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Old 03-09-2009, 09:24 PM   #76
aintgonnawork
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

I'm going to be entering into a staking agreement with a friend, my first time doing this. I don't want to rip him off, and don't want to give him a sweetheart deal, just want it to be fair, sort of industry standard. The info here is very helpful, just a couple questions:

1) How long does the agreement normally last? I understand you can agree on whatever you want, I'm just looking for an idea of what's typical;
2) Does the original stake always stay in play, or does the backer ever take it out. Like, say I start him with 1000, would it ever be normal for the backer to take the first grand back and then start splitting?
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Old 03-10-2009, 12:05 PM   #77
cds0699
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

Quote:
Originally Posted by aintgonnawork View Post
I'm going to be entering into a staking agreement with a friend, my first time doing this. I don't want to rip him off, and don't want to give him a sweetheart deal, just want it to be fair, sort of industry standard. The info here is very helpful, just a couple questions:

1) How long does the agreement normally last? I understand you can agree on whatever you want, I'm just looking for an idea of what's typical;
2) Does the original stake always stay in play, or does the backer ever take it out. Like, say I start him with 1000, would it ever be normal for the backer to take the first grand back and then start splitting?
Normal deal is for like a month imo, you wanna give him time to overcome a lil variance and to build some profit. If down after a month you and the player can make a decision on whether to continue grinding to get back to even or just end it.

Its perfectly fine to get the stake back early. For example, you stake the player $1k to play $50NL for 1 month, he goes on a sick heater in the 1st 2 weeks and doubles it to $2k, him sending the original $1k back is very standard, ship the orig stake back and continue on with the profit, then chop it in the end.

Also, a lot of stakers only send a smaller portion at once, so if you have a $1k total stake for $50NL then most backers would ship $500 to start and have the other $500 available if needed, that too is very standard.
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Old 04-06-2009, 11:12 AM   #78
Owndotcom
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

some great information in this topic, great posts and great Q's / A's.

thanks for all the help
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Old 04-24-2009, 07:54 PM   #79
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

Is it typical for the staker to have your account password?
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Old 04-24-2009, 08:18 PM   #80
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

How much is a lot of makeup? Just out of curiousity.
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Old 04-24-2009, 08:18 PM   #81
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rushton14 View Post
Is it typical for the staker to have your account password?
NO
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Old 04-24-2009, 08:21 PM   #82
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rushton14 View Post
Is it typical for the staker to have your account password?
typically no, but it's not totally out of the ordinary
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Old 04-27-2009, 12:40 PM   #83
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

Quote:
Originally Posted by donkontilt4u View Post
How much is a lot of makeup? Just out of curiousity.
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:58 AM   #84
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

great post thanks. you may be a prop bet fish but you don't seem to be a staking fish!
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Old 05-15-2009, 01:36 PM   #85
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

Quote:
Originally Posted by toocrispy View Post
What do you do when your backee deviates from the plan? What kind of recourse should you take?

For example, I back a friend at a live game (1/2 and sometimes 2/5) and we were sitting at a particular table with a couple huge calling stations, guys that will call three barrels to the river with a pair of 4s. My backee and I had discussed our (i was also sitting) basic strategy to only fire when we have a good hand and not to try to bluff this particular table too much (specifically this one guy).

I see my backee's hole cards but he doesn't know this. He has 6d8d and raises on the button. Calling station limp/calls. Flop comes J52 rainbow, and station $12 (into a $20 pot). Backee raises to $30. Station shipps for $20 on top ($50 total) and my backee folds. I ask him wtf he was doing and he said he folded mid pair or some ****. I keep probing and he gets really defensive about his play. I finally told him that i saw his hole cards and threatened to never stake him again if he lied to me about some bull**** like that again.

What should I do about a backee that likes do deviate from basic strategy that we have laid out?

wtf

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Old 05-15-2009, 06:34 PM   #86
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

Hypothetical question

Lets say I decide to stake a friend for 50plo and i give him $1000 to start. After 15k hands his roll is down to $600 and we mutually decide to end the stake. The agreement was 50/50 w/ makeup. So does he now owe me $400 or $200? I am a bit confused by "makeup"
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Old 05-15-2009, 07:07 PM   #87
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

if you stop the deal he owes you nothing.
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Old 05-15-2009, 07:08 PM   #88
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rushton14 View Post
Is it typical for the staker to have your account password?
Quote:
Originally Posted by donkontilt4u View Post
NO
lol, i love how you are so sure its not standard that a backer has a horses PW or not
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Old 05-20-2009, 10:39 PM   #89
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

What should a horse do if his staker has been ignoring him for 10 days and wont respond to any messages? lol

Yes I know its weird ^_-
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Old 05-24-2009, 07:51 PM   #90
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

well, what is your arrangement? how often do you usually split up? are you trying to get more $ to stay in action? do you have his rl life contact info?
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Old 06-14-2009, 02:52 PM   #91
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

Great post.

