WARNING: Staking is a high risk activity. There is no guarantee that the advice in this thread will protect you from being scammed/losing your investment. There is also no assurance that the advice in this thread is actual beneficial. Lastly there is no assurance that the quasi legal advice provided in this thread will hold up in any court of law. Just because a post was moved into the second post in this thread does not mean that its contents are endorsed by twoplustwo.com, its owners, or the moderators of this forum

This thread is to be used to discuss all issues that are relevant to the Staking/Backing community including but not exclusive to:

How do I know if a staking arrangement is right for me?; What is a fair staking deal?; What are common pitfalls that first time backers have?; How do I protect myself from being scammed?; Sample contracts; Dealing with ambiguous contracts and staking disputes; etc.

The best advice in this thread will be edited into the second reply in this thread and the second reply in the official staking thread.

This post will be edited to include staking advice. If you come across any advice that you believe would help the staking community please send one of the marketplace mods a PM so that the information can be added to this thread

The following comprehensive article was written by Bond18

I’ve had this segment requested a number of times and there seems to be a lot of questions and misinformation within the community about staking arrangements. I’m not the most qualified to speak about being a person who is staking (which is fairly irrelevant since very few reading are interested in starting a staking empire) but I do feel quite qualified in talking about being staked. First, a little history in my experience being backed.

Outside a couple of one off deals I had in tournaments I’ve had two large backing experiences. The first was with a friend from Milwaukee named Rob who knew I had come close to busting my roll. I approached him about backing and he was pretty eager at the chance since he knew I worked quite hard at improving and was trustworthy. Our starting deal was a fairly strange one, he gave me a roll of $10,000. If I lost it I was expected to pay back half through whatever methods I ended up making money from (that is, one day getting a job) and if I won he got 1/3rd of the profits. Basically, I was half staked. I was under Rob from around December 2005 until September 2007. In that period I think I made Rob something like $60,000 for himself, though I’ll never be entirely sure. Our basic arrangement was that I played whatever I thought was appropriate, but always okayed what I intended through him ahead of time and kept things within the bankroll. Our deal ended very amicably with him having made a sizeable profit and my having built a considerable roll with minimal risk for myself. Rob had both my online and live action, though if I chose to take an event off and play it for myself that option was always available to me.

My second and better known arrangement as been my deal with Timex . I told Timex around April 2007 that I’d be going to the WSOP and if he wanted to do any backing for the events I was open minded. Timex put a team together and had us sign contracts that said we were obligated through the entirety of the World Series. When the series was over I had lost him $61,000 and he asked if I wanted to keep going in future live events. We kept the deal running and also included the highest stakes online tournaments (mostly 1k buy ins and occasional FTOPS and WCOOP events) which I am too nity to play. At one point with Timex I was in over $125,000 worth of make up, but at the current point the number sits around $90,000. Our deal is 60-40 in his favor and he is accountable for all loses.

Now on to less self absorbed content; the most frequent question I see asked about staking is what a standard deal is. It’s hard to say exactly what the standard deal is, based on the quality of player, the stakes he’s playing for, his volume of play, whether he’s doing both online and live, etc. It seems though that the majority of staking deals are either 60-40 in the backers favor with make up or 50-50 with make up. As far as deals with no make up are concerned (often done for a single event situation) the standard seems to be 80-20 in the backers favor, though considering the variance involved there those numbers can fluctuate to a good degree.

Next most frequently asked seems to be how to get staked. This is a pretty elaborate topic. I think a list of qualities and steps towards getting backed will be appropriate here:

1. Honesty: First and foremost a player who wants to be backed needs to be considered trustworthy. If you don’t have this you are pretty much useless to a backer. Backers don’t want to operate like babysitters and they don’t want to have to deal with players who might be lying, stealing, or omitting details to them. Having an honest reputation within the community goes a long way.

2. Communication: A player needs to let his backer know what he intends to do and how. He needs to let him know what he needs and what he’ll provide. One of the most common problems in backing arrangements is a player playing an event and the backer and player not being entirely sure if the other thinks he has his action. If there is any event you either intend or hope to play, you always must let your backer know in advance to get approval unless he has given you free reign ahead of time.

