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Old 02-02-2009, 05:15 PM   #151
Splendour
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Re: 101 Scientific Facts the Bible foretold

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Does god tell you to preach to us?
You can't preach in a forum. There's no sound.

All you can do is point out errors and insights that might make people think from new angles.

God's message has always been delivered by people though and the bible specifically states "faith is by hearing". That's what Billy Graham was all about.

Its possible that someone could get a divine revelation some other way though. Like Brother Lawrence he had an epiphany. Francis Collins had one too. There could be a collusion of different kinds of experience or a crisis or a vision/dream or many other ways you could have a faith revelation and you might have to be very aware to pick up on it. The Spirit at times is subtle. I think some people get prompted multiple times before they respond.
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Old 02-02-2009, 05:18 PM   #152
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Re: 101 Scientific Facts the Bible foretold

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You can't preach in a forum. There's no sound.

All you can do is point out errors and insights that might make people think from new angles.

God's message has always been delivered by people though and the bible specifically states "faith is by hearing". That's what Billy Graham was all about.

Its possible that someone could get a divine revelation some other way though. Like Brother Lawrence he had an epiphany. Francis Collins had one too. There could be a collusion of different kinds of experience or a crisis or a vision/dream or many other ways you could have a faith revelation and you might have to be very aware to pick up on it. The Spirit at times is subtle. I think some people get prompted multiple times before they respond.
Does the fact that you may be causing fence-sitters to lean toward atheism or away from Christianity ever make you consider no longer posting here?
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Old 02-02-2009, 05:29 PM   #153
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Re: 101 Scientific Facts the Bible foretold

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Does the fact that you may be causing fence-sitters to lean toward atheism or away from Christianity ever make you consider no longer posting here?
People control their own fate. God gives them the choice.

I provide information. I don't believe in pressure.

But I don't knuckle under to group pressure. I'm not supposed to. Every individual is precious in God's sight.

I'll go when and where the Spirit moves me.
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Old 02-02-2009, 05:32 PM   #154
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Re: 101 Scientific Facts the Bible foretold

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I think some people get prompted multiple times before they respond.
There is a near zero chance that any non-believers will respond positively to your posts. It's much more likely that your continued rantings about satan and the atheism have managed to push atheists even farther away from religion.

You're not doing god's work on here. If anything, you're helping out satan.
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Old 02-02-2009, 05:36 PM   #155
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Re: 101 Scientific Facts the Bible foretold

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People control their own fate. God gives them the choice.

I provide information. I don't believe in pressure.
Except that the information you give is absolutely terrible. Do you think that anyone follows your links anymore? You developed a reputation for providing links that had nothing to do with what was being discussed in the thread and then claiming afterwards that you hadn't actually read the page that you had linked to.

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But I don't knuckle under to group pressure.
Except for all of the times that you've left the forum due to people being mean to you.
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Old 02-02-2009, 05:38 PM   #156
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Re: 101 Scientific Facts the Bible foretold

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There is a near zero chance that any non-believers will respond positively to your posts. It's much more likely that your continued rantings about satan and the atheism have managed to push atheists even farther away from religion.

You're not doing god's work on here. If anything, you're helping out satan.
I wanted a split forum and this started as a theist thread.

Why don't you go back to SMP if you dislike real theists so much.

This is a RELIGION forum.
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Old 02-02-2009, 05:44 PM   #157
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Re: 101 Scientific Facts the Bible foretold

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I wanted a split forum and this started as a theist thread.

Why don't you go back to SMP if you dislike real theists so much.

This is a RELIGION forum.
Yes, and I would like to discuss how much I dislike your RELIGION, so it all works out.
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Old 02-02-2009, 05:44 PM   #158
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Re: 101 Scientific Facts the Bible foretold

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Again, this is just wrong. You are altering the analogy so that you look right. Your analogy is totally fallacious. My analogy of someone that does not believe in dieting giving dieting advice is most accurate.

In order for your analogy to even be considered valid you would first have to show that there is 0 correlation between christian spirituality and a positive effect on their lives. Then you would have to show that there is 0 correlation between christian spirituality and splendours life. Then maybe I could take you seriously.
No. You are suggesting as your premise that in order to have valid spiritual advice, a person must be Christian. That is akin to suggesting that in order to have valid nutritional advice, one must follow a no-carb diet.

There is no "Christian spirituality," spirituality is spirituality. And there's no such thing as "no-carb nutrition," nutrition is nutrition. Some nutritionists advocate low carb diets, just as some spiritualists advocate the tenets of Christianity, but you can't take the recommendation of an expert as the criterion for expertise.

