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All paths up the mountain end at the same place All paths up the mountain end at the same place

12-16-2011 , 06:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by T!ghterThanU
Don't a lot of mountain paths lead to dead ends?
In my experience, most do.
All paths up the mountain end at the same place Quote
12-16-2011 , 12:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizard-50
I said that I would not label someone a Christian if they didn't believe Jesus is God. Surely I can disagree with someone on some of their beliefs and not all of them, and I don't think you're disagreeing with that. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

For example I think the post above is a disgusting degradation of Jesus Christ the Godman. At the same time I agree with his earlier post. What's the problem?
No problem. The point is in a thread about all paths leading to God we have to believers who would tell each other they are on the wrong path.
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12-16-2011 , 01:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by batair
No problem. The point is in a thread about all paths leading to God we have to believers who would tell each other they are on the wrong path.
Is it not possible for 2 people who claim to be believers, to both think they have the truth. But yet one actually not have the truth, even though he thinks he does?
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12-16-2011 , 01:19 PM
Yes, but the point is that even if you have 2 people who both think they have the truth, and both are wrong, that both their paths still lead them to god eventually. So, irrespective of path, and the rightness or wrongness of that path, all paths lead to god is the idea of the OP.
All paths up the mountain end at the same place Quote
12-16-2011 , 01:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by neeeel
Yes, but the point is that even if you have 2 people who both think they have the truth, and both are wrong, that both their paths still lead them to god eventually. So, irrespective of path, and the rightness or wrongness of that path, all paths lead to god is the idea of the OP.
I understand but the idea is wrong, all paths do not lead to the true God. The creator of heaven and earth.

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Mat 7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
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12-16-2011 , 01:52 PM
How do you know that you are not one of the people who thinks they have the right path, but dont really...
All paths up the mountain end at the same place Quote
12-16-2011 , 01:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pletho
Is it not possible for 2 people who claim to be believers, to both think they have the truth. But yet one actually not have the truth, even though he thinks he does?
Sure, when dogma takes the place of spirituality.

Anyway, my interpretation of the excerpt is that there are different ways/methods to attain a detachment from the ego-self (‘I’ or ‘me’) and it’s that said detachment which leads one up the mountain to God, not the particular methodology.
All paths up the mountain end at the same place Quote
12-16-2011 , 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by duffe
Sure, when dogma takes the place of spirituality.

Anyway, my interpretation of the excerpt is that there are different ways/methods to attain a detachment from the ego-self (‘I’ or ‘me’) and it’s that said detachment which leads one up the mountain to God, not the particular methodology.
Doesn't that mean the path which doesn't detach form the self doesn't lead up the mountain?
All paths up the mountain end at the same place Quote
12-16-2011 , 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizard-50
I said that I would not label someone a Christian if they didn't believe Jesus is God. Surely I can disagree with someone on some of their beliefs....
Yes, but ponder this. There is the trinitarian Jesus and the non-trinitarian Jesus. This is not a mere disagreement over beliefs. One of them is "another Jesus". One of them is godly. And the other is of the anti-christ.
All paths up the mountain end at the same place Quote
12-16-2011 , 05:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pletho
But the true God does not live in temples made with hands.....
That's funny because if you'd actually read the text you quoted, you would see that that is exactly what it's saying.

But maybe you meant something stupid, like that "temples made with hands" are all religions that are not your own.
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12-16-2011 , 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail Eris
That's funny because if you'd actually read the text you quoted, you would see that that is exactly what it's saying.

But maybe you meant something stupid, like that "temples made with hands" are all religions that are not your own.
Correct..... but not stupid, actually, well informed.

God does not even dwell in temples that are made by Christian hands. He does not dwell in church buildings.

He dwells inside every Christian believer, via the gift of holy spirit given unto them at the new birth.
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12-17-2011 , 06:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmargarine
Yes, but ponder this. There is the trinitarian Jesus and the non-trinitarian Jesus. This is not a mere disagreement over beliefs. One of them is "another Jesus". One of them is godly. And the other is of the anti-christ.
Speak plainly please. I'm not entirely sure what you're saying here, and I'd rather progress the discussion in a more meaningful way.
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12-17-2011 , 08:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by duffe
From The Book of One: the Spiritual Path of Advaita by Dennis Waite.

Bhatki is about devotion to and worship of a God and about humility. This may seem somewhat anomalous, since we have already stated that Advaita says there is no duality. There cannot be the Self* and a God. Bhakti is of the heart, not of the mind and, as such, is available to everyone. The idea is that, though this process begins in duality, the love of the devotee for his chosen deity eventually transcends this; the ego is subsumed and the ‘two’ merge into one. It is a technique that eliminates the negative – selfishness, fear and desire – and raises the man to the divine. Ramana Maharshi says that bhakti is giving up ‘mine’ whereas jnana is giving up ‘I’. Bhakti yoga turns outwards towards God, jnana yoga inwards to the Self. The bhakta longs for happiness, the jnani for the Self.

