American Christianity's Response to Donald Trump - Page 3 - Religion, God, and Theology

Its a fair question. I think I am arguing that the statistics about increased hate crimes are misleading or false, and that it doesnt make sense to blame trump. That the narrative that trump is a racist xenophobic misogynist hater is false.

It seems like you are blaming trump for both sides. That is, if right wing people protest, or do "hate crimes" its trumps fault. If left wing people protest, or do "hate crimes" its trumps fault.

I suppose its possible that right wingers will become emboldened by what they see as a more racist environment, and left wingers will become incensed by the same thing.

Calling FBI statistics misleading is a very serious claim, which should be backed up by strong evidence. I see no reason to doubt them.

I don't care about "sides". The most important part of civilization is given by the word itself, civility. When we elect leaders that can't be civil, we're saying that civilization is a bad idea. And the conclusion of this implication isn't about "sides", it's about the very foundation of our societies. And we will reap what sow, and if we spend those days still blaming "sides", I guess that's just poetic justice.

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06-20-2017 , 03:09 PM

#52

batair

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Originally Posted by neeeel

I dont know anything about housing discrimination laws. Are you telling me that a landlord HAS to rent to anyone that asks him? How did this particular situation with trump break housing discrimination laws?

I cant comment as I dont know which speech you are referring to. I doubt that he was just saying "ban all muslims. For ever. For no reason" though

Any reasoning on why he is not racist?

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06-20-2017 , 03:33 PM

#53

neeeel

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Originally Posted by Aaron W.

But instead of worrying about the labels, I would encourage you to actually look into the behaviors.

Im not sure what means?

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06-20-2017 , 03:55 PM

#54

neeeel

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Originally Posted by batair

Any reasoning on why he is not racist?

Are you saying that anyone who doesnt rent someone their house, is a racist if the person is black?

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06-20-2017 , 04:03 PM

#55

batair

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Originally Posted by neeeel

Are you saying that anyone who doesnt rent someone their house, is a racist if the person is black?

I'm saying what is your reasoning for thinking he is not a racist?

Won't ever answer a question but wants endless answer from others.

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06-20-2017 , 04:08 PM

#56

neeeel

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Originally Posted by batair

I'm saying what is your reasoning for thinking he is not a racist?

Won't ever answer a question but wants endless answer from others.

Why would I think he is racist? Im not sure what you mean by "reasoning for thinking hes not racist" . I dont see any reason that he is racist, therefore I dont believe he is a racist.

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06-20-2017 , 04:27 PM

#57

Aaron W.

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Originally Posted by neeeel

Im not sure what means?

Let's say we stopped using the label "hate crime" and just started looking for instances of things like "swastika drawn in a public place" or "noose found in public place."

Now think about the statistics in light of this information instead of worrying about whether or not to label some other type of incident a "hate crime."

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06-20-2017 , 04:27 PM

#58

batair

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Originally Posted by neeeel

Why would I think he is racist? Im not sure what you mean by "reasoning for thinking hes not racist" . I dont see any reason that he is racist, therefore I dont believe he is a racist.

Alright I guess. But he is and you are an apologist for racism. At least trump
pulls the wool off.

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06-20-2017 , 04:28 PM

#59

Aaron W.

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Originally Posted by batair

Alright I guess. But he is and you are an apologist for racism.

This is also the sort of thing that liberals do without realizing how much it actually hurts them when they do it.

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06-20-2017 , 04:28 PM

#60

neeeel

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Originally Posted by batair

you are an apologist for racism

Nope

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06-20-2017 , 04:30 PM

#61

neeeel

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Originally Posted by Aaron W.

I dont know if it was intentional, but I find it interesting that your examples are "swastika" and "noose"

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06-20-2017 , 04:43 PM

#62

batair

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Originally Posted by Aaron W.

This is also the sort of thing that liberals do without realizing how much it actually hurts them when they do it.

Not a liberal so it should hurt independents.

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Originally Posted by neeeel

Nope

Yup.

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06-20-2017 , 04:45 PM

#63

neeeel

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Originally Posted by batair

Yup.

How am I an apologist for racism?

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06-20-2017 , 04:55 PM

#64

batair

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You defend a racist.

Don't know he broke fair housing laws. Don't know what he said about a Mexican American judge. Don't know he said he wanted all muslims banned. Yet is ready to be a google apolgest.

