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Old 11-21-2008, 06:24 PM   #151
kidpoker406
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Re: ***Official Staking Thread: Ask for/Offer stakes (100 STRAT post minimum to post)

i was recently approached on MSN with proposal for being staked. the stakee mentioned that i would have to send him $50 on stars to "verify" me or some such thing, and it would be sent back w/the stake. ive never been staked, nor staked someone, so i am unfamiliar with normal procedure. is this standard?
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Old 11-21-2008, 06:35 PM   #152
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Re: ***Official Staking Thread: Ask for/Offer stakes (100 STRAT post minimum to post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidpoker406 View Post
i was recently approached on MSN with proposal for being staked. the stakee mentioned that i would have to send him $50 on stars to "verify" me or some such thing, and it would be sent back w/the stake. ive never been staked, nor staked someone, so i am unfamiliar with normal procedure. is this standard?
nope never heard this one before if he is worried about it not being you,

you should ask him to send like $5 or something and let him pick a tournament out for you to play to verify who you are,

if he says no, obvious a scammer in my eyes.
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Old 11-21-2008, 07:27 PM   #153
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Re: ***Official Staking Thread: Ask for/Offer stakes (100 STRAT post minimum to post)

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obvious scammer in my eyes.
This.

Isn't this one of the oldest tricks in the book even outside of staking? You send me x$, I'll send you back 10x$. Guess what happens...
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Old 11-22-2008, 12:33 PM   #154
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

Hi, I have a question regarding a staking deal I'm in.

Since november 11th I'm staking a friend of mine for $30k. 50/50 with make-up. We are reevaluating the staking deal after 1 month on december 11th.

Now he lost some money at site #1 and won money at site #2. Since he was short on site #1 now, he asked me if I could spot him $10k on there.
He then asked me if he should transfer me back $10k from site #2.
Because he told me he feels more comfortable playing with a larger br on a site I told him he could hold on to the $10k. I also wasn't really in need of the $10k.

A couple days later he loses $40k in 1 day, $19k of which he lost playing too big, outside our staking agreement. He is going to pay me back the $19k fully.

So he lost the $30k + the $10k that he hold on to for me.

Now the question is; was the $10k part of our stakingdeal? i.e. does he have to pay me back this $10k fully too? Or is this $10k part of the make-up now, for a total of $21k in make-up.

p.s. we don't have any logs of the "hold on to" conversation, but we both agree on what's been said in this post.

p.s.2 I'm aware everyone's gonna tell me to quit the deal and dump him. But he's a friend of mine and I'd like to give him another chance. Obviously I also don't really like it to end like this because there's still make-up and I know he's a winner in the game he plays.

Thanks
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Old 11-23-2008, 08:06 PM   #155
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

havent seen this covered..

a guy staked me in sngs and i made a good return for him.. i then played cash for a while on my own. we recently got back in touch and started another stake for sngs. only problem is now i cant seem to win a sng for my life. he sent 15bis which i lose, then he decided he wanted to keep going and sent 25 more. as of right now im like 22 bis in the makeup. i think for the interest of all involved i should stop the stake, but then again im in the makeup right now and hes dead set on making money with this.
what do i do here??
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Old 11-23-2008, 08:16 PM   #156
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

Quote:
Originally Posted by gemmer View Post
Hi, I have a question regarding a staking deal I'm in.

Since november 11th I'm staking a friend of mine for $30k. 50/50 with make-up. We are reevaluating the staking deal after 1 month on december 11th.

Now he lost some money at site #1 and won money at site #2. Since he was short on site #1 now, he asked me if I could spot him $10k on there.
He then asked me if he should transfer me back $10k from site #2.
Because he told me he feels more comfortable playing with a larger br on a site I told him he could hold on to the $10k. I also wasn't really in need of the $10k.

A couple days later he loses $40k in 1 day, $19k of which he lost playing too big, outside our staking agreement. He is going to pay me back the $19k fully.

So he lost the $30k + the $10k that he hold on to for me.

Now the question is; was the $10k part of our stakingdeal? i.e. does he have to pay me back this $10k fully too? Or is this $10k part of the make-up now, for a total of $21k in make-up.

p.s. we don't have any logs of the "hold on to" conversation, but we both agree on what's been said in this post.

p.s.2 I'm aware everyone's gonna tell me to quit the deal and dump him. But he's a friend of mine and I'd like to give him another chance. Obviously I also don't really like it to end like this because there's still make-up and I know he's a winner in the game he plays.

