how does one get the ability to post in the staking section?

Follow the instructions in that thread:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/10...hreads-549708/

There has to be a better way to arrange this. If you are taking that much of his action anyways why not just back him fully in the higher games and take 50% of all winnings?

This is way too complicated.

Regarding your 5-10 exposure, your downside risk is much too high. He could get stuck 3,000 right away in a big, juicy game, and then spew away 5-10,000 of your money while continuing to play on tilt in a high variance game with whales. Now he's in makeup, he continues to play like a total spaz, his makeup with you now escalates to an unrecoverable sum, and he suddenly disappears and doesn't return your phone calls.

If you've never staked someone before, it's probably not a good idea to initiate a long-term deal with some regular unless you know him well outside of the casino and trust him at least 99%.

Instead, structure multiple one-off, no makeup deals for each cash game session using these guidelines as standard:

100% of the loss for 80% of the profit
75% of the loss for 60% of the profit
50% of the loss for 40% of the profit
25% of the loss for 20% of the profit

Allow him to decide how much exposure he's willing to sell-off to maintain his comfort level in the game.

On a side note, I wouldn't consider staking anyone for 10-20 unless they absolutely crushed it at 5-10, because tight-solid players who play in bigger games are often out of their comfort zone and tend to overplay and underplay hands much more frequently. If he's not comfortable losing more than 3,000 at 5-10 in one sitting, he's probably not crushing 5-10. It sounds as though his bankroll is insufficient for 5-10 (less than 50,000). Take advantage of his stubborn refusal to play 5-5; stake him for only 5-10 on a game-by-game basis.

Hello 2+2,

I'm playing 6max Hypers and 18men Sngs on Pokerstars, trying to reach SNE this year. Beside this challenge, i recently started, to grab some stakees for micro-mid stakes SNGs.

Today i recieved a request by a nlo8 player, who wants to be staked for 6max nlo8 hypers. He seems trustworthy and has contact to one of the best nlo8 grinder on those stakes.

His stats so far on the games, he wants to be staked for:
4.311 games
0,39 $ p/game
13,42 $ abi
2,7% roi
1.694 $ profit

He plays 1.5k-2k games per month.

Other nlo8 and nlhe stats seem to be decent. Overall i would say he's not crushing, but he definately beats the stakes.

Now my questions:

How do staking conditions usually look like for 6max hypers? Is it in common to use Makeupdeals? Which number of games makes sense? What's the cut?

Would be really cool if someone can give me an idea, how the staking could look like.

Thanks for your help
regards
Mat

50/50, can't leave in makeup or he owes the makeup to you. You could do a lot of things for the profit split, every x number of games, end of every month, every z$ of profit. Only thing that sucks about staking someone in a game you aren't familiar with is that you won't really know whether he is playing well or not. It will be hard to know if he is ready to move up if things go well and it will be hard to know if he is running bad or playing bad if things don't go well.

I guess this might be the best place to ask rather than creating a new thread;

As a poker player with 5+ year experience I have never been staked, however have recently considered looking at some options to see if anyone would consider staking me & to find out what sort of deals would be available if I wanted to be staked.

I feel I have developed a fairly good understanding of my strengths & weaknesses in poker:

For example I consider myself a strong MTT player, especially in large fields with buy ins anywhere from $1-$50. My results, although nothing incredible do seem to back this up and I have a sample of over 2,000 MTT's with ROI 56% on stars, 76% on tilt
(1,000+ MTT's on each)

I've worked on developing poker skills in many of the usual ways like reading every book available (although mathematics of poker defeated me), watching training vids on cr / bfp etc, reading every thread, well, blog or article I can find, & listening to every podcast.
I have also spent a lot of time thinking about and discussing the game. Mostly NL holdem.

Coaching is also something i spent some time with and received cash game coaching.

Cash games have been my main weakness, and I think this could be the case with some other decent MTTers. I would not be looking for a stake on cash games as my discipline is not strong enough, and although when my A game is out I think i am capable of beating up to 1/2 or maybe 2/4 6-max, I have lost bankrolls over and over again due to tilt, to the point where i excluded my tilt & stars accounts last month and they are both locked until May 2013.

Having listened to some interesting conversation with Sauce on the poker-cast, it got me thinking about staking - He talked about good reasons to stake people, and that there are some players who have solid consistent results at certain games but had issues blowing rolls in different ways, and that these are some of the better types of people to stake, as long as you stake them in the area they have proven consistent results in.

Sauce would not be the right backer for me as he was looking for cash players.
A few years back I talked with guys at the poker farm (http://www.thepokerfarm.com/) but decided not to go with it as it was a bit too far from my home and too much risk / commitment at the time.

However maybe there are backers out there who could be a better match?

My volume is never going to be super high - I work 8am-5pm, have a family and would only really be able to play 2-4 evenings per week in turbo or hyper MTT's.

How do I know if a staking arrangement is right for me?
I'm looking for advice to find out what sort of % i could expect based on the information provided?

What is a fair staking deal?
How would a staking deal work, how committed to makeup would I need to be?
Are there expiring make-up deals like sauce offered available for MTT's?

I'm also interested to know the logistics of how sending / receiving money would work, and if there is any other advice about how to go about finding a backer or if people think it would be better to give up on the idea and build my own bankroll?

Thanks!

Most backers want someone who is going to be able to put in a lot of volume. You would probably have to start at very low stakes to build trust and to be honest it will probably be a waste of time for you. Since you don't depend on poker for income it would most likely be best if you just continue to play on your own roll, continue to work on your game, and fix whatever the problem is with tilt that causes you to blow your rolls in dumb ways. gl.

Thanks for the response. I think I might just quit poker for a while - Having not played for the last few weeks has started to make my head feel very clear.

