monks.

Have not read that one, but his Handbook For Mankind is a good introduction to Buddhism and it's free:

http://www.buddhanet.net/budasa2.htm

I would also recommend What the Buddha Taught by Dr Walpola Rahula as a great introduction.

And if you want to go beyond that and get into the real meat, go with In the Buddha's Words by Bhikkhu Bodhi.

For a beginning meditation manual, try Mindfulness In Plain English by Ven. Henepola Gunaratana.

All are availabe at any bookstore, Amazon, etc and they're fairly cheap because they're printed by not-for-profits.

Some very good study guides if you just want to read more on a particular topic are here: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/study/index.html

And a little bit of everything is here: http://buddhanet.net/

India's government is secular afaik.

Also im pleasantly surprised you would include Hindus into theism. I thought they where demon worshiping sinners.

I want thank Kentucky Buddha and others for their insight.

Splendour- I believe the thread is "Any Buddhists here?" from someone interested in learning more about Buddhism.

I have been learning about Buddhism and practicing meditation for the past 2 years and more regularly over the past 6 months. I’ve have learned more in these past 6 months about myself and about life than in the first 26 years of being raised Catholic. It has “shown” me things that I’ve been unaware of my entire life. I have become a far more compassionate person than ever before amongst other things.

During this short time learning about Buddhism I’ve have never been so hungry to learn. It has not required me to have faith in anything but rather has been able to show me. I would consider myself a logical person and maybe that’s why I’ve always had trouble accepting God. I have to be able to rationalize things before I can believe in them and blind faith was always troubling for me. In this short period of learning about Buddhism, all of what I’ve learned so far has made sense to me.

I am not as polished as most of you on this thread regarding Buddhism (or philosophy and religion for that matter) but I am eager to learn more about it. I have much more to add regarding this topic and my own practice. I also have questions and thoughts that I would like to share. It’s late and I hope to find time to add more on this tomorrow.

It's been a while since I read it, I am going to re-read it soonish when I have more time though. Anyways I'm not a buddhist, but this book gave me good insight about what is it all about. He's explaining the suffering well, and there are no magical things, about rebirth he said that if there's no self, then what is there to die/born.

I read this on another forum and was curious if kentucky knows more about it:

I am no expert on Tibetan buddhism, I am more a zen buddhist myself, but I have read a fair amount. I know nothing about this kind of thing being a part of their practice, but it does not make sense to me from what I do know. Tantrics are a different thing completely.

Basically Tantrics stay in the moment being mindful of sex. Nothing wrong with that, it is an effective way to be mindful as anything. But, Tibetan buddhist would see it as a pale way to get there. Just like driving a car 130 mph will certainly focus you on what you are doing at the time (I know I used to live in Germany), or even watching an engaging movie or whatever can do the same thing.

The best way to get to mindfulness and indeed happiness is through meditation on loving-kindness for all beings. The evidence is unimpeachable, has been repeated, and makes quite a bit of sense. Matthieu Ricard can lay in an fMRI machine and meditate on loving-kindness and even when you torture him by causing him pain, or doing blasts of white noise at the volume of a starter's pistol, etc etc (and he is far from the only one who can)... he is happier than I would be if a mob of horny Victoria's Secret models were molesting me--what would be the point? It isn't a guess if he is happy, his left side pre-frontal cortex is lit up like Las Vegas.

Does not compute.

The issue with sex and dharma in Tibetan Buddhism is that one of the ways you can raise your conciousness is through having sex. We all know that statement is true anyway.

I've been studying the highest teachings of the Tibetan tradition (Dzogchen) for 2 years now and have come across nothing in those teachings on sex.

Except in this very famous Thangka
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...ed=0CBYQ9QEwAQ

I wouldn't blame someone from hiding something that may block someones way to liberation from suffering. This I believe is compassion in action.