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Old 08-20-2008, 03:23 AM   #101
WCGRider
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

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Originally Posted by mdm13 View Post
ok boys and girls,

first guy i staked in april for 100k hands at 100nl has apparently run off with my money (3k), doesnt respond to IM's hasnt been on 2+2 in a month (on his original SN at least), doesn't update me, doesn't respond to e-mails etc.

i did some googling and saw that he has been actively posting on a sportsbetting forum and been claiming on the forum to have been betting since I staked him

i know his real name, home town, myspace, the name address and phone number of his dads company where he works, email addy etc

whats my play?

another guy I staked has also gone awol (yeah i know i pick them well) but I have his blog and posted a comment on it telling him he has some explaining to do but I dont know the goldmine of info about him, not sure what do there other than to comment on his blog


and no need to tell me its risk of staking etc, protect yoruself better im aware and I think i factored all of this into the EV of staking as a whole but still would like to get a hold of my money
If you want i have a guy who can find out every single piece of information about both guys. Then you threaten them, then if they dont respond or they wont send you money back you decide whether you want to pursue them via legal action or through other methods. Regardless the best way to go here is to get their family involved because to their family this is very shady business and i dont think some random 18 year olds mom wants to hear her son has 3000 of yours that you are going to get back one way or another.
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Old 08-20-2008, 01:12 PM   #102
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

Let's say someone is staked at 60/40 when the backer puts up all the money. Under this circumstance what would the split be if the player put up 50% or 25% of the money?
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Old 08-20-2008, 02:16 PM   #103
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

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Let's say someone is staked at 60/40 when the backer puts up all the money. Under this circumstance what would the split be if the player put up 50% or 25% of the money?
imo the reason why backers give 60/40 is down to make up alot of the time. If i was going to be putting 50% of my own money in with the backers 50% then i would ask for 50/50 split with no make up.
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Old 08-20-2008, 03:12 PM   #104
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

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imo the reason why backers give 60/40 is down to make up alot of the time. If i was going to be putting 50% of my own money in with the backers 50% then i would ask for 50/50 split with no make up.
That's the one I've always preferred (from the backer side). 50/50 all the way around with no makeup. It eliminates the free roll of the player and some problems that often brings and of course then the horse doesn't owe your share of the loss.

Lately I'm leaning towards backer stakes 100% funds, player gets 75% of win, with 100% make-up/outright owed by player if stake lost. But that's a customized deal.
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Old 08-20-2008, 05:00 PM   #105
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

I also am a fan of 50% split in mtt buyins for 50% of profits. And no make-up.

However in cash games should it be 50-50 in terms of bankroll it then becomes player 75:25 backer with 100% makeup on the 50% of the bankroll.
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Old 08-21-2008, 01:12 AM   #106
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

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Originally Posted by Cinch View Post

Lately I'm leaning towards backer stakes 100% funds, player gets 75% of win, with 100% make-up/outright owed by player if stake lost. But that's a customized deal.
If a player would owe you the money you put in for him, why would he accept a stake in a first place? It's a no win scenario for him.
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Old 08-21-2008, 02:41 AM   #107
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

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Originally Posted by Black winter day View Post
If a player would owe you the money you put in for him, why would he accept a stake in a first place? It's a no win scenario for him.
That's easy. For 75% of the win in a game he can't touch otherwise. Instantly in action in a potential financial life changing game. For 75% of the win - when does the player ever get that? - he risks 100% of the loss (on credit).

How is that no-win scenario when if he beats the game, which he should be a good favorite to do, he gets much bigger % of profits? I don't follow you. The only thing the horse is losing is the free-roll factor, he's getting more of the win factor. It is a no loss situation for the backer.

That's not so bad, is it? LMK if you think so.

Last edited by Cinch; 08-21-2008 at 02:49 AM.
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Old 08-21-2008, 02:46 AM   #108
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

"That's easy. For 75% of the win in a game he can't touch otherwise."

Why can't he touch the game otherwise?
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Old 08-21-2008, 02:55 AM   #109
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

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Originally Posted by ThisTournamentUser View Post
"That's easy. For 75% of the win in a game he can't touch otherwise."

Why can't he touch the game otherwise?
Two reasons: private and lack of BR. This guy is dead on the Worm (except for cheating).

Last edited by Cinch; 08-21-2008 at 03:10 AM.
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Old 08-21-2008, 07:42 AM   #110
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

I have a stakee who finished a deal with me, however now will not send back the inital stake and profits from the stake.

I have certain information on him and have sent emails and PMs. Should I contact the site? I would like to ensure he doesn't lose the money between now and when I next speak to him. What's my play?
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Old 08-21-2008, 01:38 PM   #111
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

If it's from a lack of BR how is he going to pay back if he loses? What you are describing is a loan which a really high interest rate.
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Old 08-21-2008, 01:52 PM   #112
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

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If it's from a lack of BR how is he going to pay back if he loses? What you are describing is a loan which a really high interest rate.
He has good earning power but just is a terrible manager like worm. Wouldn't outright stiff me but could of course come up lame at times. That could happen to most anybody.

What I'm describing is not intended as a loan, but seems like a good plan to me to give him a shot. BTW, this is intended as one game shots, not longrunning contract. And I don't see what you mean by interest, he pays back only principal and nothing more. Whereas if you, just as an example, put sum on credit card to play with (and there are plenty who do that), and then make minimum payments, you pay ungodly interest triple or quadruple the principal maybe. Here he pays only amount lost and is given time.