3. Quality play: Smart backers know that skilled play is considerably more important than results. I can’t stress enough that just because you have some killer results doesn’t mean you deserve backing. There are plenty of random donks who run hot over a small sample and final table or take down a few tournaments and seem to think they are now entitled to a sweet backing deal. A backer wants to see a quality thought process and skilled play much more than he wants to see a few big tournament scores. If you want to establish a reputation for quality play you really ought to be contributing to strategy discussion in poker forums. It’s not only a great way to improve and learn from some of the better minds in the game, but it’s a way to prove that you think deeply about the game as well. When approaching a backer who is less than familiar with your play be willing to submit a number of animated hand histories for him to evaluate. More can be learned from this than giving them a link to your OPR stats and saying “look how much I crush dude! Ship the stakage!” As Timex puts it: “one thing to keep in mind is that even though you may be a profitable player when covering 100% of losses and getting 100% of profits, that isn't equivalent to being profitable covering 100% OF losses and getting only 60% of profits(which is the situation that the backer is accepting). So if you are a reasonable winner at your games, and think you would like a backing deal to play slightly bigger games, put yourself in the backers shoes and realize that if you aren't killing the smaller games, its difficult for you to be profitable enough at the bigger games to make it a profitable investment for the backer. And also, don't PM me, I'm more or less done looking for new horses at the moment.” Thanks boss.

4. Be easy going and accommodating: A backer doesn’t want to deal with someone who is demanding and inflexible. If a backer asks you to do something that’s reasonable, such as not play a certain tournament, don’t get your ****ing panties in a knot and your ego offended. It’s okay to tell a backer you’d really like to play a certain tournament, but going on and on about how massively +EV you are is annoying and depending on who you are and which tournament you’re talking about, possibly delusional.

5. Keep good records: Both the backer and the player should be keeping records. This will prevent possible mix ups in the future. Nothing quite dissolves a backing arrangement like an argument over money, so make sure you keep close enough track of what’s going in and out that this shouldn’t happen, and if it does, it’s easily rectified.

6. Approaching a backer: It’s pretty well known who the main backers are in the online poker community. The most normal way most are approached is either through PM or email. If you’re some nobody messaging out of the blue I don’t like your chances. However, if you have well respected friends in the poker community who are willing to vouch for your ability and trustworthiness this will help. Be mindful though, that establishing yourself in the community ahead of time is pretty relevant. If you’re a new player who has zero reputation, a few good results, and few connections your chances of getting backed are slim to none. Most of the major backers get numerous requests for backing a day, so your reputation needs to proceed you to have a realistic shot.

Next, people often ask ‘is backing right for me?’ First of all that depends on what you’re trying to achieve. Most people seeking backing are looking to get backed for what they can’t afford, and among internet players that mostly means being backed for live play since the buy ins are so high. Most players would obviously prefer to be staked only for live play and keep online for themselves, though these deals are not terribly common. The majority of backing deals, especially for less established players or new to the backing scene, are for a combination of online and live poker. You need to consider though, that in this kind of deal you run the risk of accumulating a high amount of live make up and then having to work it off with all your online volume, meaning you have no actual income for perhaps months at a time. These kind of backing deals give you the opportunity to make a large live score, but conversely put you in a position you’ll see zero online winnings if you run bad live.

We should also discuss make up. For those who aren’t aware make up is similar to debt but not the same thing. Make up is what you are down on your backing arrangement, but not necessarily money owed to your backer. That is to say, if you are in make up for $50,000, and have a net worth of $100,000 and for some reason are no longer able to play poker, you do not owe the backer $50,000 out of your own money. As far as leaving a backing arrangement in make up for no reason goes, unless you are under contract there isn’t necessarily repercussions in the traditional form of something like a lawsuit (or broken legs) but there are factors to consider. First of all if you leave a backer while in make up for no good reason it is very unlikely you’ll ever find another backer since word of your actions will get around. Also, some would consider this unethical, and it is a considerable grey area of morality. While you indeed have the right to opt out of your staking arrangement while in make up for no legitimate reason, the damage it will do to your reputation in the poker community is something you need to weigh it heavily against. A backer and a player need to set the conditions of what happens when a player is in make up but wants to change or leave an arrangement ahead of time.

Lastly there are two quick questions that often come up. First, in the case of FPP’s, who is entitled to them, the backer or player. The vast majority of the time it is the player who is considered entitled to the FPP’s. The other issue deals with expenses, travel and accommodation can be quite expensive in regards to live poker. While there are some deals that include these, the majority of the time the player is expected to pay these out of pocket.

I hope this settles some of the confusion.

------------------------

The following is a sample backing contract for the WSOP events.

Disclaimer: This document was created by a twoplustwo poster and is not endorsed by the owners of this forum. It has not been reviewed by any lawyer. It may or may not be legally binding in your jurisdiction and may or may not be missing vital details that you should discuss with the other party in the deal. Do not enter into deals with people you don’t trust as it is questionable whether this document alone will protect you!


