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Old 06-07-2008, 06:57 PM   #51
reginatr
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

this seems like a great contract does work good?
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Old 06-11-2008, 01:40 PM   #52
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Re: ***Official Staking Thread: Ask for/Offer stakes (100 strat post minimum to post)

Very quick question. I'd be very grateful if someone could clarify this for me:

Say I found a backer, and wanted him to stake me 50% of a tournament's buy-in. So, for eg, he invests $500 out of the $1000 entry fee. What is the standard return rate on his $500?
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Old 06-11-2008, 04:48 PM   #53
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

The simple (and sensible) rate would be 25%.

As for fair cuts, if the backer is putting up 100% capital, the cut is 50/50. If the backer is putting up 50% capital, he/she gets 50% of the cut, ie. 25%.

There are other factors that could be taken into account like ROI, backer's demands/wants, trustworthiness, etc. but 25% would be the simple cut.
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Old 06-11-2008, 05:28 PM   #54
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

I've been considering offering the following to a friend: I furnish the money, he gets 75% of the profit, he pays back investment if it bankrupts. Get's one year to pay back, installments fine.

If stake one bankrupts and he is making payments on time I'll probably offer stake two at half-way payoff point.

The player's angle is always that they're such a big favorite, etc. etc. Put their (future) money where their mouth is then, which I expect he will. For 75% of profit they should be willing to assume risk if they truly are a good favorite. I know some pretty good players who leave a string of backers behind them stuck on their action. Not right, imo.

If he loses, he's had an interest free loan/shot, and he's responsible for loss, no free lunch. I have no loss other than stiff on loan (which is long shot) and he's back in action for large % of win. What's wrong with that? Both sides are getting alot.

I'm thinking a man might do very well with a small stable of players under this agreement. I certainly welcome input.

Last edited by Cinch; 06-11-2008 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 06-11-2008, 08:14 PM   #55
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

It's not bad, but if you believe a player's edge to be as good as you claim, as a backer, you should be trying to get more cut, which is why many stakers (and that's what a stake is, to me anyway - you sort of described a poker loan) assume full losses (and/or makeup) because they get a better cut of a player they assume/know already has an edge.
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Old 06-24-2008, 03:30 AM   #56
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

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Originally Posted by dogmonkey View Post
It's not bad, but if you believe a player's edge to be as good as you claim, as a backer, you should be trying to get more cut, which is why many stakers (and that's what a stake is, to me anyway - you sort of described a poker loan) assume full losses (and/or makeup) because they get a better cut of a player they assume/know already has an edge.
The lock income is also appealing, even if it's less, and especially if it's from multiple players. They have no loss but to lose, I have no loss but to get stiffed. And it undercuts the "out" that always seems to happen to the person who can't manage. Disaster strikes and they have the "Sorry I lost your money, it was brutal" speech ready. They lost THEIR money. No free lunch. They know it up front. And they post something collateral wise to cover potential losses. No free lunch. Something they need to hear about 50 times for it to even begin to sink in, with many of them. After all, irresponsibility and/or lack of a professional attitude about money is usually the problem.
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Old 06-25-2008, 02:50 AM   #57
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

This might sound conceded but..... I want to know why Ive had so little interest in stakes? I have so many references, moneywise and other. Im known as a very smart thinking player. ive been coached by many good players. Ive made over 100k at poker. i just dont get why the couple guys i have talked to seem to be finicky. and None of the common stakeer have enquired. Im known as a standup guy when it comes to money. Once when a reg 3 bet but was shy of a 4 bet and had put almost his whole stack in he disconnected and lost the whole pot. I transfered the 400$ right back to him cause thats what is right.(400nl btw). His name is pterydacl in the fr forums. Also i have traded money and played with Nation the mod in vegas. Ive lived with Bobbofitos. the list goes on and on.

Last edited by newschool2; 06-25-2008 at 02:55 AM. Reason: I didnt spell his sn right i cant find it, i barely know the ptero dude.btw chk my post in staking thread +100posts
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Old 06-25-2008, 01:50 PM   #58
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

People are understandably leery about trusting strangers over the internet with any meaningful amount of money. Surely you can understand why this is true?

Also if you've made over 100k from poker I'm assuming you're not talking about a tiny stake. If you're interested in getting staked 100 dollars and grinding 1c/2c pm me and we'll work something out, in general though the default mode for everyone should be cautious when we're talking about decent sums of money and the internet.
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Old 06-26-2008, 12:49 AM   #59
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

thx for the advice. you are right. i finaly put somthing in the monthly thread in my home forum and was staked in less than an hour. i guess people are so ****ty that everyone has to be redic carefull.
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Old 06-26-2008, 11:54 AM   #60
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

Is the contract listed by DavidC. a good contract to use for cash game stakes?
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Old 06-28-2008, 04:03 PM   #61
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

I'd still check with an attorney before agreeing to any true contract, just to double check. Especially considering if you need a contract for the amount of money being exchanged for the stake, you could probably afford a few hundred for a consultation.
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Old 07-14-2008, 02:57 PM   #62
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Re: ***Official Staking Thread: Ask for/Offer stakes (for low post count posters)***

i have been approached by someone about being a possible backer for me on stars and as part of the agreement they want access to my account (password and username). this was a big surprise to me. is this common in staking agreements? seems too risky to me. they could do something illegal with my account. even though the money in the account is going to be theres initially, at some point if im winning, a decent chunk is going to be mine and they could just take it all. anyone have any advice?
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Old 07-14-2008, 03:03 PM   #63
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Re: ***Official Staking Thread: Ask for/Offer stakes (for low post count posters)***

