[QUOTE=Bignate904;20331197] I don't feel we owe Kevin's MU to the other guy seeing how he should of never played for the other guy.

QUOTE]

That's the thing-I feel the same way, but obviously towards you

Punish the stakee because he made the mistake of not reading and understanding his contract.

If legendus would have taken this stake on another site and kept the stake money separate, would this have been an issue for you nate?

thess123 is entitled to 100% of the money legendus made for him, as long as he had 100% of the action. I understand there is an accounting issue, which needs to be dealt with first though.

what time was the MTT played, if Thess123 sent him the exact amount like he said just before the tonuney he can show a screen shot of past transactions, which should clear that it was his money

I have trouble believing that Legend is responsible for paying out 60% of his winnings from a tournament that Nate would not have staked him for and did not know he would be playing. He did indeed violate the agreement to not take any other staking offers on Tilt, but it seems to me that it was not done maliciously. Perhaps something amicable can be worked out between the parties to compensate Nate some % of what he thinks he is owed while allowing Legend to keep some of his profit, despite his (honest, imo) mistake.

What cut? The cut Im giving him is very generous. None of his money was used for these tourneys so basically it was a freeroll for him. Honestly u should get 100% of the money and this is really just legendus' fault but none of bignates money was used for the tourneys

Mods the title of this thread should also be changed too. Scammer should not be in the title at all because that was not anyones intentions. Maybe Staking mishap Please read would be a better title

The problem is the screen shots.

I asked him to screen shot me his account as soon as he shipped that tourney. He should of had the winnings from what he won + another cash along with our money. He was about 200$ short. Which means he used our money in games he wasn't backed for. He just happen to get permission from someone else to play these specific tourneys. However if he loses our money it's gone.

The money i felt i deserved. But yest, nate was essentially freerolling him, but he still has hist contract....

Obviously if there's money unaccounted for than something else may be going on here, but his BR should be what you guys were expecting + his net profit from his recent cash. If that's what he has for a roll right now, I understand that he violated the terms of the contract, but he's certainly not scamming anyone and I would argue he's not even really ripping anybody off.

I meant for Thess123 to show a screen shot of him sending the money to him, he said ITT he sent it just before the tourney started, so as long as he can prove that I dont see the problem. As for the money his account not adding up, that could be a number of things, and not necessarily going for the buy in of that tourney he won.

I understand all the different feelings we have with this situation. I would just like to talk it over with you Nate, and if necesarry with thess aswell. Im willing to get to a good agreement for you, but I just don't like the fact that this is being blown up.

Can't we just get some time to talk about it? Instead of bringing everybody in and blowing this up. Private convo would be the best I'd think.

I'd like to jump back in because the tone of the discussion is changing. We- me and nate- do not believe that the player was trying to intentionally scam, but he did several things that at best were serious mistakes and at worst an attempt to cover up mishandling funds.

We can address each point systematically, but there is a very real possibility that the discussion would quickly dissolve into an argument; nobody wins in that scenario.

Broad points- and I think that we have agreement to these points among both backing groups:
player was backed by our group on July 8, 2010
player sought additional backing post 7/8/10- this is a violation of our agreement
player did not inform second backing group of prior agreement
player co-mingled funds given by backers
each backing group had MU
player is now profitable

How should each group be made whole? We suggested in post #6 that we would try to work out this problem in a reasonable fashion. We will agree to a significantly lowered profit split and waive our agreement with player. We did not take a wait and see attitude toward the player. During the tournament last night we contacted him, mods at 2+2 and the second backer. We have tried to see the problem from Thess123's point of view and I believe that our proposed solution is reasonable to both backers.

My original post in this thread started like this:

This is still true because there are two issues flying about. As I (and many others have) said, I don't think legendus intended to scam by playing for a 2nd backer. Regardless we need to solve the accounting discrepancy before I change the title.

Nate -- you're saying that he had $1199 in a screenshot immediately following his cash in the HU, and that this is not enough money, primarily because your stake $ is missing in this amount and wtf did he do with it then. This is a fair question.

