yes i agree with the words but the context i don't. The future that doesn't exist is human form and suffereing. There is no suffereing in the present moment, and no 'human'. Suffering comes when the human says 'I am suffering'. When the human doesn't 'think' or reflect on 'the suffering' there is no suffering and no human.

This is what i think is obvious and logical.

If that's what you think. However, I don't think that is the Buddhist perspective on it.

All things are impermanent and constantly changing - that's the fundamental misunderstanding of ego, of everything - that's suffering. Through awareness I think it can be transformed... Or at least the perspective on it. I think you still experience suffering, but it is the relationship with suffering that is transformed. It's no linger this fundamental problem.

I have no idea asdf, I only read a little bit

IIRC, one of the Dalai Lama's teachers who spent a ton of time teaching him was David Bohm (I think this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bohm) who is obviously a boss. He had some other well known teachers also, and the DL is very gracious to his science teachers, crediting them for the shaping of much of his worldview.

Perhaps, but we already discussed the relationship of the differences between different Buddhist sects, and the difference possible between Buddha and Buddhism.
'All things" yes but our true nature is not a thing as it doesn't rest in time and space. But yes the 'ego' wants to be permanent, yet it is not and this is the source of suffering.

Yes 'choiceless awareness' this is awareness not corrupted by thought.

I don't really want to go towards this way, but I should point out that this may 'solve' YOUR suffering but it does not touch OTHERS suffering. So in this I think we are in danger of succumbing to our conditioning in serving the self?

And Bohm was taught by jiddhu krishnamurti as was bruce lee.

Dalai Lama is a phony KGB agent . This has nothing to with Buddhism.
Pure land or Zen, other Buddhist practices are not for real.
Tibetan Buddhism is a mix and is by no means the teachings of the Buddhas.
The problem with Buddhist philosophy and Taoism is very big. The way of the warrior is not understood by western people ,nor the way of the sky and the meaning of the void.
Modern western Buddhism is a mix of new age crap and can be represented by the movie Kung-Fu Panda. Where the warrior/ Buddhist ways are presented in the typical western ideology. The Zen master T.D. Suzuki is good presentation of how the zen ideology turns in to crap once spoken to western people. Look at this Slavoj Zizek video. This is the best presentation of the the problems that Buddhist philosophy faces since the western people got involved.
Look the whole Brooklyn school of Psychological analyses is based on T.D. Suzuki some of the sickest and anti-human ideas ever !
Slavoj Zizek- higher learning : probably the best confrontation of fake Buddhism and problems in Buddhist ideology. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kugiufHh800
he is just starting his work on this . We,the "real" western Buddhist could not wait for the book !

New age people will hardly every understand that they are devil worshipers.
"Look for Buddha outside your own mind,
and Buddha becomes the devil."

Dogen

''There are thousands upon thousands of students
who have practised meditation and obtained its fruits.
Do not doubt its possibilities because of the simplicity of the method.
If you can not find the truth right where you are,
where else do you expect to find it?"

Dogen

"Respect Buddha and the gods without counting on their help”

― Miyamoto Musashi

Bodhidharma: Even if a buddha or bodhisattva should suddenly appear before you, there's no need for reverence. This mind of ours is empty and contains no such form. Those who hold onto appearances are devils. They fall from the Path. Why worship illusions born of the mind? . . . The basic nature of a buddha has no such form. Keep this in mind, even if something unusual should appear. Don't embrace it, and don't fear it, and don't doubt that your mind is basically pure. . . . Also at the appearance of spirits, demons, or divine beings, conceive neither respect nor fear. Your mind is basically empty. All appearances are illusions. Don't hold on to appearances. If you envision a buddha, a dharma, or a bodhisattva and conceive respect for them, you relegate yourself to the realm of mortals. If you seek direct understanding, don't hold on to any appearance whatsoever, and you'll succeed. . . . The sutras say, "That which is free of all form is the buddha." Disciple: But why shouldn't we worship buddhas and bodhisattvas? Bodhidharma: Devils and demons possess the power of manifestation. They can create the appearance of bodhisattvas in all sorts of guises. But they're false. None of them are buddhas. The buddha is your own mind. Don't misdirect your worship.

Bodhidharma (c. 440 AD - 528 AD)

So this is enough evidence to suggest that 90% of the western Buddhist are on the wrong page .

If you are a poet, you will see clearly that there is a cloud floating in this
sheet of paper. Without a cloud there will be no water; without water,
the trees cannot grow; and without trees, you cannot make paper. So
the cloud is in here. The existence of this page is dependent upon the
existence of a cloud. Paper and cloud are so close.

- Thich Nhat Hahn

I don't agree. The fact that Buddha spoke to other people about the 4 Noble Truths, 8 fold path and method and wisdom seems to contradict your statement.

If people were to keep their mouths shut and jealously guard a secret, then maybe.

Remember you have to join Method and Wisdom.

One can not reflect in streaming water. Only those who know internal peace can give it to others.
Lao Tzu

this.

But not this... That sounds like NKT propaganda BS.

LOL, this was proven long ago.
Are you by any chance from USA? If yes well dude if they had brain washed me as much as they brainwash you guys over there...I would be probably in your position now
http://http://thesantosrepublic.com/...ferian-agenda/

And this is not my source, but it has official documents so you can't discredit this information by any means .

