from what you said I would think he has your first $1k in mtt buyins then your on your own again, but it isnt very clear

meh, its just a way for backers to not have money out to randoms.

i do this with some new people i stake. what do they need 1k for if they are playing 6.50 mans. might as well take their stakeback out of their account, with the full intention of reloading if they need it...

so, if i ship 100k in a mtt (lol yeah right), would it be ok if i kept all of this in my account? there is no way i will use all of it, so might as well send the stakeback back to my backer, and than go from there.

had to fix that

If you get a $100 stake and happen to get it up to $600, I think it's okay if you both want to take $100 OF THE PROFITS out, or each take $250 etc if it was agreed upon.

The truth is, when he pulls $100 out, he hasn't pulled out his stake. if you won $500 (BR at $600), $350 of that money is his. Pulling $100 effectively cancels his initial risk and leaves you with a $250 bankroll backed by the staker. The correct thing to do with this is to cash out your $250 profit to reset the BR to 100% staker backed.

If he had pulled out $350, then he ended the stake. He didn't. You're still backed by him as he is risking his remaining $250 share to continue rolling you. As I said, the best way to work this out is for the horse to cash out 100% of their share owed and then the backer can decide what to leave in as the BR. If he wants, in this scenario he could cash you down to $100 and repeat.

Hi,

I am talking to a potential backer about entering a deal with a split br, 40% would be mine, 60% is his. profit goes 70% to me, 30% to him.

I have no experience with split deals in backing. Feedback is greatly appreciated, both on the split percentage, and the profit percentage. My roll is 13k atm, and my backer wants to invest 10k as a beginning, 5k as backup. 60% of 10k is 6k, this would be my part.

I would have a roll of 16k, planning to play the majors in the weekend. The weekdays would consist of 20r, 69 FO and lower. Not planning on playing the bigger dailiys, i dont think the br is big enough for that.

Cheers, knut.

Sounds like a good deal. I've heard of a few deals that are 70/30 but they both put up 1/2 the money

Maybe I'm just causing trouble(and mod's feel free to delete this if I'm out of line) but what is the staking forum's policy about selling pieces of people for less than they are charging?

Ie. I sell 10% of him for 600 rather than 635 or something, and then depending on how he does payout accordingly.

After the markup the buyer is effectively paying a 59.5% rake, on small field, poorly structured tournaments and despite having 2 people I recognize vouch for him, I feel like I would fairly happily sell pieces of him at a lower markup than what he is charging.

I feel like there are people who sell themselves too cheaply and people who sell for too much... I feel like people should be able to capitalize off of both

I guess the staking market is nowhere near as lucrative as it once was and doesn't need to get more ****ed up, but to get things even closer to perfect competition, I feel like there shouldn't be anything wrong with this.

*** just an FYI, until mods/the forum ok this, I am in no way offering to sell pieces of anyone other than myself ***

how would make up work in a deal like that?

Amazing idea. prolly only work if they sell out and then people are still trying to buy action else the stakee wont get the monies he/she needs in order to play the event

At least some people have some common sense on here

Seeing as I've nearly sold all my shares this doesn't seem overly workable, perhaps you should start a new thread about it?

I feel like if you are ever selling for a large enough makeup that people want to undersell you, its pretty clear someone is very wrong(since selling pieces of yourself lowers variance in exchange for percieved lower ev, selling pieces of someone else significantly increases your variance for percieved higher ev, basically if you are willing to sell pieces of someone for less than they are of themselves and take much more variance, it means(at least) one party has misaccessed the situation)

I don't think underselling will lead to people not playing the tournaments very often, since people should realize when they purchase that by buying through someone else it could lead to them not getting to play, and if they think the investment is too good to pass up, they can buy for the higher rate(since buying at the lower rate if he doesn't play doesn't actually benefit them)

This change would definitely lead to some people not getting to play tournaments they want to play, but at the same time this shouldn't be a charity where you can capitalize off of the community's generosity/ignorance, it should be an investment.


Also, I'm sorry to Joe, I have nothing against him, and don't mean for my posts to hurt his chances of a stake in any way, I just have been reading all the threads in this forum lately and thinking more about % buying and thought this would be the most appropriate thread for this since there was already discussion

Where is the benefit for you in this assuming he is more +EV than whatever 10%@600 requires him to be?

It works if people are underselling themselves but am missing the spot if they oversell (probs being dumb )

Exactly this. Too many people have no clue about what markup they should charge normally based on results/roi from OPR etc. Too many stakers have no idea if they are getting a good deal or not. I wrote a big guide for staking for mtt players... but didnt get sticked for whatever reason but i think its useful for beginner stakers and stakees so both have a fair deal

Rup - He would be kinda acting as a bookmaker but offering better odds than the stakee. Thats how i saw it

I'm saying that say I think someones roi is 0% and they are selling at a 45% markup, I can sell at any markup and it is profitable for me, in this case I have no idea what his roi is, but as long as I think its over 45 and am willing to take on some variance, I should buy his action, as long as I think his roi is under x, where x is under 45, I should be willing to sell his action for any rate above x

Ah yeah that's what I thought. I think buying action then selling it on will be much more prevalent than selling at a lower price. Also selling at a lower price while I see your point could definitely be deemed pretty offensive/demoralising for the person originally asking for staking.

only problems is OPR reads 16% roi. and even if you say he might be due/ live is easier etc.. for serious investors its needs to be 55%+. I cant see how you get the extra 39% in this case.

id like to say sorry to OP as this has come up on his thread.. but it was going to happen sooner or later

Again, I don't mind that it's come up because i believe it's important (even if it does suck that it came up in this thread)

In terms of roi, it's pretty much impossible for any mtt'er (sfd included) to know their true roi, the fact that three of 2p2's best mtters both vouching for me but saying i'm a good player as definitely +EV in these events that should certainly count for something (and is arguably more of an indicator than an 8k game sample)

It wasn't stickied because it focused way too much on resultts, which is pretty much the worst thing a backer can do it (stats arent very relevant at all).
Cool idea Mike, but make your own thread!

I'm a nit when it comes to stickies; I like to see a forum with not more than 2 or 3 as it cuts out front page real estate for the threads everyone wants to see.

I'm going to sticky that thread for now, and maybe some discussion will help to improve it if people feel that's needed. I'd like to find a way to eventually move the two guides together into one thread.

Im happy for anyone to edit it + improve it. In its current form (far from complete) its still better than nothing

fwiw, imo, reselling pieces in someone else should only be done with their prior approval.

Hoping to get some advice...

I have a friend who is interested in staking me in a series of live tournaments. There are 12 tourneys totaling ~$20k in fees and expenses. This will likely be a one-time deal.

I'm not sure what to offer him. What would you recommend?

70/30 split after taxes with no makeup?
50/50 split after taxes with initial makeup on the $20k?
60/40 w/ makeup?

He understands the risks and has PLENTY of $ to throw around but he is a friend and I don't want to offer him a 'sub-standard' deal.

Also do you think it is fair for me to include an 'opt-out' clause in the contract? That is, say I score a big cash early on should I be able pay him what is owed and then take my own action back?

Again I know there are a million ways to make these deals I just want to offer him a fair deal.

Thanks for your help.

Any help please?

u should be content with 30% no mu, tho 20% would be alright too