Strange.

When I type "define faith" in Google, the top definition says nothing about 'proof'...

(a) because my Google is malfunctioning? or
(b) because proof is irrelevant?

I just typed "faith"

what definition are you using?

in any case, what I was referring to was unjustified belief, believing beyond what is warranted or makes sense

we all do it but I don't think it's a good thing

and of course people disagree about what makes sense and what types of evidence are convincing

my issue with the concept of faith is that the way it tends to be invoked is when someone gives up on justification

and it's "bad faith" to claim I'm using faith to come to a conclusion when there's no reason to think that

Sure, but whether you're concerned with proof/justification is largely irrelevant to whether you and everyone, relies on faith/needs faith.

let's start over from the beginning

to show that I'm not using faith to come to the idea that faith is unnecessary, I could explain why I think that and maybe I will but that seems like a side-track to me

for now, let's just say I have my reasons and they may or may not be correct

1. faith is necessary

2. faith is not necessary

assuming we can agree on what "faith" and "necessary" mean and these statements are meaningful given those definitions, one of those statements is true and one is false

unless I can prove deductively that faith is unnecessary, there's nothing I can do to demonstrate it; iow, you can't prove a negative

on the other hand, all that's necessary to demonstrate the opposite is to show that someone somewhere needs faith

so let's start there

I don't think there's any situation in which believing something beyond evidence and reason is beneficial

am I wrong?

about this:

I'm not your enemy and I'm not looking for a battle

I like interesting conversations

so instead of making rudely sarcastic posts like this, I'd prefer for us both to assume the other is a human being with points of view that might differ from our own and maybe one or both of us can learn something from an exchange of ideas in good faith

Do you have any hope that your life will improve? or be slightly better in the future?

yes, and I have good reasons to think so

But you lack 'proof/evidence', which you've attributed importance to (not me)...

You might have a serious accident of some sort in the next 6 months for all you know, but you have faith that things will improve instead.

So to answer your own question: do you believe this faith to be beneficial to you?

I don't have any faith that I won't die tomorrow or be maimed in an accident or something.

That doesn't bother me and I don't see how such a strange delusion would be helpful.

I'm sure atheism can be a faith-based view (faith then in a relative loose sense; "to believe something with little or no evidence").

It can, however, also be a rational view. It would be the same kind of position that allows you to conclude that you don't have green goblins living in your basement.

The discussion is muddied by some people demanding that denying the existence of those goblins is also a faith-based view, as you can't "prove a negative". This is irrelevant because:

a) You can't actually "prove" anything outside systems of logic.
b) It would make any position faithbased, including that the position that any position is faithbased. So ultimately it contradicts itself.

They believe in invisible beings, claiming these beings interact with our world and our lifes every day. Yet they have no proof.

Please explain how this is not mental illness....

If I would tell everyone that santa claus is interacting with my life every day, claiming I do certain things because it pleases him, they would send me to the nuthouse sooner or later.

Yet I can run around and say that god always watches me without being locked away, strange isn't it?

It's very very simple: The bible and nutjob priests claim that god interacted with our "realm" at some point in time.

So far, no proof of interaction, just nutjob blabbering.

How stupid could it be to assume that god never existed?


Some nutjobs may find it beneficial to "believe" but if you "believe" in allah, you are basically accepting and even promoting murder and molestation.

Good to have religion, amirite

Because no one who works in psychiatry considers merely believing in God a mental illness. Try being less stupid and you will be more likely to offend people than have them point and laugh at you.

I agree with what you're saying here.

There is however a fine line at times when we start to include people who believe god is speaking to them personally.

Yeah I agree with this which is the work that merely is doing in my post but Rig really is a dickhead and it's unfortunate that someone so unqualified to laugh at others is doing so here.

You don't say!? Thanks for the lecture. They should start considering it nonetheless.
Also there are more than enough people in the nuthouse because they did something terrible after their "god told them to do it".

So let's just say that you are being considered mentally ill when you break the law and claim (a) god told you to.

Would be great if in that case your preferred deity would come down to clear things up, but well.......

lol, fair enough. I think about it when I'm finished laughing at your and uncle fester(ingzits) hilariously naive posts.

It wasn't a lecture it was a claim, however you extended your claim of mental illness to all people that believe in God hence you're a dickhead who doesn't understand mental illness or religion, or people for that matter.

Now I have told you previously if you actually want to offend people it helps if you aren't stupid. You should work on this.

And what is my preferred deity, can't answer maybe you have that wrong as well eh. This is not surprising given that the majority of people you have insulted for believing in fairy tales are atheists.

My understanding of religion is sufficient:

Cowards who are afraid of dying need something to hope for --> Religion.

That's all you need to understand, the rest is gibberish from mentally ill people.


LOL, thanks again for the lecture. At the moment your responses give me the impression that if I actually wanted to offend people, I'm doing a great job.

But then again, it's only a claim made by you, if you had a brain you would notice that I'm offering help to all those naive cowards out there.

Ummm, I'm totally aware that there are some strange people in here who actually do not believe but want to "discuss" religion...such an amount of stupidity deserves a heap of insults.

To be clear me calling an idiot an idiot does not mean I am offended it means I think they are an idiot, and you clearly do wish to offend people hence your tone but I have said to you before that if you wish to actually offend it helps not to be someone people point at and laugh.

You may try and work out why I think your last sentence self defeating but still you considering yourself guilty of stupidity is about the least stupid thing you've posted.

I'm sorry. I got carried away. I totally forgot that I should not make fun of handicapped people.

Live and let live, there's absolutely nothing wrong in believing made up unproven fairytales just to have some hope.

I'm pretty sure that during our discussion the delusions have been all yours.

A lot of people assume God exists and live their life as if he does. It is the same as me and you assuming we exist and living our life as if we do. Neither of us can prove we exit and the theist can not prove god exists.

I do understand how someone would prefer to live in a world with god over a world without one and I do not see it to be an issue with their mental capacity to reason.

I often wonder if 90% of scientists are non-religious because science lends itself to that conclusion, or if they're non-religious because religious people are more inclined toward other occupations. Other occupations that do not require high levels of intellectual honesty: admitting one simply doesn't know some things.

To that extent, someone could even do a study and check if religiosity associates with scepticism. I doubt it does (excuse the pun).

who's crazier, the people who hear voices in their head and think it's god talking to them (i.e. the starters of religions) or the people who take their word for it?

heads up: it's probably not wise to engage with a poster calling himself anything like Rick Astley