Contract for backing arrangement between [] ("Backee") and [] ("Backers"):
Adjust percentages as appropriate

1) This Contract will be governed and executed under the internal laws of the State of [Nevada]. All of the terms listed and defined herein are assumed to mean exactly what is stated in the Contract.

2) This is the only binding understanding between Backers and Backee, and no other oral or written modifications to this Contract will have any effect, except for the specific options listed in paragraphs 3 and 14.
3) Backers will provide ("stake") Backee with the buy-ins to play a set schedule of poker tournaments (Attachment A). Each Backer will individually pay 1/2 the total buy-in for all tournaments that Backee enters under the stake, for a total of 100% of the initial buy-ins. In return, if Backee receives any prize money in a tournament, he will first refund ("makeup") each Backer's buy-in percentage for every tournament in full, then pay Backers 25% each of any remaining profits from these tournaments, for a total of 50% of the profits after the makeup is calculated.

4) Makeup is defined as outstanding debt from tournament buyins, accrued on a rolling basis. Makeup money must be paid back before any profits are split. For example, if Backee spends $120k in buy-ins and has cashed for $200k, he must pay $120k to Backers (split 50% each, in accordance with paragraph 3) before the remaining $80k can be split as profit. The final $80K is then divided between Backers and Backee on a 25%/25%/50% basis, again in accordance with paragraph 3.

5) If Backee owes makeup at the end of the schedule's completion, or if Backee does not owe makeup but wishes to continue on the stake, Backers have the option to continue this Contract in exchange for providing a further $100k in buy-ins. This means that Backers have a right to stake Backee in any live poker tournaments of their choice – meaning the only live tournaments Backee may enter must be preapproved by Backers under the terms of this deal – until another $100k in buy-ins has been accrued. The terms for this further stake will be identical to those in this Contract, and any existing makeup will continue to accrue. If this option is exercised and ends with the Backee still owing makeup, this Contract will terminate and the Backee is released from all obligations to repay it unless a new Contract is entered into by mutual agreement.

6) Backee may leave the stake at the end of the set schedule of tournaments only if Backee does not owe money in makeup, and in no case before Backee's play in the World Series of Poker Main Event has concluded. For future staking following the listed schedule of events, Backee may leave any time the stake is above the initial investment (including any makeup owed).

7) Any time the overall net profit on the stake, after any makeup has been deducted, exceeds $200k, Backers and Backee will immediately split the profits as stated in point 3. Profits will also be split after any individual win exceeding $400k. The final split of any profits will occur at the completion of the listed schedule of events in Attachment A, unless otherwise agreed upon by both parties as per points 4 and 5 above.

8) All local, state, federal and international taxes, if applicable, are the responsibility of the individual receiving their share of the proceeds under this Contract. Neither Backers nor Backee are responsible for any taxes other than those they themselves may incur as a result.

9) Backee agrees not to be staked by anyone else in any live poker tournaments during the duration of the stake.

10) Backee is not obligated to play all of the tournaments on the list, although he is obligated to play any live poker tournament he enters while the Contract is in effect under its terms.

11) Backers have the exclusive right to veto, modify or accept any attempt of Backee to trade a percentage of his profits with any other player in any given tournament(s). If a trade is accepted by the Backers, Backee and the player must exercise their agreement in writing.

12) If a tournament does not take place for any reason or if Backee fails to enter any given tournament, Backee owes Backers a refund of that tournament's buy-in.

13) Backee is alloted an $8k maximum $ spent on buy-ins (including both rebuys and add-ons) for each $1k rebuy tournament. Any $ not spent on rebuys must be refunded to backers.

14) Money to enter any given event must be recieved by Backee by the morning of that event, unless all parties involved agree to arrange for Backee to receive it at a later time.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the Parties hereto have executed this Contract as of the date first written above.

Date:
Name: _____________________________
"Backer"

Date:
Name: _____________________________
“Backer”

Date:
Name: _____________________________
“Backee”

[insert schedule here, on a new page - title "Attachment A"]

I contracts for stuff like this, even if they're not enforceable, just to prevent incorrect expectations and to promote smooth business. If you guys could look this over, I'd appreciate it. It's written for cash games, and borrows a little from the contract above.