I might allow it until after the backing youve arranged ends. You can change your password after the agreement has been made.
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Old 07-14-2008, 03:25 PM   #64
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

but how do i know this isnt just some elaborate scheme to gain access to other player's accounts to launder money or do something illegal. i sent an email to stars asking for advice too. i really dont like the idea of giving someone else access to my account. i think its a deal breaker for me. can anyone point me in the direction of other staking deals that have had this agreeement? has anyone personally set up a staking deal with this condition?
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Old 07-14-2008, 04:09 PM   #65
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

Does anyone know of any official backers that actually want applicants and such? I sent my info to MTTbackers but they took months to reply, said I was eligible for staking but didn't say anything more. I'm still waiting for their next reply.
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Old 07-14-2008, 05:06 PM   #66
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

KSOT, I would be interested in backing you. PM me
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Old 07-15-2008, 09:39 AM   #67
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

just to clarify a few things plz?

if i arrange and agree a staking deal, then i deposit the amount of money arranged in the stake although the backer hasn't shipped the $$. i then play for ~15 days and he still hasn't sent the money despite me trying to get hold of him/it.

the money i make in that 15 days is 100% mine yes?

also if im receiving a staking and coaching deal over 100k hands is a 50/50 split a bad/fair/good deal?
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Old 07-15-2008, 09:55 AM   #68
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

100k hands isnt bad but sorta gay. I have a 1 month deal with someone who ive known to already be a high caliber player (ive played aggainst him before). He doesnt take my password. but at the end of the stake he I have the hcahnge the email to his name so he can ship the HH's ive play in the month contract we have.


I got staked by plastik cards once and he wanted my password, which i gave to him. I wont evar again. and probably wont work with him again althought everything went relativly ok,


edit- didnt see that it was a coaching deal. in that case a hand # limit is fair. this guy is teaching ou how to fish and thats worth aot of money imo. if hes a solid player this is a great opp for you if you suck.



dont give anyone your password unless you are already busto. or the dude is super legit, super dooooper legit.
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Old 07-19-2008, 12:44 PM   #69
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

Hi all.

I won a VIP package to an Irish Festival which included two $800+$80 main events seats. Am going to take my mate for free but wondering what sort of staking deal should be made. He won't be paying any money but is getting a free seat but then it's not like I've paid out $880 for him. Anyone have any ideas about what % he should play for?

Also we are obviously going to swap say 10% with each other so I'm not sure if that complicates things even more, do I first have 10% of him then we work out a staking deal for the other 90%?? i.e. if we agree 80/20 then I get (0.8 x 90%) + 10% = 82%??

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks!
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Old 07-19-2008, 09:24 PM   #70
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

Maddie i think if you are swopping 10%, then that 10% should not be accounted for in the staking arrangement as he is getting 10% of you in return.
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Old 07-24-2008, 06:33 AM   #71
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

My friend wants me to stake him for one $200 9 seat sng.

What is a fair percent for a one time thing?

I read something about 80/20 for a one time thing earlier in the thread, but that might be because it was an MTT.

Here are his stats just in case it matters:

1,935 $6.13 $64 10% $11,864

Last edited by SlowCheetah; 07-24-2008 at 07:01 AM.
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Old 07-24-2008, 01:59 PM   #72
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Re: ***Official Staking Thread: Ask for/Offer stakes (100 strat post minimum to post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchers View Post
you take all losses, 50/50 profit split is norm.
I understand this for cash games. What is the norm for STTs and MTTs? Same situation, backer takes 100% losses.
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Old 07-24-2008, 02:54 PM   #73
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Re: ***Official Staking Thread: Ask for/Offer stakes (100 strat post minimum to post)

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Originally Posted by KurtSF View Post
I understand this for cash games. What is the norm for STTs and MTTs? Same situation, backer takes 100% losses.
a staking deal usually works like this.

A backer puts up the buy ins or BR for a horse to play.
The horse plays using the backers money.
Profits are split according to predetermined %'s.
If the horse looses the backer looses the money he used to stake the horse.(this is why not many loosing players get stakes).

If you were to arrange a different type of aggrement such as a stake with cake then the backer would not loose all his money. For example if you make a deal with cake then that means that if your horse looses then the money lost in your stake carries over and counts as part of the stakeback in future stakes.

ie, you stake me $55 to play a $55 MTT. I dont cash but the deal had cake. You think i was just unlucky and played well so you stake me for another $55 MTT, this time i come 37th for $368. We agreed to a 60/40 split in you favour so I send you back your $55 + cake(the $55 from the first MTT) = $110+ 60% of the remaining profits and keep the rest of the profits.

Alternatively you can make a deal where you only put up a % of the funds for the horse to play but the profit margins would need to be adjusted accordinly.

ie, a horse wants a stake of $1000 but only has $200 so would need another $800 to be able to play $22 SNGs. You decide to put up the $800 which would mean you are putting up 80% of the BR which entitles you to only(we assume 50/50 split) 40% of the profits, half of the % of the BR you put up, and similarly you only take 40% of the losses. So say that the $1000 drops to $400 then you would get your 80% of that back, $340 and the horse would only get $60 back because his risjk was less to start with.
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Old 07-24-2008, 03:02 PM   #74
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

Thanks for the detailed response.

This is basically what I was after:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchers View Post
We agreed to a 60/40 split
...
(we assume 50/50 split)
So in a long term SNG stake 50/50 would be standard? And any change from 50/50 would be because of other factors (partial backing, exceptional skill, higher than normal risk, etc.)?

That's what I'm getting.
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Old 07-25-2008, 01:39 AM   #75
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for staking advice***

yea, thats pretty much the only factors and I would take into account the length of the stake.

say horses roi% is 10% and were only playing 100 SNGs for the stake its got a greater chance of not making mone ythan a 1000 game stake so i would want a highr % on the first one.
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