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Old 12-26-2008, 08:25 PM   #176
HipsterDufes
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

.

Last edited by HipsterDufes; 12-26-2008 at 08:44 PM. Reason: oops wrong thread
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Old 01-03-2009, 09:08 PM   #177
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

Bump for good info, as well as me needing thread currently.

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Old 01-03-2009, 10:03 PM   #178
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

Yeah anyone thinking about getting into stacking, particularly backing, would be dumb not to read most of this thread.
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Old 01-17-2009, 01:06 PM   #179
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Poker Staking; what is your criteria to stake an unknown player?

Since I generally suck at tournamnet poker I have found that picking a good horse is almost as fun. I started with fantasy leagues and have a few friends that I will take a percentage on every once in a great while. Since I know these folks I never have a problem getting paid. They are mostly solid ABC players that have the ability to turn it up a notch once the bubble breaks.

My question is how would you go around evaluating an online player's stats and previous performance at the lower levels before offering to take a percentage?

PS, I know trust is a big factor and the likelihood of getting burned is significant so lets toss out that criteria for the time being.
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Old 01-20-2009, 10:35 AM   #180
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Re: Poker Staking; what is your criteria to stake an unknown player?

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Originally Posted by RGC2005 View Post
My question is how would you go around evaluating an online player's stats and previous performance at the lower levels before offering to take a percentage?
OPR, Sharkscope, Pokertracker graphs, References, watch them play, HHs/PxF replays.

Beyond that talk to them. Make sure you get a good vibe. Make sure you are confident that they will play within the agreement. If you are not 100% confident, my recommendation is not to stake them. If you'd like to anyway, have them sign something (typically I offer to sign an agreement saying any losses incurred outside of the staking agreement as verified by sharkscope or OPR I will refund in full and backer has the option to terminate the agreement immediately).

Once you have taken the horse on make sure you get updates -- verbal, tracking sites, or spreadsheets from the horse. And make sure you READ AND/OR FOLLOW UP ON THOSE UPDATES. Let the horse know you are a)interested, b)involved, c)watching them.

GL
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Old 01-21-2009, 04:39 AM   #181
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Tournament Sponsorship

Have heard a number of people in here talking about being sponsored to enter large tournaments. What channels do you go through to make this happen? What are the requirements for this? Or I guess more simply, how good do you have to be?

I play almost entirely sit and gos, and have the following record:

Games: 852
Average Profit: $27
Average Stake: $117
ROI: 14%
Profit: $22,971

My results for the last 4 months puts me at 11th on officialpokerrankings.com for STTs

I realize the sample is pretty small, but is it good enough to attract any kind of backing? Is it a problem I usually play STTs rather than MTTs?

I have seen a few sites offering sponsorship but to be honest they have seemed simply like a marketing tool to get people to play at a certain site - allowing anyone to sign up.

Any help/guidance here would be really appreciated guys

cheers

king kiwi
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Old 01-21-2009, 04:45 AM   #182
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Re: Tournament Sponsorship

It varies, but generally putting in decent results at mtts is the best way to go about getting staked. You have to remember being able to pushbot/ICM through a turbo sng =/= a live deepstacked 10k event.

Its pretty likely you'd be +ev in one, but thats not a given. Also trust factor, not playing MTTs, no live experience and you'll probably struggle to find a backer - i'd imagine there are better qualified people for live 10ks that want backers before you.

So i'd suggest either luckboxing it and finding some rich person who wants to gamboool and back you - or just get some MTT results.

Alternatively you could try satting in and playing them cheaper and/or selling pieces of yourself rather than getting a longterm staking deal.
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Old 01-21-2009, 04:51 AM   #183
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Re: Tournament Sponsorship

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Originally Posted by martinliam View Post
Have heard a number of people in here talking about being sponsored to enter large tournaments. What channels do you go through to make this happen? What are the requirements for this? Or I guess more simply, how good do you have to be
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/135/staking/

here for staking.

read some prev post about being staked for tornaments, read the F.A.Q. before posting, (since you need to be first aproved into the market place first and read there T&C, before you start a threat there.)
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Old 01-22-2009, 12:10 PM   #184
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

Hmm some of these stories about stakees not paying back money are worrying. Perhaps we should have an official list somewhere of scammers like they have in the p2p trading thread. If this already exists then nvm.
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Old 01-23-2009, 02:04 AM   #185
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

What would your advice be on how to work this out?

