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Old 06-10-2010, 04:43 AM   #151
rAnnnnn
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zima421 View Post
some people are broke and they cant play without a stake.
or/and it makes the stakee more comfortable, so they dont need to worry about the money. This will (hopefully) result in better playing.
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Old 06-11-2010, 12:12 PM   #152
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

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Originally Posted by Zima421 View Post
some people are broke and they cant play without a stake.
or they can't handle the variance and daily swings these +EV games gives them, like HSMTT and juicy live cash games
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Old 07-02-2010, 03:01 AM   #153
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

Could someone explain this part to me?

Quote:
Then it resets to zero and the new week begins. HOWEVER if the stakee is negative, it just carries over to the next week. It blows my mind how often stakees think that they can lose 5 buyins, then the next 7 they make are split 50/50. That is absolutely nuts, yet for some reason they think that all of the time, quite mystifying to me.
So in said scenario, the 2nd week the stakee should get to keep 1BI and the staker gets 1BI, while in week 1 nothing happens?
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Old 07-02-2010, 11:05 PM   #154
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

As long as the stake is in the positive, profits are split 50/50 every week. But if one week the horse loses $200, and the staker has to ship him $200 to even out his bankroll, he needs to make that money right first.

Week 1: +200 (backer & horse each take $100)
Week 2: +300 (backer and horse take $150)
Week 3: -200 (backer sends horse $200 to even roll)
Week 4: +100 (backer takes $100, horse takes $0)
Week 5: +300 (backer takes $200, horse takes $100)

The reason it works this way is really obvious to any backer but horses sometimes don't get it.
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Old 07-04-2010, 11:36 AM   #155
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

When should you chop if you are staking a guy in 2/5 NL on LIVE cash games?

I was going to do every 4-5 buyins profit chop 50/50.
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Old 07-04-2010, 01:34 PM   #156
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

Thats fine.
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Old 08-04-2010, 05:33 AM   #157
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

Hey Guys, great thread. read most of it.
I'am a college student going back to school in september and I'am thinking of backing some players. I'am looking into backing 3-4 PLO players @ a certain stake. I would like to back them @ 50max plo, But I feel its too big of a risk since it is my first time backing anyone. my questions are:
-How many buyin are standard for a PLO stake? I was thinking of 40 buyins assuming horse 4tables-6tables
-Should I be diversifying my horses in terms of the sites they play on. For example My ideal Horse would be someone playing On FTP with RB.However, If I were to choose 4 horses. It would be pretty -EV for all of them to grind at the same time.
-Best way to check results besides Table ratings as it is extremely inaccurate.
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Old 08-04-2010, 10:13 AM   #158
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

Have them get HEM or PT3 for omahah to track results. Or play on Stars with Audits.

40 buyins is excessive to give up front but for 4-6 tabling. It may be the right amount because of the variance associated, thats for you to decide, but you don't need to give it all at once.

If you're worried about horses playing together you can try to pick people who generally play at different times of the day (different countries), or you can explore other sites with rakeback.
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Old 08-07-2010, 08:51 AM   #159
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

Quote:
Originally Posted by JL514 View Post
Have them get HEM or PT3 for omahah to track results. Or play on Stars with Audits.

40 buyins is excessive to give up front but for 4-6 tabling. It may be the right amount because of the variance associated, thats for you to decide, but you don't need to give it all at once.

If you're worried about horses playing together you can try to pick people who generally play at different times of the day (different countries), or you can explore other sites with rakeback.
Thanks for the response
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Old 09-01-2010, 09:12 PM   #160
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

Is there a standard or well figured out way to chop rakeback at stars? This would be for a nl25 grinder who 24 tables and has gold VIP status.
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Old 09-02-2010, 03:12 PM   #161
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

Typically fpp value is split via 280fpp sats to the sunday lotto or in bigger cases the 5300s to the SM etc. Can either split T$ value or take % of the action if the tourney is played.
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Old 09-19-2010, 10:51 AM   #162
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

i dont like this post u cant say players aint good enough to stake because they lost there roll taking a shot every one makes mistakes i took a shot at 1000nl and lost 6k in a week which was my whole roll but i have learnt from the one time mistake
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Old 09-22-2010, 01:48 PM   #163
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

Hi,
I'm a noob in staking, but I've got a friend who is considering a stake thus the question.
He's a heads-up player who is a winning nl100/200 hu reg but cashed out a bunch and went on a big downer. He's got money on a pokerstars account (don't know how much though) but busted FTP account. We were talking about me staking him (since he'd have to start at nl50 on ftp if I don't stake him).
1) Is it standard I stake him only on FTP (meaning I'm not getting a cut from his PS winnings)
2) I would like to stake him for nl100 then maybe if he wants for nl200 (after he makes profit and shows he's winning there again). How should I approach it? I've read in this forum that standard is 50/50 /w makeup. I was thinking about him making x$ at nl100 before moving up to nl200 and then end the deal after he made x$ @nl200. Do I collect profit at the end of the stake? Not really sure what's the standard.