Staking Agreement

Terms:

Contract: This agreement.
Backer: This is the person risking all or some of the money that will be gambled by the Backee, as per this Agreement.
Backee: This is the person using money given by the Backer to gamble with, for the benefit of both the Backer and the Backee.
Parties: Backer and Backee
DB Program: This is a poker recording software, that will contain the official wins and losses for the month.
Database: This is the Database that contains the hand histories relevant to recording wins and losses for the agreement, used by the DB Program.
Outside Game: Any poker game that is not mentioned in the Parameters of Contract.
Contained Games: Games which are mentioned in Parameters.

Parameters:

Version: This is version 1.0 of the contract.
Backer:
Backee:
Site:
Game: Limit Texas Holdem
Limits: $3/6
Format: 6-max
Backee’s Username on Site:
Win % Kept by Backer: 33.3333
Loss % Paid by Backer: 33.3333
Rakeback: Backee
Bonuses: Backee
Player Points: Backee
Other Promotions: Backee
Other Expenses: Backee
Deposit: $1200
Deposit Receipt Date: March 29th, 2009.
Start Date: April 1st, 2009.
Stop Date: April 30th, 2009.
Official Midnight: 4am Eastern Time.
Minimum Hands: 25,000
Maximum Hands: 32,600
Date of payment: May 2nd, 2009.
DB Program: PokerTracker 3
Database:

Agreement:

Purpose of Contract:
To set accurate expectations and provide protection for Parties.

Limitations of Games:
Contract only deals with games addressed by Site, Game, Limits, and Format contained within Contract. All other games played by Backee will be at the sole risk of and reward to Backee.

Division of Wins and Losses:
If Backee won money during Contract, Backee will give Backer a portion of those winnings equal to the “Win % Kept by Backer”, as well as his deposit. If Backee lost money during Contract, Backee will return to Backer his deposit, less the portion of loss which Backer agreed to pay under “Loss % Paid by Backer”. As an example, if Backer agrees to cover 50% of losses and deposits $2000, and Backee loses $1000, then Backer is returned $1500. If Backee agrees to give Backer 50% of wins, and Backee wins $2000, and Backer Deposits $2000, under that agreement, Backer is paid $3000.

Taxes:
All local, state, federal and international taxes, if applicable, are the responsibility of the individual receiving their share of the proceeds under this Contract. Neither Backers nor Backee are responsible for any taxes other than those they themselves may incur as a result.

Additional Details on Format:
In the case of playing 6-max tables, if the table drops to 3-handed or less, Backee is not allowed to play on behalf of Backer. Therefore hands with 3 or less players will be filtered out to determine all values of the contract.

Hours played per 24 hours:
Backee will not play for more than 11 hours consequetively, nor for more than 11 hours in any 24-hour period unless there has been a period of at least 7 hours between sessions.

Week Start Day:
The Week will be considered to start on Wednesday.

Hours played per week:
Backee will not play more than 60 hours in a week.

Playing Outside Games:
Backee may play Outside Games within the guidelines in this section. Backee is expected to play Outside Games in such a manner as to maintain faith with Backer to provide highest levels of play while playing Contained Games. This implies Backee not allowing himself to become exhausted, and therefore playing within the maximum hours listed for all gambling activities as a sum. It also implies that Backee does not risk his bankroll to the point where he could endanger the Backer’s deposit.

Backer and Backee Playing In the Same Game:
Backer and Backee may not play in the same game during the duration of Contract.

Additional Backing:
Backee may not enter into any other staking agreements within the context of Contract. Backee may not enter into staking agreements with any other person with respect to Outside Games without express permission of Backer.

Trading Action:
Backer has the exclusive right to veto, modify or accept any attempt of Backee to trade a percentage of his profits with any other player in any Outside or Contained Game. If a trade is accepted by the Backer, Backee and the player must exercise their agreement in writing in Contained Games.

Database Backup:
Database should be backed up at least once per week to another file on Backee’s computer, preferably to another device altogether, if possible.

Recovering, Rebuilding, or Repairing the Database:
Backee must make all reasonable effort to ensure that Database remains protected and in good working order, such that it may be used for this agreement. Furthermore, Backee must make all reasonable efforts to repair Database should any corruption of data occur.

Hand Histories:
Hand histories played within the period of Contract may be requested by Backer after Stop Date. Hand Histories must be requested within 3 days of Stop Date, and must be provided within 3 days of being requested.

Datamining:
Backer is permitted to Datamine Backee. However, Database will be the official measurement of the values relevant to Contract.