Situation:
I have $325. I want to move up to 25NL from 10NL. Lets say I want to use the 25BI rule so person X would have to give me $300 for me to comfortably play 25NL.

Now how does this work?

If I lose the $300, would I pay him back at all? Pay him back a percentage of the lost money? Lets say I'd pay him back half, then what % of profits should i share with him? Is it also half? Or less or more? At the end of my agreement (after x hands), would I pay him back the initial $300?

Or generally, if i botched things up with the explanations above, how would one approach the situation above?
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Old 01-23-2009, 02:35 AM   #186
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

Sorry for the above post. I tried to edit but I couldn't. The revised situation is this:

What would your advice be on how to work this out?

Situation:
I have $325. I want to move up to 25NL from 10NL. Lets say I want to use the 25BI rule so person X would have to give me $300 for me to comfortably play 25NL. It's currently set up like this:

He stakes me $300.
He gets 25% of my profits for X hands
If I lose $300 I will owe him $225 (75% of $300)


Is this a fair deal? How long do staking deals usually last? (In terms of X number of hands. We do not want to do X amount of time)
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Old 01-23-2009, 12:48 PM   #187
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

25 BI rule is kind of silly when you have no risk of ruin because of the backer.

getting 75%of your profits while backed is nuts but it may be outweighed by having to just pay back most of the losses. It would be better if it went into makeup until you get back to even or the backer felt like ending the stake

X is usually 30-50K hands afaik
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Old 01-23-2009, 01:49 PM   #188
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

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Originally Posted by bobboufl11 View Post
25 BI rule is kind of silly when you have no risk of ruin because of the backer.
What do you mean? Should you not have a BI rule?

Quote:
getting 75%of your profits while backed is nuts but it may be outweighed by having to just pay back most of the losses. It would be better if it went into makeup until you get back to even or the backer felt like ending the stake
So are you saying I should get less of my profits? Or more? Also, can you please elaborate on makeup?


edit: Also, does not staking 100% of the roll play any part of how profit/losses are shared?
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Old 01-23-2009, 02:16 PM   #189
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

Quote:
Originally Posted by asg View Post
What do you mean? Should you not have a BI rule?


So are you saying I should get less of my profits? Or more? Also, can you please elaborate on makeup?


edit: Also, does not staking 100% of the roll play any part of how profit/losses are shared?
FYI, a "normal" staking deal is say 50-100k hands, 50/50 profit split, backer provides 100% of the bankroll, Stakee uses bankroll management (eg. 25buyin rule) which is dictated by the backer, 100% make-up.

Make-up is in case you lose the initial stake then the backer can provide you with a new bankroll at the stakes he wishes you to play and you must play your way out of the debt that you acquired during the last stake.
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Old 01-23-2009, 02:20 PM   #190
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

Quote:
Originally Posted by hennnerz View Post
FYI, a "normal" staking deal is say 50-100k hands, 50/50 profit split, backer provides 100% of the bankroll, Stakee uses bankroll management (eg. 25buyin rule) which is dictated by the backer, 100% make-up.

Make-up is in case you lose the initial stake then the backer can provide you with a new bankroll at the stakes he wishes you to play and you must play your way out of the debt that you acquired during the last stake.
Ahh, I see. So is it very uncommon for the stakee to have to payback a percentage of the losses so that he shares less of the profits with the staker? How would you arrange the deal if you entered into the situation described above?
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Old 01-23-2009, 02:33 PM   #191
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

I had a long response but I decided against it. IMO you would be better off asking this person for a $300 loan and paying them back + juice on a fixed date. From the numbers it seems like they are concerned about their money.

What separates a stake from a loan (usually) is that a stake you are risking your own money because you expect the horse to turn you a profit. Rare to find staking deals that expect the horse to pay back 75% of the stake if you lose.

