Hello,

I am writing to you today about Max Sanders (1mtm91 on PS/FTP, 1mtm91 on two plus two, 1mtm91 on part time poker, no1yidmax on surferspoker). I will try to be as brief as possible in this post. There are also cliff notes at the end. The purpose of this post is to illustrate that Max Sanders is a thief and a very shady, bad horse.



I run a stable with two friends (Simplicity8 and nineallday00). We began staking Max on June 15th, 2010. He agreed to a contract where he was to play $12 180mans and $6.50 45mans on PS. Once he showed profit he would be allowed to begin playing MTTs. I can provide the full contract to anyone interested. Part of the contract he agreed to reads:

And:

The stake was to last 16,000 games or 8 months (whichever came last). Thus, the contract would likely end in the early months of 2011. The bolded statements above mean that he must play the games we negotiated for 16,000 games of 8 months and in this time period no one else would be allowed to receive a share of his profits.

Any breach of this agreement would come at a cost of lost equity and money on our behalf. Max demonstrated his understanding of this contract when he asked us for permission to play some games on FTP on July 15, 2010. We allowed him to play $13 90mans on FTP.



About a week later, Max requested that he be moved back onto PS and we allowed it. Only a few days later, on July 28, 2010 Max puts up a BAP on surferspoker.com and sells off action in games on FTP (link: http://surferspoker.com/showthread.php?t=57913).

This BAP violates our agreement because we had exclusive rights to his play until his stake was done. He had agreed to this and was consciously aware of the implications but disregarded this and put up a BAP.

He makes $1276.08 profit on this BAP, which took place in a period where we still had exclusives rights to his action yet splits the money between himself and the investors (link for the rail, post #29 is where he posts the profit: http://surferspoker.com/showthread.php?t=57984). This $1276.08 profit should have split with the investors of the BAP as well as with us at the time this occured. Max's BAP was 50/50 and we also were backing Max at 50/50 so it would have been a fair resolution to give 50% of the profits to the surfers investors and the remaining 50% to us, but instead Max cashed out our equity for himself.

To sum this section up, Max agreed that we were the only people who could have his action until he had finished his stake with us. During this BAP, his stake with us was still in progress. This violates our agreement. We had full rights to his action and had agreed that no one else was to have rights to his action, yet Max double booked his action and never paid us for our share. This is called stealing. In addition, he never informed any of us about this BAP; he simply went behind our backs and broke our agreement.

The dictionary defines a thief as “a person who steals, especially secretly or without open force”.


On Thursday, August 5 2010 when we discovered this BAP, Simplicity8 (one of my staking partners) contacted Max about his breach of our agreement:


This conversation is important because Max acknowledges a few things:
-He didn’t realize the magnitude of the commitment he agreed to. This displays poor judgment and foresight.
-He alludes to being aware that he was wrong for putting up that BAP.
-And most importantly, he acknowledges it is a huge violation.



Less than two weeks later on August 17, 2010, Max puts up yet another BAP on surferspoker.com (link: http://surferspoker.com/showthread.php?t=59364).

After twice acknowledging that he could not sell off action to other investors, Max does so regardless. In addition, we had moved him up to $26 90mans and allowed him to play some smaller MTTs as well as two separate FTOPS events with >$200 buy-ins. This goes to show that we were flexible with him and allowed him to take shots under the stake even though there was no such mention of this in the original contract. Even so, Max disrespected us and our attempts to keep him happy.

That very day, Simplicity8 confronted him again about the issue:

From his defensive and childish tone, we grew concerned about the safety of our money in his account. By this time we had already labeled him a problematic stake, so we asked him to buy 30% of his makeup and we would end the stake.

We did this for two main reasons:

-Max was on a downswing, yet he wanted to move up to higher games. This is a very illogical thing to do, so we became wary of his state of mind and his profitability in games.
-He had already gone behind our backs twice so we wanted to cut our losses and get our money back.


This is part of a conversation between Simplicity8 and Max a few minutes before Simplicity and I decided to let him buy his makeup at 35%:

(The first sentence when Simplicity8 says “you actually played it” is referring to the BAP)


Max says something that is very startling: “I didn’t realize how closely the agreement would be kept”. I cannot describe the lunacy of this statement. When you make an agreement you are expected to uphold your end of it; if you don’t you have broken your agreement. When you break an agreement involving money, especially thousands of dollars, you are, at the very least, a scammer, if not a deliberate thief.