Alteration of Agreement:
Any alteration of the contract must be done in an email from the Party proposing the change, containing the subject: BINDING OFFER: (subject), and BINDING OFFER again at the top of the body of the email. Email in response to that will contain either: OFFER ACCEPTED or OFFER DECLINED, in capital letters. If offer is accepted, the Binding Offer should be contained within the body of the email confirming that the offer is accepted. All other forms of discussion of Contract are considered not to be binding.

Termination of Contract:
a) If Parties Agree
a. Contract can be terminated in any way in which Parties agree, at any time. This is considered an Alteration of Agreement.
b) If Deposit Is Lost
a. Contract can be terminated at Backer’s discretion if losses accrued by Backee have cost the Backer an amount equal to his deposit. If the Backer chooses to continue the Contract at that point, he may give Backee another deposit of an agreed-upon amount (no more than initial deposit unless Backer agrees). Backee will stop playing on behalf of Backer until he receives the new deposit (unless Backer and Backee agree otherwise), and Contract will be extended to compensate for days lost while the new deposit is being transferred to Backee (unless Backer and Backee agree otherwise). If the deposit takes longer than 3 days to reach Backee, Backee may terminate Contract.
c) If Maximum Hands is Reached
a. If Maximum Hands is reached, either party may terminate Contract before Stop Date. Wins and Losses will be divided as per Contract, at that time. Parties may agree to continue Contract until Stop Date while retaining the option of terminating Contract at any time, or they may agree to continue Contract until Stop Date without option of Termination.
d) If Minimum Hands is Not Reached
a. If Minimum Hands is not reached, Backer may choose to terminate Contract. If Win % Kept by Backer and Loss % Paid by Backer are equal, then wins and losses are divided at this point as per Contract. If Win % Kept by Backer is less than Loss % Paid by Backer, then either wins and losses are divided as per Contract, or Backer receives Deposit back, whichever is greater. If Backer does not wish to Terminate Contract, he may extend Contract for another period of time equal to the time contained in the initial Contract. Upon completion of this new term, either party may elect to Terminate Contract, with wins and losses divided as described in this paragraph. If Contract is extended, the only thing that changes with respect to the original Contract is the Stop Date.
e) Upon Stop Date
a. Once Stop Date is reached, if Minimum Hands has been reached, Contract is terminated and a new agreement must be entered if Parties so desire.

I posted something in B&M http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...d.php?t=167276

and was directed here. What kind of arrangements are typical for cash game backing of proven players? I searched through 7 or 9 pages in this thread, but couldn't find any info.

Just please discuss your experiences with us when you're done.

I will. I can relate some experiences that I have had. I have been staked in the past for cash games but have never backed anybody. The agreements we used was 50/50 split. I was staked several times in my life and it was often by the same person. He is my fraternity brother and best friend. We played a lot of poker together through the years as well as other advantage games. We both understand variance and trust each other completely. Nothing is more important than this.

A few years ago I was backed by 3 or 4 people. We used the same formula of 50/50. We would split when either I won x amount of money (a certain percentage of the bank), double the bank, exhausted the bank, or after a certain amount of months or a certain amount of hours-whichever came first.

I would get 50% and the investors would get the other 50%, in relation to how much they had invested. I had never given it much thought until recently when I wondered if there is another way?

Another idea I thought about was to invest an amount of money, but then ask for a certain return on my investment in, perhaps 3 or 4 months time. .

What would you think of asking for a 20% return after perhaps 3 months? If he doesn't show a big enough profit after that time...well I don't know what; perhaps split things 50/50 and keep it going.

Of course I kept records of every session on excel. I also set up a secure website where I uploaded the data so the investors could see what happened daily.

One time I staked my buddy for 10/20 game who didn't want to play higher than 5/10 live due to variance. The issue that we ran into is that he played in some of the 5/10 (live) before moving to the 10/20 (live) and we didn't really understand whether or not I had him backed in the 5/10 or not. That sucked, but luckily not too badly. Since then I've been a lot more explicit with anyone I've done business with.

Of the stuff you're proposing, basically any agreement is ok as long as both parties agree and it's clear what they're agreeing to. However, the main thing is that you'd like to set something up where both parties are likely to profit (therefore the "standard" agreements of someone paying all losses but accepting 50% of wins in one night of cash game play is pretty ridiculous for the backer). What you're talking about at the bottom there is just a loan, not really backing in the traditional sense. So... I mean, that's a pretty straight forward thing. Generally speaking, though, for gambling, I'd like higher than 20% on 3 months.

