So you only listen to people who already agree with you. That's pathetic.

Would you take sex advice from a virgin?

Would you take diet advice from a fat person?

Would you take fashion advice from a blind person?

I am not saying that we should not take advice from people that disagree with us, but there is some truth to what she is saying. You gotta admit that much.

Did you even read his post? He said you don't understand basic logic, and you demonstrate as such with your reply.

If he came back and said "hey wait, I'm not an atheist, I'm a Christian" would you suddenly reconsider what he said? If you would, then you are being irrational. That's basically equivalent to saying "if you wear a yellow hat, then you are right. Otherwise you are wrong and I'm not going to listen to you".

What I mean is that his personal characteristics do not change the nature of his message. It's magical thinking to posit that he could say the exact same thing and be right if he's a Christian ("wearing a yellow hat") but wrong if he's an atheist.

I've mentioned something like this before and your response was along the lines of "I'm talking about the spiritual world, the rules of logic don't apply there". But can't you see that by your definition of "the spiritual world", you could feasibly make absolutely anything up and hold that it is true merely by declaring it so? Can you see any problems with having such a perspective?

Would you take medical advice from a doctor who has never had your disease? The validity of advice depends on itself alone, it doesn't matter where it's come from.

Yes, I would take medical advice from a doctor. But I would not take medical advice from someone that played a doctor on tv.

Your statement is just false. Not all advice is independent from the person giving it. Some, yes, but not all advice.

Certain things require a level of knowledge to take seriously. Spirituality is one of those things.

Almost always I'm going to line up on the bible. This is why arguing religion doesn't make sense. You have to know the bible and respect it.

The Christian worldview requires that what we are saying is in accordance with its teachings.

If I say anything out of line with the bible you can reject it if you have a good grasp of the context though sometimes heresies are insidious and you need to consult a doctrinal expert.

lol fantastic

These are all objective criteria. This is a completely different matter. You may believe that spirituality is based on the Bible, but I believe that spirituality is based on the brain.

And incidentally, spiritual experiences are reported by people from virtually all religions (and among the nonreligious), while many Christians and even Bible scholars don't report any significant spiritual component to their lives.

Answer: irrelevant.


It shouldn't matter one bit, as if I was a Christian I'd say the same thing for your departure from logic and common sense. Also, as previously mentioned, there are bible scholars that could recite verse on the spot who are non believers, and many of Christians that couldn't name me a single line from it. I don't want to insult you any more, but I guess an irrational person can't objectively examine their irrationality. I feel sorry for you, but at least your convictions are strong enough that you might have a fulfilling life. Best of luck.

The bible has not foretold any more scientific facts than the Quran or the tales of king Arthur.

Why this thread is even going on is mindboggling. Anyone with the relevant highscool subjects to look at the link presented in the OP would know it is complete bollocks.

It has nothing to do with "atheism" or "theism", the namecalling in this thread has reached disgraceful levels. This is what this debate is now:

A. "That car is green"
B. "That is not a car."
A. "You bloody atheist."

[ ] Christianity has a monopoly on all things spiritual.

Seriously stop pretending like you do.

Spirituality =/= Christianity

This is not a completely different matter. And your beliefs would rightly lead a Christian not to take spiritual advice from you.

This is irrelevant. I never said that other people could not have spirituality. Just that it is understandable that a Christian would not want to take spiritual advice from an atheist. Just like my other examples.

A fat person might have a great diet idea. But I am not really going to listen because of who it is coming from.

Good post.

m is partial to buddhism probably because he likes meditation and mindfulness ideas. The truth is a Christian can meditate. Brother Lawrence shows that. Its just that Christians don't cut off the head and the tail (God and Christ).

Most Christians are so busy trying to obtain grace and trying to figure out how to put on the New Man they never go the meditative route.

The shortcut for a Christian is pretty simple: its obedience. Christians always get in trouble when they tussle between the natural and the spiritual. I think its Chambers that says just obey. Its the desire, the temptation that puts Christians thru suffering and the crucible. The Buddhists know this thats why they remove themselves from desire. They've identified the cause but their solution is different. No Christian is ever putting his eternal life on the line cutting off Jesus and God because Christ overcame the world and they want the promises of God. We can have the peace just like the Buddhists but we have to live a life affirming the will of God. Getting in sync with God's will is what limits human suffering but people are too caught up in temptations to know that. In a struggle between light and dark. Don't stay in the gray area. Step into the light and obey God.

Again, weight can be objectively measured. Spirituality can't.

This is more like you refusing to take dietary advice from anyone who eats carbs (regardless of their physical condition), because you already have a personal bias that no-carb diets are best and you are unwilling to hear differently.

No, it is more like taking diet advice from someone who believes that dieting does not do anything.

In the case that we are referring to, Hopey is a person that does not believe in Christian spirituality, so why would Splendour listen to advice about christian spirituality when Hopey believes it is nothing more that tooth fairy spirituality?

That's like saying "you don't believe in no-carb dieting, so why would I listen to your advice about dieting?"

Just because you think "dieting" and "no-carb" are synonymous, doesn't make it so. There's plenty of evidence that carb-focused diets can be highly effective, and even more evidence that spirituality has nothing to do with your dogma of choice.

Hopey isn't suggesting there's anything wrong with "Christian spirituality," he's only suggesting that "Christian spirituality" as a term is roughly as meaningful as "no-carb dieting." And even that may be giving too much credit - it's more like "black shirt dieting," as if you must wear black in order to lose weight.

Yes, if your religion tells you that only those who wear black are capable of losing weight, and you believe your religion uncritically, then you probably wouldn't take advice from anyone who doesn't wear black. But comparing that to objective qualifications is absurd.

A fat person failed at dieting...so you shouldn't take his diet advice. Is that how you view non-Christian spiritualists; as failures? If not, your analogy is wrong. If yes, your open-mindedness is closed.

This.

Why is it atheists have trouble with the concept that God is Love and in him there is no darkness.

God's love is not human love its infinitely richer and deeper like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY_FpV05n-c

Must be all those darts of doubt, guilt and self-condemnation the devil sends.
Because extreme doubt, guilt and self-condemnation are never from God.

Jesus said he came to save the world not condemn it.

atheists have a problem with it because they do not believe in him. why do you have a problem with obedience to allah?

OH YEAH, because when I think of love, I think of THIS guy!

Did not read list but I'm sure it's ******ed.

Go ahead and judge God just remember if you're wrong you don't have any power over him.

Theists are quite rational in their beliefs. They believe the witnesses in the NT and the witness of God. People who witnessed God's power.

Jesus saw straight thru people on a daily basis.

You don't think God could see straight thru a people's flesh to their purity or impurity?

"O ye of little faith".

If God can create man then God can certainly see thru them to the state of their hearts and his judgment is irrevocable.

So did Phil Hellmuth. And personally, I'd rather hear that Hellmuth was the one nailed to a cross.

"Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap." Galatians 6:7