In all, Max Sanders has demonstrated his lack of credibility when involved in agreements. He went behind our backs on numerous occasions. He robbed us of equity. He broke a simple agreement multiple times. In addition, we found him to be such a menace that we got as much of our money back from the situation as quickly as possible in fear that he may steal the rest of our money.

Max Sanders is an immature and irresponsible person. I strongly advise never investing a single penny in Max as he has displayed the propensity to steal and partake in shady activity. If you are considering investing in one of Max’s BAPs or backing him, I urge you to carefully read this post and contemplate the person you are about to give your money to.

If you are interested in any of Max’s information, the full contract or any other AIM questions please feel free to post in this thread or PM me.

I can only hope that this post will prevent others from wasting their time and money on Max Sanders.


Best regards.


Cliffs:

-Max Sanders, a.k.a. 1mtm91 on PS/FTP/two plus two, no1yidmax on surferspoker.com is a thief.
-Agrees to a contract where he cannot run any other stakes.
-Runs a BAP anyways, profits $1.3k, pockets the profit.
-We confront him, he apologizes, does not return money.
-Runs a second BAP.
-We let him buy out his makeup to recover whatever equity we could salvage and end the whole ordeal.
-Do not stake/invest in Max Sanders.

thanks for taking the time to write this all out.

interesting!.. negative feedback ;D..

Yeah thanks a lot for taking the time to write this up. He recently contacted me earlier today and I think he's been contacting others on the forums about a new staking deal.

Wow, that's ridiculous gangip.

Fwiw guys, this is the first contract I have entered into, I made a big mistake by putting up another BAP, a big downswing ****ed w/ my head and I needed to play something different, and although Peter and Mike were great, I am not a theif, I offered to buy the Makeup so as to end this deal on the best terms possibly, and I was told that it would be ended on good terms, and now this bitchy post being made makes me want to vomit tbh.

I broke the agreement, never stole any money, and even after buying the 2k MU for 35% (NOT 30) I was in total profit for these guys.

I believe this has been blown insanely hugely out of proportion.

And Ill EDIT in this :

If it make this thread get closed and my reputation in tact, as I am honestly not a theif guys, I will buy the equity for the lost $1300 off of you guys, but the reason I bought the MU at the price I did was because simplicity understands I was having a hard time IRL, so it will have to be at a % of what would be the $650 I withdrew.

Tbh all, this has been blown huglely out of proportion.

To make a couple of points clear

This was the first Major staking agreement I've entered into.

I think there is a clear difference between stealing money and selling equity elsewhere, and the time I didn't realise how detrimental it would be, and as above I am looking for a financial solution to this lost equity, but to put it in words again I never stole anything and I am not a danger in terms of theft, I just made a mistake in terms of the agreement, which I have of course learned from, and I will not be deviating from any agreements in future, but this as I said before has been blown hugely out of proportion.

you won't be deviating from any agreements anymore because you got called out for being a low life and no one will ever stake you again

What am I supposed to say to this, I'm no thief and no low life, this has like I have said been blown out of proportion.

You were in an exclusivity agreement, it's the same thing as a NBA player signing his contract and then switching jerseys in the middle of the game. The money in your account during a stake is not your money, none of it. NOT A PENNY. Not only that, but you used their money in violation of your exclusivity agreement and profited from it without paying them any portion of it. That is stealing.

If I give you $10 to go buy me lottery tickets, and you scratch it off, win + pocket all the money, did you steal from me? It's that cut and dry.

You also backed out of a long agreement with backers who you've admitted were great, even while you're stealing from them. Not only that, but you haven't even admitting complete wrongdoing and are denying your theft. If you want to try and salvage your reputation in any way shape or form you need to work with your former stakers and figure out what they feel is adequate compensation for your inability to handle this situation like an adult.

Saying you won't deviate from an agreement is stupid, because this entire thread shows that you knowingly deviated from an agreement, knowingly stole, and did it all while feeling morally justifiable because you fell on hard times. I'd also like to know what you think is blown out of proportion. While I don't think you meant to steal, or be shady/****ty about the situation, that's what happened and you need to own up to it.