Question RE: Taxes

If I stake someone who is American and he wins some live tourney in Vegas (does it matter where it is within USA?) will the taxes be paid immediately? Obviously it drastically affects the variance/winrate so would be a decision breaker for me

If i'm with him (or a UK friend or something) at the time of cash out can I claim the cash out then send him online money later or something?

Is there a typical percentage for staking of an individual tournament? For example, if I paid 80% of the entry fee for a particular player, what would be the typical amount or range of the winnings I would be entitled to? Is there a standard or range for individual events?

I'm looking to set up one-time staking deals for the $650 WSOP satellites. What would be a fair chop for full staking?

If you're talking about giving someone a 1-shot kinda deal it's generally 80/20 no makeup.

where would someone go to find a backer?

Someone looking for a backer should become very active in the strategy forums posting quality advice and proving their merits. Spend a couple months responding to almost every strategy thread using a detailed analysis (ie. Don't just write 'fold' but discuss the villains hand ranges and what you are representing etc.) and PM the prominent posters in that forum if you have any questions about a hand.

After you spend some time proving that you are a quality player and that you think about the game in the right way, and after improving your game through analyzing hands (don't be afraid about being wrong when you post advice either, the most productive threads that I have participated in are the ones where I am proven to be giving bad advice) you should then post in the thread in the marketplace forum stating that you are looking for a stake.

Some people will skip the step of participating in the strategy forums but quite frankly anyone who chooses to stake someone who is not active in strategy discussions should have their judgment called into question and as someone looking for a stake you should not want to get involved with someone who has such poor judgment.

Cornell Fiji I understand what you are saying, but why would anyone have their judgement question for backing a player who does not post much or at all? Maybe they have a good line from PT or another tracking site. Also you did not answer my question. Where does one go to get a backer? This is supposed to be the official thread but I see no one asking for a backer here.

Sigh. Maybe the thread farther up the page titled ***Official Staking Request Thread: Use this thread to ask for/offer stakes***?

Could someone give me some info on how cashgame staking deals should/could work?
For example if I roll someone with $500 for nl25, how should the stakee refund me?

Cash stakes vary depending on the periodic timing that you settle up. Do you settle up after each session, day, week or longer? The longer the period, the fewer times that you have money transfers.

Another issue is the move-up/move-down question. If you run hot, can the stakee go higher? Should the stakee get express approval to do so? What if a juicy fish appears at a higher level?

I'm thinking of staking several friends into the Full Tilt 150 seat WSOP ME sat. For the purposes of discussion, assume they are of average talent. I've never been involved in staking from either side of an arrangement, so I have no idea what a fair split would be.

If one of them wins a 12K seat, and chooses not to play the ME, what would be a fair split? Is 50/50 more for me than usual, or less for me than usual?

If one of them wins a 12K seat, and plays the ME, what would be a fair split of their winnings, if any? Is 50/50 more for me than usual, or less for me than usual?

I appreciate your input.

80/20 in your favor is the 'norm' for a one time tournament staking deal like this but you should do whatever you and your friends are comfortable with.

If your friends are just average, a 80/20 seems realistic/fair really as they wouldn't be playing in it on their own and such.

As for the cash stake of $500 at NL25, usually the split is 50/50 (or whatever percentage you two worked out given stats/history, etc.) after inital repayment. So if he makes $1500 the first, month say, when you want payouts/distrubutions, it would go to $1000 after you get your initial $500 back, then divide it up 50/50, 60/40, etc., and start back over at $500 (basically recycling) or you can just keep building up the bankroll after you get your $500 back and not divide anything up.

Because there's less evidence publicly available that they're a good player.

If you have enough faith in your own judgement to go against the crowd, do so.

Yea please dont msg me with staking if u have no posts here or credentials.

FWIW I decided to go with 60% to the player and 40% to the investor for the cash game question I asked about before

Hey guys I'm new to this site, have been an occasional reader for some time. I primarily read P5's and post some there. I would like to possibly do some staking on some smaller limit players. I basically look as this as a form of potentially investing some of my poker winnings. I understand all of the risks involved but feel that this could be a really good opportunity given the right situation. I would appreciate any and all tips/feedback from anybody who has staked before. The main question I have is how do you know that you aren't getting scammer (ie they withdrawl before they show you a screenshot of account balance.) I'm assuming you should be able to see an account balance and transaction history as well as PT info which should cover things, but how do you know the screenshots weren't photoshopped?? Sorry if these are silly questions and I sound like a newb, but I really would appreciate all feedback. You can post here, PM me, or email me @ scottw@mscloan.com Thanks in advance for your help!!

KCBlitzz