Just wondering if anyone has considered combining staking and affiliating? Off the top of my head, it seems like a natural fit - you get a little extra juice plus improved ability to track the stakee's play.

Maybe there are some glaring ethical issues I'm missing though, or maybe the sites wouldn't take kindly to affliate-player transfers?
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Old 06-15-2009, 09:18 AM   #92
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

What are people's thoughts/experiences with some of the staking/backing sites out there? Some that I've found are:

staking.parttimepoker.com
pokerstaking.com
stakeashark.com
getastake.com
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Old 07-06-2009, 04:37 PM   #93
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

What's a normal length for a stake ?

Say a month or a few months depending on volume, # of hands, 300% of stake back etc ?

Also, if you're coaching them during a stake, then I would assume the stake goes on longer so you get your money worth?
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Old 07-09-2009, 02:24 AM   #94
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

I just had my Poker Stars account frozen for giving my password to my staker. The email they sent me stated they'll be cracking down on this from now on.
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Old 07-09-2009, 11:24 PM   #95
Gonzirra
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

Quote:
Originally Posted by Houserocker View Post
I just had my Poker Stars account frozen for giving my password to my staker. The email they sent me stated they'll be cracking down on this from now on.
I have a feeling there's a bit more to this story... what was the problem exactly? Paste email please.
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Old 07-10-2009, 01:30 AM   #96
Houserocker
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonso View Post
I have a feeling there's a bit more to this story... what was the problem exactly? Paste email please.
Hello Christopher,

Thank you very much for your e-mail and for your explanation. Please note
that PokerStars does not endorse nor support staking deals although we
will not do anything to stop them however this will be as long as our
rules are followed. Sadly for you, the sharing your password with your
staker part goes against the points 5.2 and 9.3 of our Terms of Service
and therefore it cannot be permitted.

We do not have a problem with you having a staking deal however we do have
a problem with him having access to your account as this is will not be
permitted.

We have had this very same conversation with backers and although we
understand their position we will not become supportive of this practice
{sharing access to accounts}.

Other stakers have started to work with Screen Shots but again, these can
be forged so, stakers will need to start trusting their stakees or they
will have to eventually start looking to invest their money in other
businesses if they are not willing to take the risk that giving money to
someone else without having access to his account implies.

This is a serious matter. Before moving on with the process we would like
to ask you to please respond to this e-mail letting us know if you are
willing to continue playing with us without allowing third parties of any
kind into your account. Should your response be positive, we will continue
with the process that will lead to the full reinstatement of your account.

Should you have any further questions or comments; please do not hesitate
to contact us.


Regards,

WilbertS
PokerStars Game Security &
Multiple Accounts Specialist
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Old 07-23-2009, 06:27 AM   #97
erzor
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

hey!

I made a stake deal with my poker-buddy. I was winning nl50 fullring player and after terrible downswing at nl100 i withdrawed everything and ejoyed 1 month of travel in Asia. good times good deal. will never regret

then after a couple of months i decided i want to grind again. didn't want to invest my own money (I never did) but could still play micro nl10 limits which i just couldn't. you can imagine how you feel grinding for 10 bucks when you once grinded much higher.

I then made a deal to play nl50 with staked money. 50:50, no investment on my side. indefinite time/hand sample - we can both cancel the deal whenever we want.
now after arround 40k hands my BR is 3.3k.
The question is when to cancel this deal?
Right now i'm successfully winning nl100 6-max. If I start on my own I have BR of 1150$ which is enough for nl50.

What would you do?
Is there any reasonable alternative stake deal I could offer to my staker?

Thanks for comments!
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Old 07-23-2009, 07:36 AM   #98
Zima421
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

i would grind a little more and get a bit more of a cushion for 50nl 6m.

maybe get to around 1500 and than go on your own.

(dont burn bridges though)
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Old 08-03-2009, 11:25 PM   #99
Gonzirra
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

This message will be appearing in a number of threads over the next week or two to make posters aware (as is not directed at anyone in particular).


New Staking Forum Policy
New Staking Forum Policy
New Staking Forum Policy






This also goes for live stakees who wish to receive funds via poker site transfer.

Thanks
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Old 08-25-2009, 11:06 AM   #100
spacemanE
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Re: ***A Guide to Staking Players for Cash Games***

Since nothing in this thread or any of the other seem to discuss it, what are the usual terms of a staking agreement? If there are a couple different ways, what are they? Assume it's a 1/2 NL game, should there be a max the backer can receive? Would a $200 stake with 50/50 loss makeup and 25% win at max $200 seem about right?

None of the stake threads go into any detail of the agreement so I'm curious to hear the different variations, both in long-term staking and a one off.
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