It's intended as a generous deal. If it's not I'd reconsider. It's also intended to give me no loss and keep stake from evaporating. It can't. I got a feeling he'd leap at the offer.
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Old 08-24-2008, 12:47 PM   #113
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

Hi guys, quick question:

I'm going to play live in a foreign country, and I want my backer to pay 50% of the buy-in.
Should I give him 50% of my winnings? Is this okay?

Thanks.
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Old 08-27-2008, 10:37 AM   #114
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

Question:

Let's say I get into a long term staking contract for like $20k to play in $100 and $200 MTTs. 50-50 split with makeup.

Do you calculate the net makeup at the end of the contract and divvy profits at that time, or do it after each win?

Let's say I profitted $10k in my first tourney, with no makeup, I would get $5k, but then over the rest of the backing agreement, I am down $2k. Do I / should I owe that $2k to the backer? Obviously if done at the end, then net profit is $8k, and I would get $4k.

TIA

Fell
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Old 08-30-2008, 07:23 PM   #115
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

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Originally Posted by FellKnight View Post
Question:

Let's say I get into a long term staking contract for like $20k to play in $100 and $200 MTTs. 50-50 split with makeup.

Do you calculate the net makeup at the end of the contract and divvy profits at that time, or do it after each win?

Let's say I profitted $10k in my first tourney, with no makeup, I would get $5k, but then over the rest of the backing agreement, I am down $2k. Do I / should I owe that $2k to the backer? Obviously if done at the end, then net profit is $8k, and I would get $4k.

TIA

Fell
*bump* anyone?

Fell
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Old 08-30-2008, 11:11 PM   #116
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

Quote:
1) This Contract will be governed and executed under the internal laws of the State of [Nevada]. All of the terms listed and defined herein are assumed to mean exactly what is stated in the Contract.
If I live in NY should I change the [ ]'s to New York? What if online gaming isn't support in their state laws?
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Old 08-30-2008, 11:23 PM   #117
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

You could just do it by Nevada because I imagine the original contract maker would have ensured that everything was appropriate. However later down the line it could cause for some confusion, what with neither party living in Nevada. Although really this shouldn't hurt.
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Old 09-04-2008, 02:11 PM   #118
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

I have staked a couple 2+2 users, including delaney_kid (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/members/102036/ ), who has owed me about $4k on a stake for over a month now. (He has just stopped responding to emails/PMs.)

Should I post info/details a new topic on Marketplace, or in here? I'm not sure what proper procedure is here, so any help would be appreciated (PM if necessary).
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Old 09-04-2008, 07:57 PM   #119
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

Pretty sure he has been applying for new stakes of late, so best to get the word out somehow before another person falls into the same trap.
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Old 09-04-2008, 08:45 PM   #120
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

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Pretty sure he has been applying for new stakes of late, so best to get the word out somehow before another person falls into the same trap.
Did my guy help you?

What happened?
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Old 09-05-2008, 08:27 AM   #121
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

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Originally Posted by wobuffet View Post
I have staked a couple 2+2 users, including delaney_kid (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/members/102036/ ), who has owed me about $4k on a stake for over a month now. (He has just stopped responding to emails/PMs.)

Should I post info/details a new topic on Marketplace, or in here? I'm not sure what proper procedure is here, so any help would be appreciated (PM if necessary).
He finaltabled a liveevent not so long ago I think, he should def have the money (although he might have been staked for that too). Hope you get your money back
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Old 09-29-2008, 03:34 AM   #122
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Re: ***Official Staking Thread: Ask for/Offer stakes (100 STRAT post minimum to post)

Can someone give me what a ordinary stake deal looks like?
Lets say Im about to stake someone who is going to play nl100.
Lets say I stake him with 2k.

What does the deal looks like from here?
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Old 09-29-2008, 04:33 AM   #123
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Re: ***Official Staking Thread: Ask for/Offer stakes (100 STRAT post minimum to post)

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Originally Posted by MadManJ View Post
Can someone give me what a ordinary stake deal looks like?
Lets say Im about to stake someone who is going to play nl100.
Lets say I stake him with 2k.

What does the deal looks like from here?
you could let the stakee play for a month or a week or so but make sure you set a date or a profit target and then decide how you are going to split the profits, if you think the player is going crush the games should be like (50/50) if you think he is going to struggle a little or maybe he is taking a shot at a new level then you probably should take (60/40) (You/Stakee).

Once he has won X amount you can then decide to move him up stakes, keep him at the same stakes or end the staking deal. Whether you decide to have make up on the deal well that's for you to decide.

Im not a expert on staking just some research I've done but if you need anymore info you should probably go to the thread down below by WCGRider

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/10...-games-306028/
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Old 09-29-2008, 11:14 AM   #124
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

I've been thinking about staking some 25NL players (to start with), but there is alot of questions. Like how many buyins I should send them? I would say 20 is enough, but not sure. I have also been thinking in lines of maybe having a sliding scale. Like if they make up to $X profit we split 50/50, but anything over that we split 75/25 (players favour) or something like that, is this common? I think this would incurrage the stakee to play more and better, but maybe I am to generous.

I would really like to stake a couple of players, but the trust issue gets to me unfortunatly. I mean if they get my money and slowly bleed it of but play good, its ok, but not if they just take the money and I never hear from them again.
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Old 09-29-2008, 11:19 AM   #125
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

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Originally Posted by lenC View Post
Hi guys, quick question:

I'm going to play live in a foreign country, and I want my backer to pay 50% of the buy-in.
Should I give him 50% of my winnings? Is this okay?

Thanks.
I think 50% of what he put is is ok, meaning if he payed 50% of the roll or buyin, he would get 50% of 50% which is 25% of the profit. That would be fair to me, but I have never staked someone or gotten staked myself.
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