Thx for any help, I don't have experience with this at all and I don't want to be unfair because of no experience in staking.
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Old 10-23-2010, 06:14 AM   #164
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

the information was very helpfull. thx
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Old 11-13-2010, 11:19 PM   #165
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

Excellent post Doug. In your opinion, to what extent does collusion occur, by design or not, by members of the same staking team....each likely knowing they have the same staker. Some team members by design share in each others profits, as you know. Do you as the staker ever play in the same MTTs as your stakees? tx
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Old 11-15-2010, 07:46 PM   #166
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

its a thread about cash games
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Old 11-18-2010, 02:09 PM   #167
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

So my stakee just told me that he could use some money during Christmas time, and that in his last stake they split profits every week. I didn't know this, and our written agreement had no mention of cashouts before the stake was ended and the implication from it was that profit would be split at the end of the stake (that's how I did previous stakes and particularly that's how I did it when I was staked, and I modeled this after the agreement when I was staked but made it much more detailed). That said, it's 100k hands of hu, which is a significant amount to not be cashing out for, and so far he seems to be playing reasonably well and is good with communicating, which can't be taken for granted, so I want to be reasonable. Can a couple people suggest ways to go about this?
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Old 11-18-2010, 07:35 PM   #168
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

yeah.. cash him out?
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Old 11-18-2010, 08:47 PM   #169
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

Quote:
Originally Posted by alex23 View Post
So my stakee just told me that he could use some money during Christmas time, and that in his last stake they split profits every week. I didn't know this, and our written agreement had no mention of cashouts before the stake was ended and the implication from it was that profit would be split at the end of the stake (that's how I did previous stakes and particularly that's how I did it when I was staked, and I modeled this after the agreement when I was staked but made it much more detailed). That said, it's 100k hands of hu, which is a significant amount to not be cashing out for, and so far he seems to be playing reasonably well and is good with communicating, which can't be taken for granted, so I want to be reasonable. Can a couple people suggest ways to go about this?
seems like you are on your way to the right outcome by the tone of your post, but i will share some thoughts.

100k hands of HU is a ton of hands. people gotta eat/live/pay bills. you should really structure your deals to give them more regular cashouts. i actually am staking a HU cash guy for a 100k hand set, and we do cashouts after every 25k hands.

If a horse i stake for lets say 50fos and lower binks a score for like 15k and his cashout dates are the end of the month, there is no reason to keep 15k in his accounts. i just do a pre-cashout for him that way he can get some money to live. i dont really need the money for anything really, but they do appreciate the early cashouts 99% of the time.

sounds dumb, but just do what you think is best/do what you would want as a horse (from a backers perspective). I have created a lot of loyal horses that way.
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Old 11-20-2010, 10:39 AM   #170
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zima421 View Post
seems like you are on your way to the right outcome by the tone of your post, but i will share some thoughts.

100k hands of HU is a ton of hands. people gotta eat/live/pay bills. you should really structure your deals to give them more regular cashouts. i actually am staking a HU cash guy for a 100k hand set, and we do cashouts after every 25k hands.

If a horse i stake for lets say 50fos and lower binks a score for like 15k and his cashout dates are the end of the month, there is no reason to keep 15k in his accounts. i just do a pre-cashout for him that way he can get some money to live. i dont really need the money for anything really, but they do appreciate the early cashouts 99% of the time.

sounds dumb, but just do what you think is best/do what you would want as a horse (from a backers perspective). I have created a lot of loyal horses that way.
It actually doesn't sound dumb at all when you explain why.
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Old 12-04-2010, 06:43 PM   #171
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

I'm thinking of staking a rakeback pro. He plays a ton, but has big downswings here and there due to being a rb pro. I'm an affiliate and would receive a good commission if I did this. Anyone have any thoughts? The only think that crosses my head is that I should probably look for a longer hand agreement since lower winrate players have higher risk of ending in the red at the end of the stake over short stakes.
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Old 12-05-2010, 04:00 PM   #172
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

depends on how much he wants the deal, you could stipulate he cant stop the agreement in makeup
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Old 12-06-2010, 11:37 PM   #173
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

sounds messy and frustrating
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Old 12-15-2010, 12:18 AM   #174
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

What hand sample size do backers generally want to see before they even consider backing someone for micro/low limits?

Are the backings usually done for players who no longer have rolls (for a non-degen reason) but want to continue at their current limit, or can it be a staking/coaching deal to move up to the next limit?

Am I right to assume rakeback is considered part of the split?

Obviously it depends, but I'd like to know if I should even bother considering it as a possible option for next school semester.
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Old 12-15-2010, 12:31 AM   #175
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWarrior View Post
What hand sample size do backers generally want to see before they even consider backing someone for micro/low limits?
Probably at least 100k hands
Are the backings usually done for players who no longer have rolls (for a non-degen reason) but want to continue at their current limit, or can it be a staking/coaching deal to move up to the next limit?
Both
Am I right to assume rakeback is considered part of the split?
Generally yes, unless the player is very good
Obviously it depends, but I'd like to know if I should even bother considering it as a possible option for next school semester.
I don't know your results but give it a shot
FYI
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