I want to know how much you staked him for, how much he was in makeup for you. Then I want Legundus to confirm these numbers, and explain where the missing funds are.

We also need to know exactly how much Thess sent him on FTP and what MTTs he played, and what the results were for those.

Everyone keeps saying they have screenshots. Well start posting them. Nate, show the original xfer going to Legundus. Thess, you do the same. Legundus, take a screenshot of your tournament history.

Let's do that now so we can solve the first problem please.

If thess can provide a screenshot that he sent all the funds(exact amount) for the tourneys legendus was playing that day then I dont see how it is comingled funds. Yes he violated the contract but he did not play with any of your money. If the acct didnt add up prior to thess sending funds well thats his fault and thess should not be penalized for it.

Legendus- mods asked that we ask the community for help. I think that we can take the rest of the conversation private.

Thess123 did nothing wrong, he is entitled to whatever profits he agreed with stakee and any discussion about how much is owed to nate doesn't really need to involve him. If nate feels he is owed some amount of that win it doesn't mean thess should lose out. If legundus sold 110% of himself he should pay out 110% of the winnings.

Personally i don't think nate is owed anything more than whatever legundus's current makeup is, though i think he's well within his rights to terminate the staking agreement and ask for the makeup to be paid back as legundus clearly violated the contract.

I indeed do want you guys to know that thess has handled 100% fair. Ive got the screen which shows he has sended me the money before the tourneys started.

And Obeyan, I understand that it would be a good thing if the community helped. From this point on I think its just important to talk this over fair and square, in private.

If the community was asked for help it should be resolved in the community. I think wanting to take it private is only as a result of this thread favoring the opinion of one side more than the other

This. We'll be discussing it in the mod forum as well - we have a thread there just for Marketplace issues.

The best solution will be one you can all agree on, and it probably won't make anyone 100% happy.

I guess the one thing I'd like to know is if this "100% of all action for one year" kind of thing is common and reasonable?

agreed- mods- we've gotten mixed opinion. Can we take the rest of the discussion private? We can supply copies of all docs/transfers, etc to you.

If by in private, you mean amongst all the stakers and the horse, I don't see an issue with it.

Ok, since i am the guy who is new here and I obviously am the one that has made the mistake, Im willing to ''sacrifice''. I know i've done wrong by not telling nate, and violating the contract. Im aware and im sorry, really.

But that doesn't make me a scammer. So here's the deal. Since thess send the full amount to me to play those tourneys, he has his right on 50% + the amount for the buyins. That leaves 50%, and im willing to give you guys 30% of it + The MU I am still owning you.

For some it may seem ridiculous if i would give the % to you, but I just don't want to make a huge deal out of this, and I want us all to be on the right foot again.

So there's an offer Im making, quite fair i'd say.

First off, I didnt say I had a screen shot, but I will copy the amount I sent on Full tilt to him.

cashier@fulltiltpoker.com to me
show details 4:20 PM (21 hours ago)


This is an automated message sent from Full Tilt Poker.

Your Player ID: thess12345
Receiving Player ID: Legendus

Date and Time: 2010-07-18 16:20:53

Transfer Number: 05D015C4
Amount: $170.50 (USD)


Status: PROCESSING

Your player transfer request has been received.
Processing of this transfer request may take between 24-48 hours.

For further assistance, please visit our website at:
http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/transfers.php
or contact cashier@fulltiltpoker.com.

Thank you for playing at Full Tilt Poker

==

He played in these tourneys:
26 double deuce
26 rush 6-max
11 early antes
15 KO Sturbo
26 Freezeout
26 Heads Up
Didnt reg 5rebuy
4$ that i still had

The orignal play was to play in tourneys for $4 more but I didnt ship funds in time, so he played something different than the total I shipped him

on ftp if you go to :

cashier>history>past transaction, it should all be there.

You're right- your mistake doesn't make you a scammer- as I've said all along this was a mistake. I'll PM you.