I meant CIA not KGB but it is irrelevant, since evil is evil no matter what name it takes.

So hr worked with the CIA to rid Tibet of China... Color me shocked.

Luciferian New World Order? Really?

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I do not pay attention to small details. Plus the Luciferian ideology is long time on the open.
And new world order is an idea that was born in theosophic/ luciferian circles. Look the cover of The Beatles why do you think that they have Alister Crowly the beast there?
Actually most of my teachers in the University where Luciferian. Most those people have PhD. from Harvard. But yeah if you think you are smarter then them ,let it be your way I am a crazy conspiracy theorist

lolconspiritas.

''The serpent is the symbol and prototype of the Universal Savior, who redeems the worlds by giving creation the knowledge of itself and the realization of good and evil.''

— Manly P. Hall; The Secret Teachings of all Ages

This where the term Illuminati comes from. The universal light of Lucifer, blah, blah, blah.

To think its the 'western' mind that corrupts buddhism is another trap. Its not the certain hemisphere of the globe (or mind if we want use to further the analogy) that corrupts the true teachings. These teachings were carried by many different beings around the globe throughout time. Each teaching or light was corrupted the moment it started being passed down and conveyed through time. In this we can see some carried it correctly and did not corrupt it themselves and those around them began the deading process of system and memory.

We should clearly be able to see ts not the western mind, but the unintelligent mind that does this-the mind that doesn't fully understand these things. That same mind looks the world and the past and blames causality and individuals that don't exist in the first place.

I think you will find the things I'm pointing out directly correlate with the issue you are pointing out.

They don't though, they lead to this understanding. They are not for the self, they are to eradicate 'self'. But we've already pointed out its impossible for them not to be corrupted by the time the hit our hears. Or better yet like buddha and jesus we should be able to understand this without dogma.



a and then in that we have salvation.
I think this is akin to Christianity in that we are to put our faith in dogma and in that we have salvation. But the logical observable problem with this world is that we are ignorant to its horrors.

I am claiming this belief we must use buddhism to simply accept our human form, is this conditioned belief corrupting buddhism.

there is another way.

Irradicate the ego, see your true nature as the whole, salvate the whole.


this statement above IS method and not wisdom.

A university student while visiting Gasan asked him: "Have you ever read the Christian Bible?"
"No, read it to me," said Gasan.
The student opened the Bible and read from St. Matthew: "And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow. They toil not, neither do they spin, and yet I say unto you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these...Take therefore no thought for the morrow, for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself."
Gasan said: "Whoever uttered those words I consider an enlightened man."
The student continued reading: "Ask and it shall be given you, seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened unto you. For everyone that asketh receiveth, and he that seeketh findeth, and to him that knocketh, it shall be opened."
Gasan remarked: "That is excellent. Whoever said that is not far from Buddhahood."

Well as you said, the teachings would lead to the end of an individual's suffering. I was just pointing out that you can then teach to others. In fact, you should probably beaware of your own suffering and its cessation before hand.

That is what I meant by keeping the secret, it only becomes self serving if you don't reach out and connect with others.

I don't think you can eradicate the ego, that is impossible... Ego is unavoidable. But you think otherwise, which is fine - it just wouldn't be labelled Buddhist.

Anyhow, your last statement is right.. generally talking about method, not the wisdom (though some is in there).

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We need to end the suffering through ending the individual, anything else is just more suffering. In this, ending our own suffering first is perpetuating the never ending battle, self IS suffering.

This is what I meant by Christianity. Spreading 'individuality' salvation.

But I can show you this isn't true, so you can see it for yourself. If we can go into it.

Correct, but it is the teaching of Buddha, the real teaching.

Possibly but i think true wisdom is not partial. Nonetheless we haven't destroyed method, it just has a peculiar place in relation to total wisdom

Correct , self is suffering - but you will never get away from it.

I have asked several times for your logic, but you haven't obliged. Please do, I would lije to see your work.

Have a bit of a high opinion of yourself, you have the real teaching of the Buddha? But Buddhists don't? C'mon man..



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Dunno what are you guys talking about . I am Zen Buddhist and we say:
''If you meet the Buddha, kill him.''

For me there is no Buddha.
The Buddha is your real body, your original mind.
We do not praise Buddha, we just look for him inside of us.
"To find a Buddha all you have to do is see your nature.''
Bodhidharma

Real Buddhism is like Christianity, it is not about words but about action.
Words are illusion. They can only stray you from your Buddha nature .

Sounds like you have totally missed what buddhism is pointing to then

There isnt a you to get away from it, thats the whole point.

I question this, bigtime. I'd certainly like to point out that its not logical to conclude the latter from the former. Meaning the former doesn't imply the latter.

We still have to get rid of a piece of your conditioning, that is the belief that you can't get away from it. We ned to reopen that possibility that we can rid the ego or self completely and totally.

Lets not do this, Buddha was not buddhist, nor was jesus christian, this is obvious. Whats more important is if you give this enquiry a serious look, you will see its true for yourself. You see you say i have a high opinion of myself, but i dont' validate the individual, you think buddha is above us, but buddha didn't validate the individual either. That makes it your misinterpretation of buddhas teaching that makes you think that me saying i understand him puts me above you or makes me think I am above you or others buddhists.

Nonetheless when you look at it you will see it for yourself, first of course we must accept the possibility


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