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06-20-2017 , 05:06 PM

#65

neeeel

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Originally Posted by batair

You havent shown that breaking fair housing laws was racist

You havent shown that he said he wanted ALL muslims banned, or what he meant by that. You havent shown that saying that automatically makes you a racist ( for one thing, muslim isnt a race)

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06-20-2017 , 05:07 PM

#66

Aaron W.

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Originally Posted by batair

Not a liberal so it should hurt independents.

This piece seems relevant:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/03/o...een-state.html

It's too bad for you that "liberal" isn't a political affiliation. It's a description of the position being taken. But seriously, hiding behind labels and using labels as weapons isn't a useful thing for you to do.

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06-20-2017 , 05:09 PM

#67

Aaron W.

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Originally Posted by neeeel

I dont know if it was intentional, but I find it interesting that your examples are "swastika" and "noose"

They are specific to the reality of the situation. I care less about the "hate crime" label as much as I care about the actual behaviors. Instances of those two items are up.

So whether you want to say that "hate crime" statistics are "misleading" (a still unexplained term) is irrelevant. We are seeing an increase in certain types of behaviors intended to intimidate particular sub-populations. I don't care what you call them.

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06-20-2017 , 05:10 PM

#68

Aaron W.

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Originally Posted by neeeel

You havent shown that breaking fair housing laws was racist

The use of race as a method for determining whether to rent to a person can be considered to be a racist approach to decision-making.

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You havent shown that he said he wanted ALL muslims banned, or what he meant by that. You havent shown that saying that automatically makes you a racist ( for one thing, muslim isnt a race)

I think you're arguing in vain to make some point that's lost.

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06-20-2017 , 05:15 PM

#69

batair

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Originally Posted by neeeel

Not trying to prove it or answer your endless samntic qustion or show you. It's my opinion trump is a racist and you are being an apolgest for that racism.

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06-20-2017 , 05:16 PM

#70

neeeel

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Originally Posted by Aaron W.

The use of race as a method for determining whether to rent to a person can be considered to be a racist approach to decision-making.

Right, I agree that it could be racist. Did trump solely use race as a method? How could you know? Or did he just outright say it?
This is why I said,

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A racist would refuse to rent to african americans. But someone who refuses to rent to african americans isnt ( necessarily) racist.

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I think you're arguing in vain to make some point that's lost.

probably

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06-20-2017 , 05:17 PM

#71

neeeel

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Originally Posted by batair

Not trying to prove it or answer your endless samntic qustion or show you. It's my opinion trump is a racist and you are being an apolgest for that racism.

You realise your opinion means nothing?

You can keep asserting that trump is a racist, and that I am a racist apologist. That doesnt make it so

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06-20-2017 , 05:18 PM

#72

Aaron W.

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Originally Posted by neeeel

Right, I agree that it could be racist. Did trump solely use race as a method? How could you know? Or did he just outright say it?

http://www.npr.org/2016/09/29/495955...imination-case

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In this case, a black man in search of an apartment in Brooklyn in 1972 saw a sign on a building: "apartment for rent."

"He met with the superintendent, and the superintendent said, 'I'm very sorry, but the apartment is rented — it's gone,' " Morse says. "So the gentlemen said to him, 'Well, why is the sign out? I still see a sign that says apartment for rent.' And the superintendent said, 'Oh, I guess I forgot to take it down.' "

Morse says she reported her experience to the Human Rights Commission, and then returned to the apartment building. After she was offered a lease, the black man who had tried to rent the apartment entered the office with a city human rights commissioner, and the three of them confronted the building superintendent.

"He said, 'Well, I'm only doing what my boss told me to do — I am not allowed to rent to black tenants,' " Morse says.

The commissioner asked the building superintendent to take him to his boss. That turned out to be Trump Management.

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06-20-2017 , 05:22 PM

#73

batair

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Originally Posted by Aaron W.

Not sure about that for all conversations. But I'd agree mostly.

Thing is if someone says trump is not a racist I'm mostly going to give my subjective opinion on him.

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06-20-2017 , 05:23 PM

#74

neeeel

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Originally Posted by Aaron W.

http://www.npr.org/2016/09/29/495955...imination-case

Sure it doesnt sound good. but its not conclusive. Was this a policy in all his apartments? I am fairly sure I have heard about him renting to black people ( I could be imagining it though).

Out of interest, I think I remember you supporting christian businesses not being forced to serve gays. Would this be proof that christian businesses are homophobic?