It is said to be the easiest path, for those whose intellect will allow them to acknowledge and surrender to a God, since the belief brings all of the comfort and reassurance traditionally associated with religion. All of one’s frustrations and pain can be ameliorated in the belief that God is actively assisting and ensuring ultimate success. Just as jnana yoga requires a particular type of mind – logical and enquiring – in order to be an appropriate path, so bhakti only appeals to a particular type of heart – one who can forget himself and give all of his attention and devotion to an external deity. Whereas the jnani eliminate the ego through reason, the bhakta does it through love and surrender. Both involve devotion, though the ‘object’ of that devotion may be perceived in different ways and both involve renunciation.

Although this process begins as ‘little me’ worshipping the all-powerful absolute from afar, it ends with ‘me’ disappearing as it is recognized that God and I are one. All paths up the mountain end at the same place as they say. In fact, dedicated worship of a god, thought of as single-minded attention to a specific object, is only effectively another form of meditation, irrespective of the extent that the practitioner believes in the ultimate reality of the god as something separate from himself.

___________________________________

*the ‘Self’ in Hindu Advaita is loosely defined (by me, here) as the real ‘I’ in contrast to an experience of individuality or ‘me’ and is a sort of non-personal, all-inclusive awareness of being. But others on here are better equipped to provide a more accurate definition, or "point towards" one.
Duffe why are you spending so much time on religions that predated Christ?

The reason why I ask is because I tend to think Jesus Christ and the NT is God's best example of the Way back to Him.

I don't think we're just humbling ourselves shooting for oneness with God and the universe. God is also lifting us up spritually as we are spiritually re-made in the image of Christ. Take a look at Paul's prayers in the NT particularly in Ephesians.

I can sense something beautiful in the old other religions too but I would make sure I'm not denying God his glory by not honoring Jesus Christ. I think God means Jesus Christ to have a place of preeminence. In fact in the rebuilding process it's very important that he remains central.

Maybe this is along the lines of what you're getting at: Man Fully Alive is the Glory of God - St. Irenaeus
http://www.crossroadsinitiative.com/..._Irenaeus.html

Last edited by Splendour; 12-17-2011 at 08:29 AM.
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12-18-2011 , 12:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splendour
Duffe why are you spending so much time on religions that predated Christ?

The reason why I ask is because I tend to think Jesus Christ and the NT is God's best example of the Way back to Him.

I don't think we're just humbling ourselves shooting for oneness with God and the universe. God is also lifting us up spritually as we are spiritually re-made in the image of Christ. Take a look at Paul's prayers in the NT particularly in Ephesians.

I can sense something beautiful in the old other religions too but I would make sure I'm not denying God his glory by not honoring Jesus Christ. I think God means Jesus Christ to have a place of preeminence. In fact in the rebuilding process it's very important that he remains central.
I don’t negate Jesus’ preeminence. I think man is in the image of God and Jesus is the Ideal of Man. That is, I think Jesus is the Idyllic Son (manifestation) of God and the Idyllic Son of Man.

As far as the antiquated religious views, non-duality is more a metaphysics, it’s not really a religion. So in regard to the relation between God and man, non-duality is every bit as valid a way of looking at things as the duality between God and man mainstream Christianity espouses.
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12-18-2011 , 09:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by duffe
I don’t negate Jesus’ preeminence. I think man is in the image of God and Jesus is the Ideal of Man. That is, I think Jesus is the Idyllic Son (manifestation) of God and the Idyllic Son of Man.

As far as the antiquated religious views, non-duality is more a metaphysics, it’s not really a religion. So in regard to the relation between God and man, non-duality is every bit as valid a way of looking at things as the duality between God and man mainstream Christianity espouses.
Thank you for explaining the concept. One of these days I will have to read up on it more. I may even have experienced it without knowing the philosophical jargon.

Maybe you're op is similar to Weil's ideas on theology:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simone_weil
All paths up the mountain end at the same place Quote
12-18-2011 , 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by duffe
I don’t negate Jesus’ preeminence. I think man is in the image of God and Jesus is the Ideal of Man. That is, I think Jesus is the Idyllic Son (manifestation) of God and the Idyllic Son of Man.

As far as the antiquated religious views, non-duality is more a metaphysics, it’s not really a religion. So in regard to the relation between God and man, non-duality is every bit as valid a way of looking at things as the duality between God and man mainstream Christianity espouses.
It's a very long journey duffe when you go back as far as you're going though I understand it because I did something similar myself just a few years ago trying to explain religious concepts to people.

The shortcut is to focus on Jesus Christ to get lasting results because our human minds are prone to backsliding.

From Philippians 4:

4 Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice! 5 Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. 6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. 7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
8 Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. 9 Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.
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