Thanks
I think you should have asked for the 10k back. the 19 you are getting back is good but I honestly think the money that you sent on the other site should be part of the makeup.
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Old 11-25-2008, 04:59 PM   #157
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

Hi guys, simple staking question for you....


I buy 10% of a friend in a 2500$ tournament for 500$, he cashes for 6k, (3500$ profit that is). How much does he owe me?
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Old 11-25-2008, 09:25 PM   #158
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

500 quid back plus 50% winnings, so 1750+500?
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Old 11-25-2008, 09:41 PM   #159
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

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Originally Posted by John123 View Post
500 quid back plus 50% winnings, so 1750+500?
What? Where did you get 50% winnings?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boquense View Post
Hi guys, simple staking question for you....


I buy 10% of a friend in a 2500$ tournament for 500$, he cashes for 6k, (3500$ profit that is). How much does he owe me?
It depends on what you agreed to. From what it sounds like you did not 'stake' your friend, you instead bought his action. When you buy action you are entitled to the agreed upon % of the full prize won (not only the profit) which is 10% * $6000 = $600 in this case.

Unless agreed upon earlier, action swaps are not entitled to 'stake back' which would be your $500 + a % of the winnings.

Because of the way swaps work, i'm wondering why you paid 200% of the share's value? You must have been pretty confident in your friends abilities.. 200% is astronomical. FWIW some of the best players on share selling sites charge ~150% share value.
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Old 11-26-2008, 03:06 AM   #160
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

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Originally Posted by JL514 View Post
What? Where did you get 50% winnings?



It depends on what you agreed to. From what it sounds like you did not 'stake' your friend, you instead bought his action. When you buy action you are entitled to the agreed upon % of the full prize won (not only the profit) which is 10% * $6000 = $600 in this case.

Unless agreed upon earlier, action swaps are not entitled to 'stake back' which would be your $500 + a % of the winnings.

Because of the way swaps work, i'm wondering why you paid 200% of the share's value? You must have been pretty confident in your friends abilities.. 200% is astronomical. FWIW some of the best players on share selling sites charge ~150% share value.
All buy-ins and entry fees should be distributed BEFORE % is divided. Easy example: Joe gives $10 to Jack for a $10 sng for 50% action. Payout of sng is 60/30/10. Jack gets 3rd, so he gets $10. If the buyin isnt given back first, Jack would win money while his backer, who paid for it, would lose $5. :<
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Old 11-26-2008, 10:11 AM   #161
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

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Originally Posted by stdrdm22 View Post
All buy-ins and entry fees should be distributed BEFORE % is divided. Easy example: Joe gives $10 to Jack for a $10 sng for 50% action. Payout of sng is 60/30/10. Jack gets 3rd, so he gets $10. If the buyin isnt given back first, Jack would win money while his backer, who paid for it, would lose $5. :<
In my opinion: In this case Joe is not really paying for a share, or action. Instead Joe is staking Jack for the tournament. As I said earlier, staking deals are typically 50/50 + Stakeback so in that case, Jack would pay the $10 back to Joe (or, more than likely, Joe would tell Jack to play another SnG and hope for better results. And definitely move away from 60/30/10 payouts :P)
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Old 12-03-2008, 11:13 AM   #162
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

i don't know who to write to but i have an issue with a stake that was set up last month. We agreed to 100K hands and some additional coaching. Now last 3 weeks i was ill and haven't been able to get the goal of 30ishK hands in. No worries said my staker, so i played when i could.

Thing is that he agreed on giving me lessons (6 to 8 a month) and i only had one the first day when he shipped me the 20bi needed. After that i always have had to contact him myself. I have written PMs that kept unreplied, asking for agreeing some dates on doing sesh. Wrote a mail to his personal email. Same, unreplied. I just kept contacting him and 2 days ago i even send monthly update and again i asked to fix some dates so the sesh are guaranteed instead of 'on the fly' asking for one when i have time. No response whatsoever


I feel like i'm being used and that the staker only wants the money i make for him and that everything else is my problem or so. I noticed he's been online daily, also on aim/skype but on msn which i use to contact him, he suddenly has been offline for the last days. Can you give me any advice? What/how much do i owe him if i blow the stake off for reasons of breaching the things we agreed and no interest whatsoever in the stake?