I will admit I was wrong, I have posted saying I will try and sort out the lost equity, but I will not admit to being a thief, for I am not one.

So you deny my fake situations are representative of your situation? You think you have 2 separate rolls during a stake, theirs and yours? Especially when you have an exclusivity agreement/contract with them that you knowingly violated several times? Why should anyone trust you when you don't take responsibility for your actions? If you're still denying that you stole, then clearly you're not ready for a stake, and I don't think someone like you ever will be.

don't u owe them 25% of the 1300 you won tho? u agreed to exclusivity (sp?) so i think they are sposed to get half of whatever you pocketed

and lol at agreeing to 8 months exlusive, sounds like you entered into a bad deal where they could opt out but you couldn't

i prob would have insisted on a clause where at a certain profit line agreement can be terminated by you coz why be tied down for 8 months, you could be rich and able to play on your own by then

this. You should have thought about the agreement before agreeing. Period.

The OP clearly made a huge mistake here, gl in getting it sorted out.

That said, I'm curious if clauses like this are common in staking agreements? With the clause presented in the contract it is clearly wrong to sell action on the side. However, I thought that this occurred fairly frequently when horses wanted to play over the level of their backing agreement (i.e. you are fully backed for MTTs online but sell shares for live action on 2p2).

I just want to clarify that the intention of this post is to inform the community and potential backers of the situation as we believe it is our obligation to do so. Max double booked his action and never paid us the money that was rightfully ours. I'm sure not too many people would be interested in investing in such a person so we decided to save them some time and money.

If, however, Max would like to show us good faith in paying the equity owed to us that would go a long way in rebuilding his reputation.

Great info above,thanx for taking the time.

correction: realize

btw TOUGH FLIP MAX

Let me get this straight. You except people to play only what You say for 8 months and have them give you 50 % of what they win. I would never take a stake like this.Is this standard? Then he play's something you wont "let him" or stake him for,He wins and you want 50 percent of that to. WOW
I know "Max" was totally wrong for not doing what he agreed to do but Your the one that had presented that agreement to him. Are you now going to enslave his Wife and kids to pay off your equity. The human race is doomed because of people like U . Unbelievable

Yeah, it's kind of a **** deal.....regardless though, the horse agreed to it.

Horses need to learn to say no

imo

It was a volume-based cut. If he played >35 hours in a given week he would be given a 70/30 cut. Also, we offered to cut the length of the stake in half once he had realized what an enormous stake it was.

Don't come at me with that "the human race is doomed because of people like you" bull****. We were perfectly flexible. We let him take shots at high stakes MTTs. We let him play plo8 where he doesn't have much of a sample. Furthermore, Max needed to pay tuition so we worked out an option in the contract where he could give up 5% of his cut for a given month and in return we could guarantee him a sum of money that he could use to pay tuition.

And we didn't "expect" him to do these things. We agreed to it. Huge difference. Much like we agreed that he would play certain games on FTP and those are the same games he got staked on SP for. So don't accuse myself or my backing partners of being bad humans, or whatever it is you think of us, without knowing the full story, because, in fact, it's quite the opposite.

You obviously don't realise that the 'correct' spelling of this word depends on your country of origin.

Max has contacted me and we have agreed on a payment plan. He is to pay us the amount we are owed by September 30th. If he completes this, I'll post in this thread.

sigh, dude is obviously dumb and stupid but imo the theif and scammer words being branded around are a bit ott.

Sorry, Op It just came across to me as very one sided but it now sounds like You guys tried to work with him. I know staker's are around for a reason . I'm sure You guy's help some people. Its also a business and you do have to protect your self from dishonest people. My bad and I apologize.

good intentioned but exclusivity is a hard pill to swallow, if you agree to a set amount of games, then that's fine but what if stake uses his FPP's to satty into the sunday million?

i would never agree to that personally, but anyway, the word "thief" is bandied about a little too much ppl in poker go under water from time to time it's the nature of the beast

mad respect for nineallday i've played him b4 and he scares the bejeebus out of me, but some civility would really be nice in the poker world
he owes you the money and will pay so plz don't go slandering before trying to work out a solution, take it from a guy who knows, there are ppl being labeled thieves and scammers who've never done anything like that in their lives