Just fyi, 10NL is harder than 25NL :P I'm sure you'll crush
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Old 01-23-2009, 02:49 PM   #192
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

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Originally Posted by JL514 View Post
I had a long response but I decided against it. IMO you would be better off asking this person for a $300 loan and paying them back + juice on a fixed date. From the numbers it seems like they are concerned about their money.

What separates a stake from a loan (usually) is that a stake you are risking your own money because you expect the horse to turn you a profit. Rare to find staking deals that expect the horse to pay back 75% of the stake if you lose.

Just fyi, 10NL is harder than 25NL :P I'm sure you'll crush
Haha, thanks.

What is the rate usually on a loan? Govt interest rates for short term loans (1 month or less) is less than 1%!
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Old 01-23-2009, 03:02 PM   #193
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

Govt doesn't loan to gamblers, and loans much larger amounts than $300.
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Old 01-27-2009, 01:06 PM   #194
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

Guys I'm interested in staking someone for HUSNG's, how many buy-ins would you suggest the stake be for? How many SNG's should it be for? I usually stake cash games and provide 10 to 20 buy-ins over 100k hands. Thanks in advance.
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Old 01-27-2009, 01:14 PM   #195
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

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Originally Posted by craiggerz View Post
Guys I'm interested in staking someone for HUSNG's, how many buy-ins would you suggest the stake be for? How many SNG's should it be for? I usually stake cash games and provide 10 to 20 buy-ins over 100k hands. Thanks in advance.
Depends on the level and the # of sngs they are going to be playing at once.

As you get to the 50s and 100s or higher winrates generally don't exceed 6%, so prolly would need more BIs. Same goes for a high # of tables played.

Prolly 500-1k sngs in 1 month is doable
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Old 01-27-2009, 04:46 PM   #196
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

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Originally Posted by Jennifer Garner View Post
Depends on the level and the # of sngs they are going to be playing at once.

As you get to the 50s and 100s or higher winrates generally don't exceed 6%, so prolly would need more BIs. Same goes for a high # of tables played.

Prolly 500-1k sngs in 1 month is doable
Thanks for the information Jennifer, decided to go in a different direction anyways.
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Old 01-28-2009, 06:02 AM   #197
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

What happens when a player is in make-up but the staker can't afford the new roll? And the player is now playing on his own money?
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Old 01-29-2009, 09:33 AM   #198
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

Hey wobuffet, did you ever get your $$$ back from delaney_kid?
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Old 01-29-2009, 10:59 AM   #199
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

Quote:
Originally Posted by hennnerz View Post
What happens when a player is in make-up but the staker can't afford the new roll? And the player is now playing on his own money?
Makeup is for protection of the staker to know that if you get hit by the bad side of variance and busto, you will be required to play for him again on a new roll until you are out of makeup (and presumably are robusto).

Not every staking deal has to have makeup. You have to be confident that your stake is a winning player -- this is where a stake is an investment.

Sometimes you stake someone who *might* turn a profit, or isn't a proven winner, or you're hoping they'll get lucky or get better to make you money. Here the stake is still an investment with a greater amount of risk. In this type of stake makeup is kinda pointless imo.

Anyway, makeup is only binding if you are still on a stake. Unless spelled out ahead of time -- playing on your own money is not being on a stake. IMO Makeup doesn't apply.
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Old 01-29-2009, 12:32 PM   #200
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

Quote:
Originally Posted by JL514 View Post
Makeup is for protection of the staker to know that if you get hit by the bad side of variance and busto, you will be required to play for him again on a new roll until you are out of makeup (and presumably are robusto).

Not every staking deal has to have makeup. You have to be confident that your stake is a winning player -- this is where a stake is an investment.

Sometimes you stake someone who *might* turn a profit, or isn't a proven winner, or you're hoping they'll get lucky or get better to make you money. Here the stake is still an investment with a greater amount of risk. In this type of stake makeup is kinda pointless imo.

Anyway, makeup is only binding if you are still on a stake. Unless spelled out ahead of time -- playing on your own money is not being on a stake. IMO Makeup doesn't apply.
Thanks that's all fair. What happens when a player is in make-up but the staker can't afford the new roll?
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