(posted this under friends acc)
thanks
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Old 12-03-2008, 01:27 PM   #163
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

Quote:
Originally Posted by estoysinblanca View Post
i don't know who to write to but i have an issue with a stake that was set up last month. We agreed to 100K hands and some additional coaching. Now last 3 weeks i was ill and haven't been able to get the goal of 30ishK hands in. No worries said my staker, so i played when i could.

Thing is that he agreed on giving me lessons (6 to 8 a month) and i only had one the first day when he shipped me the 20bi needed. After that i always have had to contact him myself. I have written PMs that kept unreplied, asking for agreeing some dates on doing sesh. Wrote a mail to his personal email. Same, unreplied. I just kept contacting him and 2 days ago i even send monthly update and again i asked to fix some dates so the sesh are guaranteed instead of 'on the fly' asking for one when i have time. No response whatsoever


I feel like i'm being used and that the staker only wants the money i make for him and that everything else is my problem or so. I noticed he's been online daily, also on aim/skype but on msn which i use to contact him, he suddenly has been offline for the last days. Can you give me any advice? What/how much do i owe him if i blow the stake off for reasons of breaching the things we agreed and no interest whatsoever in the stake?


(posted this under friends acc)
thanks
Contact him on aim/skype, if say in the next week or so he still dont reply to any e-mails/messages i suggest you say you will end the stake where it is at and not play another hand untill he hold up to his part of the deal. If he dont within another week, end it and ship him his winnings.
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Old 12-04-2008, 07:18 PM   #164
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

hey guys i wanna stake my friend for 10+1 sngs, as he's broke, and he pwns in them (26%roi omg over 1100 games) I was wondering if some1 could read this agreement before i ship it off. does it sound reasonable/fair to both parties?

Hey Kyle,



Here it is:





Staking proposal- $500 in net profits, or 500 games.



Duration

the stake will continue until a net profit has reached $500, or 500 games. The deal will end if you reach stop loss limit of $250, or i see you start tilting, sustained poor play etc. I will need the games to played in ~ 3months.



Stop-loss

The stop-loss will be $250. If you lose this then the stake will be over, and makeup will need to be paid



Stakes

The stakes you play will be $10+1 6 or 9 max single table tournaments on full tilt poker. you are welcome to play anything you like, but they will not count towards our agreement.



Profit split and bankroll

the cut will be 50:50 on any profit above the stake, and will be divided monthly. I will give you 10 bi's to start. My cut of the profits will be sent to my ftp account at the end of the month, you can do whatever you want with yours. If if you are at a loss i will give you your remaining 15 bis.



Makeup

if you lose the stop loss, 30% in makeup ($75) will need to be paid back to my full tilt account whenever you can afford it.



Termination

If I do want to terminate for any reason and you’re in profit we will split the profit 50:50. If i decide to terminate in when you are at a loss, you will not owe me makeup.

You may terminate every 100 games, and we will split profits 50/50 as well as 30% makeup should you be down.



Hand Histories

You will need to send all the hand histories to me on a daily basis. (just configure full tilt to have them saved to our msn sharing folder.)



Further oppertunities

If this deal goes well then we will decide whether or not to continue.
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Old 12-04-2008, 08:57 PM   #165
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

Looks like you have all your bases covered. GL
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Old 12-11-2008, 12:25 AM   #166
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Seeking info on standardish staking deal (cash)

Assume player A is staker and Player B is stakee.

B is well known in the 2p2/internet poker community with a solid reputation. A and B are friends and have had staking/coaching agreements in the past that have been smooth and there is minimal to zero chance that B flakes out or disappears with money.

What kind of deal would be fair/standard for a simple staking agreement over a few sites for 100nl and 200nl? Assume B to be a marginal to solid winner. Would rb/bonuses ever be included in earnings to be split?

Thanks
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Old 12-12-2008, 04:45 PM   #167
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

Bonuses that are deposited in increments into the account shouldn't be split. Too hard to determine or tease apart what was $5 bonus increments and what was profits. I suppose this can be negotiated but I wouldn't.

Rakeback is a different story. If you are trying to help player B grind a roll and this is your main objective, let him have the RB. If you are really having a staking deal, this should be part of the agreement. If player B is likely to play mostly break even poker this is even more important -- rakeback can be a large source of income.

In my previous deals as a stakee I have always pushed to have the RB be my money (moved to a different account or cashed out immediately after payment). I always offer to refund the stake if it is lost using money earned from rakeback though (100% of stake or 100% of acquired rakeback, whichever is less) as I think this is a happy medium -- Stakee gets a stronger way to build a roll, Staker gets some insurance.