You can't argue that Christianity enhances spirituality because spiritual experts say it does, and then define a spiritual expert as someone who believes that Christianity enhances spirituality. It's circular and fallacious.
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Old 02-02-2009, 05:46 PM   #159
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Re: 101 Scientific Facts the Bible foretold

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Yes, and I would like to discuss how much I dislike your RELIGION, so it all works out.
Then we're done. Unload your dislike on someone else.
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Old 02-02-2009, 05:49 PM   #160
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Re: 101 Scientific Facts the Bible foretold

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I see a non-Christian spiritualists as one that obviously does not care or put any validity behind Christian spirituality. Just like I see a fat person does not put much validity behind actually dieting, or that the fat person and I see dieting very differently. It was a broad generalization. Which is why I offered numerous other analogies.
Non-Christian spiritualists put plenty of value behind "Christian spirituality," they simply don't describe it as "Christian" spirituality. The two are completely unrelated.

The fact that I do "non-Christian pushups" doesn't mean that I put no validity behind "Christian pushups." People who do lots of pushups will get better at doing pushups, it doesn't matter whether they are Christians, Buddhists, or atheists.

Same goes for meditation, development of loving-kindness, and connection with the source. The question of what that source is doesn't factor into it.
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Old 02-02-2009, 05:54 PM   #161
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Re: 101 Scientific Facts the Bible foretold

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Then we're done. Unload your dislike on someone else.
But that's not fair, I let you unload your dislike for atheism all over me.
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Old 02-02-2009, 06:07 PM   #162
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Re: 101 Scientific Facts the Bible foretold

Wow this is such bullcrap. I am still amazed by amount of people believing in such things... When you read 11-13 you have little choice but thinking the list is created by big time morons.
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Old 02-02-2009, 06:08 PM   #163
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Re: 101 Scientific Facts the Bible foretold

Wow I wish I had opened this thread as a Christian because by now I would certainly have converted to something else, probably Atheism.
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Old 02-02-2009, 06:15 PM   #164
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Re: 101 Scientific Facts the Bible foretold

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Wow I wish I had opened this thread as a Christian
yeah one of those experiences which is difficult to imagine. Just think that you are reading this list and nodding in agreement on all those arguments strengthening your faith... :-)
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Old 02-02-2009, 06:30 PM   #165
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Re: 101 Scientific Facts the Bible foretold

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No. You are suggesting as your premise that in order to have valid spiritual advice, a person must be Christian. That is akin to suggesting that in order to have valid nutritional advice, one must follow a no-carb diet.
No. I am suggesting that in order for spiritual advice to a christian to be taken seriously, it must come from a Christian. And I do not mean that to be a hard and fast rule, but that I am less likely, and should be, to listen to much of what a non-christian says on matters of christianity then what a christian says.

Quote:
There is no "Christian spirituality," spirituality is spirituality. And there's no such thing as "no-carb nutrition," nutrition is nutrition. Some nutritionists advocate low carb diets, just as some spiritualists advocate the tenets of Christianity, but you can't take the recommendation of an expert as the criterion for expertise.
I would say that your first line is, to a christian at least, obviously false. Which is exactly why I would not lend much validity to what a non-Christian has to say about matters of Christianity.

If you and I disagreed on every aspect of morality, would you still take advise about morality from me?

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You can't argue that Christianity enhances spirituality because spiritual experts say it does, and then define a spiritual expert as someone who believes that Christianity enhances spirituality. It's circular and fallacious.
That is only if I believe that christian spirituality was exactly the same as other forms of spirituality. Which is a statement that I never said. Hence none of your analogies thus far have been accurate.

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Non-Christian spiritualists put plenty of value behind "Christian spirituality," they simply don't describe it as "Christian" spirituality. The two are completely unrelated.
Again, from a Christian perspective this is just a false statement.

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The fact that I do "non-Christian pushups" doesn't mean that I put no validity behind "Christian pushups." People who do lots of pushups will get better at doing pushups, it doesn't matter whether they are Christians, Buddhists, or atheists.
Now you are just attacking strawmen. The ideal of spirituality is absolutely nothing like pushups. If you want to analogies lets look at something that makes sense like my morals analogy.

