AntiNatalism & a guy called Gary. - Religion, God, and Theology

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AntiNatalism & a guy called Gary.

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05-20-2012 , 10:20 AM

remski

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Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,317

So I watched this youtube show with a bunch of people discussing antinatalism and it seems like this Thunderf00t character (who interviewed R. Dawkins) is kind of silly and not that great at arguing that antilnatalism is invalid and what not. Watch and leave a comment or opinion if you feel like it. Thanks to twoplustwo and such for letting me utilise this lil' community to share stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYvoWeSKwkk

Last edited by remski; 05-20-2012 at 10:22 AM. Reason: Thunderf00t is Xavier

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05-20-2012 , 12:10 PM

asdfasdf32

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What about such a time in the future when suffering, via technology, could be reduce to nearly zero (from the human perspective)?

(only watched part 2)

Last edited by asdfasdf32; 05-20-2012 at 12:16 PM.

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05-20-2012 , 02:28 PM

remski

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Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,317

that's the main argument that the unkempt fellow from Mendham seems not to address very well. He just gets all emo about the suffering of kittens and accuses the opposition of being prone to "rainbow fluffy rabbit cute popsicle fantasies, and such".

I enjoy watching it play out. Suffering is bad and all, but that exact point asdfasdf imo

.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/47...larity-750831/

i guess the stuff skelatori addresses about finding a miracle scenario + all that sisyphus logic is a big factor...

Last edited by remski; 05-20-2012 at 02:34 PM. Reason: more stuff.

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05-20-2012 , 02:32 PM

remski

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Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,317

as you can tell, this is a ramble-ish thread, so chime in w/e, no biggie. I thought some people may have watched yt user: Inmendham also. Quite funny at times, in a kooky way.

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05-20-2012 , 02:38 PM

remski

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Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,317

what i mean by 'emo' - one of his fan's tribute-ish videos - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWPgntL-IuU

Last edited by remski; 05-20-2012 at 02:38 PM. Reason: what more can i say, the guy likes antinatalism...

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05-21-2012 , 11:34 PM

smrk2

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I regret that Geico caveman is the spokesman for a legitimate philosophical view that should be taken seriously

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05-21-2012 , 11:39 PM

asdfasdf32

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Quote:

Originally Posted by smrk2

I regret that Geico caveman is the spokesman for a legitimate philosophical view that should be taken seriously

Can I infer from this that you are an anti-natalist?

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05-22-2012 , 12:05 AM

smrk2

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Sort of, but I wouldn't say for sure. I'd prefer the super class of 'negative utilitarian'.

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05-22-2012 , 12:15 AM

asdfasdf32

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Quote:

Originally Posted by smrk2

Sort of, but I wouldn't say for sure. I'd prefer the super class of 'negative utilitarian'.

At the very least, a much more 'reasonable' claim.

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05-22-2012 , 12:56 AM

#10

smrk2

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well I do think that the existence of humanity has been on balance a very regrettable thing, but whether anyone has a right to end it is a separate question

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05-22-2012 , 12:58 AM

#11

asdfasdf32

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Originally Posted by smrk2

well I do think that the existence of humanity has been on balance a very regrettable thing, but whether anyone has a right to end it is a separate question

Why has it been regrettable?

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05-22-2012 , 01:12 AM

#12

smrk2

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Quote:

Originally Posted by asdfasdf32

Why has it been regrettable?

In short, because the nature of the lows is so much worse than the highs. I couldn't justify the sum of all of the most blissful experiences people have ever had against the protracted torture of just one human being.

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05-22-2012 , 01:44 AM

#13

asdfasdf32

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Quote:

Originally Posted by smrk2

It seems like your doing a math problem with unknown quantities here, and can't really justify the above statement.

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05-22-2012 , 02:04 AM

#14

smrk2

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Originally Posted by asdfasdf32

It seems like your doing a math problem with unknown quantities here, and can't really justify the above statement.

How would you justify a contrary statement? It may not really be about justifying the statement, it's an axiom you either accept or reject. You can apply this just to yourself, what price would you pay for a hundred thousand years of bliss? A pinprick? Ship it. A punch in the face? Hit me baby one more time. Dentistry without anesthetics? Once was probably enough. A cudgel to my man-parts? Yikes. Getting 'boated' like Mithridates? I'll take oblivion.

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05-22-2012 , 02:14 AM

#15

asdfasdf32

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Quote:

Originally Posted by smrk2

I wouldn't justify a contrary statement, I'm simply rejecting yours. And a hundred thousand years of bliss? Boat me up.

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05-22-2012 , 02:18 AM

#16

smrk2

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Quote:

Originally Posted by asdfasdf32

I wouldn't justify a contrary statement, I'm simply rejecting yours. And a hundred thousand years of bliss? Boat me up.

Do you have a number or a fuzzy range for the amount of bliss that would be insufficient for you to endure that experience?

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05-22-2012 , 02:41 AM

#17

asdfasdf32

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Quote:

Originally Posted by smrk2

Do you have a number or a fuzzy range for the amount of bliss that would be insufficient for you to endure that experience?

Sure, but you're going to have to describe bliss since it's such a fuzzy term. As a cut to the chase, I'd argue that you would get a mostly positive answer if you could ask the whole of humanity (just after death) if their life was preferable to not living at all—even if they suffered so much as to "out-weigh" the bliss they experienced.

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08-02-2012 , 06:56 PM

#18

remski

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Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,317

These two videos http://www.youtube.com/user/fulfilledobligations/videos

against this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVyJQFHlSFs

actually, the latter is probably best watched first - other guy is more entertaining though!

The Inmendham fellow has a whole cult-ish thing going now, called 'Efilism' (life spelled backwards).

Google for more...

They've been discussing this red button (destroy the world to end suffering) thing for a while on youtube now.

Back to Aliens though - because it's hard to ignore.

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08-02-2012 , 06:59 PM

#19

remski

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Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,317

probably is more smp-ish, this whole subject - being a philosophy and all. oh well

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08-02-2012 , 07:05 PM

#20

remski

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Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,317

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V04rsHn0j6I

I think he says some fairly intelligent stuff, among the rhetoric. Watch out for the 1min mark for lol's, if you're into schadenfreude that is!

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