In my previous deals as a staker I controlled the terms, even though the deal was with a friend. The rakeback was sent to me after each payment and was mine. However, I did offer incentives to the Stakee -- usually in the form of a % of the RB when it reached a certain threshold (this also protects your stake. Staking someone $400 for NL25? If their rakeback exceeds $200 in a month they get 25%. Also has the added bonus of motivating stakee to put in more volume.)

FPPs are a grey area. The only time I think these should work into a stake is if there are bonus payment issues such as Stars' milestone payments and APs old 'points for cash'. These aren't too common and I think FPPs belong to the owner of the account -- causes the fewest issues. I dealt with this on AP's old system and imo these bonus payments should always be heavily weighted toward the stakee. When my horse hit 50k ARPs and cashed then for $586, I gave my horse 75% -- Roughly $375.
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Old 12-15-2008, 04:08 PM   #168
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

hi,

i (stakee) have have an agreement with staker to settle profits on the 13th and 1st of every month. staker has not shown up on aim since, and i need money. i only have his aim. whats my play ?
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Old 12-15-2008, 06:00 PM   #169
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

all solved
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Old 12-15-2008, 11:58 PM   #170
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

A friend of mine just came up on a large sum of money and wants to invest $1k in me to play poker. I didn't ask for it, so I'm not sure how to handle it. Any advice?

I know most stakes involve making up the sum of the loan first and then taking profits. But since I didn't ask for it, I'm not sure if this should be worked differently.

I was thinking that I would most likely want to set up some sort of diminishing percentage for my friend who is making the investment. Where should I start? 50/50 from day one and have it end at something like 65/35? Make the deal only last a certain length of time? Put a cap on his profits?
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Old 12-16-2008, 02:06 AM   #171
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

doesn't matter if you asked for it or not. still a standard deal. if you don't need it, don't take it. if you'll use it to move up, etc. go for it.
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Old 12-16-2008, 02:20 AM   #172
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

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doesn't matter if you asked for it or not. still a standard deal. if you don't need it, don't take it. if you'll use it to move up, etc. go for it.
That's why you guys are the experts. I found this thread and will go from there I guess. Unless you guys have any other advice. Thanks.
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Old 12-16-2008, 06:43 AM   #173
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

I do already have a backer but he has never staked someone nor have I been staked.
I had the idea to open a thread and ask the more expierienced stakers/stakees what a fair deal would be.

is this the right forum for this or could you point me to it if there is a better one?
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Old 12-16-2008, 07:33 AM   #174
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

yeah I guess this thread is as good as it gets, as another posters thread with similar questions was moved into this..

what would be a fair deal for this?

I will be staked for NL200FR (playing NL100 for a living on my own the whole year)
I will get significant rakeback and I will participate (and hopefully finish high) in a rake race too
staking duration is for the race, so betweeen 20 and 30 days (havnt decided which race exactly yet)

as neither me nor my backer have ever done something like this we dont know any "standard" deals
but none of us want to take advantage of the other so I thought I asked you guys..

I had an offer from another backer before that was like this:
"I would say something like you can keep 75% table winnings, but i would want 25% of the rakeback and 40% race money."

is this standard/fair?
seemed a bit low on the backer's end tbh when I got the offer first,
compared to the STT/MTT deals I saw, but of course if its standard for CG I'd try to settle for something similar..

also we need some kind of a makeup deal, right?
there should be no way that one party makes money while the other one loses/breaks even..


we also had the idea of him giving me some $$ and I would also add some $$ out of my own BR,
selling him some % of my play instead getting staked 100%,
how should this change the figures.. if we go from 100% to say 50/50 ?

thank you in advance for any help, much appreciated
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Old 12-16-2008, 04:57 PM   #175
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

Quote:
"I would say something like you can keep 75% table winnings, but i would want 25% of the rakeback and 40% race money."
In my opinion, this seems far too difficult. Why not agree on a set % that encompasses all of your likely earnings? "we'll split my total take at the end of the month 50/50" or otherwise agreeable percentage?

Or bar off the rake race profits (you keep them all) and split profits and rakeback?

But other than that -- yes, if you want to make a deal like that, it's fine. Most of the time you don't need other people's help figuring out the percentages. They're primarily based on your playing ability, and the amount your being staked (notice that these are the two main risk factors the staker is taking).
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