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Same goes for meditation, development of loving-kindness, and connection with the source. The question of what that source is doesn't factor into it.
And yet again, as a Christian this statement could not be more false. Which is once again why I would not put much steak in the advice of a non-Christian on the matters of spirituality.
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Old 02-02-2009, 06:42 PM   #166
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Re: 101 Scientific Facts the Bible foretold

someone needs to define spirituality imo
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Old 02-02-2009, 07:24 PM   #167
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Re: 101 Scientific Facts the Bible foretold

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I wanted a split forum and this started as a theist thread.

Why don't you go back to SMP if you dislike real theists so much.

This is a RELIGION forum.
And we're discussing religion. So what's the problem?

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- this isn't your blog. If you post things on here that people disagree with, you can expect to receive negative responses.
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Old 02-02-2009, 07:31 PM   #168
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Re: 101 Scientific Facts the Bible foretold

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No. I am suggesting that in order for spiritual advice to a christian to be taken seriously, it must come from a Christian. And I do not mean that to be a hard and fast rule, but that I am less likely, and should be, to listen to much of what a non-christian says on matters of christianity then what a christian says.
Then ignore the "advice" given to you from non-Christians. You're free to do so. Just don't whine about the fact that atheists are trying to debate with you in an internet Religion forum.

And you're confusing "spirituality" with "beliefs". Madnak is right and you are wrong.
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Old 02-02-2009, 07:40 PM   #169
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Re: 101 Scientific Facts the Bible foretold

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But that's not fair, I let you unload your dislike for atheism all over me.
That sounds hot.
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Old 02-02-2009, 07:44 PM   #170
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Re: 101 Scientific Facts the Bible foretold

jib,

You do realize that Tiger Woods takes swing advice from Hank Haney?
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Old 02-02-2009, 08:05 PM   #171
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Re: 101 Scientific Facts the Bible foretold

I think that the chili that I ate last night has given me atheist indigestion. Can any of the atheists on this board give me advice on how to deal with this?
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Old 02-02-2009, 08:05 PM   #172
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Re: 101 Scientific Facts the Bible foretold

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Wow this is such bullcrap. I am still amazed by amount of people believing in such things... When you read 1-101 you have little choice but thinking the list is created by big time morons.
Not the most elegant post I've read but I fixed it for ya anyway.
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Old 02-02-2009, 08:09 PM   #173
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Re: 101 Scientific Facts the Bible foretold

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No. You are suggesting as your premise that in order to have valid spiritual advice, a person must be Christian. That is akin to suggesting that in order to have valid nutritional advice, one must follow a no-carb diet.

There is no "Christian spirituality," spirituality is spirituality. And there's no such thing as "no-carb nutrition," nutrition is nutrition. Some nutritionists advocate low carb diets, just as some spiritualists advocate the tenets of Christianity, but you can't take the recommendation of an expert as the criterion for expertise.

You can't argue that Christianity enhances spirituality because spiritual experts say it does, and then define a spiritual expert as someone who believes that Christianity enhances spirituality. It's circular and fallacious.
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Originally Posted by madnak View Post
Non-Christian spiritualists put plenty of value behind "Christian spirituality," they simply don't describe it as "Christian" spirituality. The two are completely unrelated.

The fact that I do "non-Christian pushups" doesn't mean that I put no validity behind "Christian pushups." People who do lots of pushups will get better at doing pushups, it doesn't matter whether they are Christians, Buddhists, or atheists.

Same goes for meditation, development of loving-kindness, and connection with the source. The question of what that source is doesn't factor into it.
This is very well put. Jib's extremely weak and straw clutching attempt to refute your posts serve only to underline and reinforce them.
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Old 02-02-2009, 08:17 PM   #174
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Re: 101 Scientific Facts the Bible foretold

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Then ignore the "advice" given to you from non-Christians. You're free to do so. Just don't whine about the fact that atheists are trying to debate with you in an internet Religion forum.
Whoa there. I never whined about anything, if I did not want atheists to state their side, I would not be in this forum. And I would just ignore the advise. That was never my point. I was commenting on the fact that you were saying it was absurd that splendour would not take spiritual advise from an atheist.

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And you're confusing "spirituality" with "beliefs". Madnak is right and you are wrong.
No, this is just a false statement. Again why I would not take advise from you when it come to spirituality. Fundamentally we see it as very different things.
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Old 02-02-2009, 08:18 PM   #175
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Re: 101 Scientific Facts the Bible foretold

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This is very well put. Jib's extremely weak and straw clutching attempt to refute your posts serve only to underline and reinforce them.
I am sure you believe that. But you would just be wrong. You are just hearing what you want to hear.
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