I am staked and have $10k in my bankroll and I can cashout and profit split whenever I am above $10k, as I have no makeup.

The issue I have is that it is most EV+ for me to check my balance a lot and cashout whenever I am in profit, correct? However this is not good for mental game if I am checking/sweating the bankroll balance a lot.

What is a good way for me to resolve the issue?

So, I've been a winning player clearing > $100k/yr for 9 years now over 3 different games (LHE/NLHE/PLO now) who is looking to leave poker and go back to school due to declining interest in poker and more hostile playing environment with what the sites/regulators are doing these days.

I'd like to cash my roll out for school expenses/living without touching my sizable retirement accounts.

The thing is I'd still like to be able to play on the side maybe 10-12 hours a week to keep some side money coming in. Obviously hard to do this without a roll.

Do you guys think I could get a staking deal pretty easily? At what sort of terms?

Obviously, I'm pretty low risk, but I'm also going to be rather low volume as well. Not sure what the market is like right now. This would be for mostly $1/2-3/6 PLO 6max.

Appreciate opinions as I don't have much experience with this whole staking thing.

Anyone ever heard of a backing deal where the stakee takes more than 50% of the profits ?

Stakee would cover 25% of the buyins himself in this case but he wants 60% of the profits on the other 75% that I'm paying for.

This would be at 50-300$ mtts

I'm looking for a way to keep track of my stakees. So a way to manage different sites, rakeback, transfers etc. Does anyone have a nifty spreadsheet or how do you guys keep track of it?

donkbluff

its attached to p5s

Stake question. We stake person x and sign a contract for sngs which includes coaching for sngs. We talk and then allow him to play cash as well to mix it up because he was getting bored with sngs. We never intended to back him full-time for cash but he had a history of beating the games he wanted to play to mix it up, so we figured why not if it helps his mindset. Without our knowledge, he then goes and gets a stake for the same sng games we were staking him for on a different site and proceeds to win there for a week before we find out what happened. His mindset was since we were letting him play cash he would just play all cash for us on the site we were staking him and all sngs for his other backer. The horse was extremely honest with us exactly what he was doing and honestly didn't see anything wrong with what he was doing. There was no timeframe on the stake and he was up money for us, so he is now trying to just send us our cut, end the stake, and now go with the other guy.

Given that he still had our money, still was under an agreement to play those very same stakes sngs for us, and was getting coaching from us for those same games he was playing staked by someone else, are we entitled to our cut from the profits he made from the other backer? That would kind of open himself up to getting reverse freerolled but the only thing he had to do to avoid that was not seek a 2nd stake without our knowledge for the very same games we're backing him for.

Also I do want to stress this horse clearly did not do this maliciously, and in fact when talking with us he's the one who brought up the fact that on the side of our stake he was doing another stake+coaching deal with another coach. He still doesn't think what he did was wrong, which is why I'm posting this because I'm under the assumption that most will agree with me that getting a 2nd stake for the same games on a different site without first consulting your 1st backer is pretty unethical. We're just not sure how to resolve it or whether we're entitled to a share of the profits he made under his other backer.

We have contacted his other backer he's offline atm but it's currently not clear whether his other backer was aware he was backed by us or not when he signed the horse.

There are a ton of issues with dual stakes. Obviously if they aren't the same game/stake, things can get messy with regards to his concentration/etc. He should definitely tell you that he's looking to get another stake and if he did that behind your back, that's totally out of line.

Yeah the big question is are we entitled to go after some of the profits he made under the other deal (while being staked by us) before we knew about it.

I just sold action to a circuit event, if I win the main event or earn casino championship honors, is it standard for investors' percentages to carry over to the WSOPC National Championship in NOLA? I wasn't sure what the norm is in this situation.

Hey guys. My friend wants to stake me for live 2/5 & 5/10nl, and we were thinking about using sauce123's expiring makeup model . Has anyone ever done this? I'm trying to figure out how he got the extra 6.23% for the backer. If anyone has any statistics knowledge, I'm pretty sure he's doing some sort of variance analysis by constructing a confidence interval given the player's winrate in bb/100, their standard deviation, and desired interval of hands played. You can do the number crunching with an excel spreadsheet like this, but I'm coming up short with how he gets his numbers.

Also I'm probably only going to be playing like 10-20 hours max a week, which is only like 300-600 hands per week. Ideally the interval size would be like every month or something, say every 1200 hands. Does anyone know what the magic formula is for this type of expiring makeup deal? Or if anyone has a suggestion as to what a better staking arrangement might be I'd greatly appreciate your help. Thanks

Would be much much simpler if you just do a standard 50/50 split with makeup. It will also be more difficult with sauce's model to figure out a fair deal I think since you don't have the tracking software to give the stats over meaningful samples.

We have a decent idea of what my winrate would be, and other stats such as standard deviation we would probably just use some average value. The games I'm playing in are softsoft and I consider myself a huge favourite in them. I'll also be tracking my sessions on my phone so I'm sure we can get a rough estimate of my winrate from that once I play for a few months..

Still think a normal deal structure would be easier. If he is confident you are a big favorite and wants to give a bigger % it doesn't have to be 50/50. If the games are that soft and if you are putting in decent hours then makeup really shouldn't be a big issue since the variance won't be too bad with a high winrate. If there is another reason you guys wanna try the sauce way you can prolly figure something out, I just personally don't see much of a point. Are you worried because the 5/10 doesn't run regularly enough and you may run bad there and get in a hole and then have to grind it back at mostly 2/5?

Yeah you have a point with the variance not being that bad. No not so worried about the change in stakes. The main appeal of the expiring makeup is that I'll never be in the hole and thus always eager to grind and play my A game. It's kind of a mission to the casino (1.5 hour bus ride each way) so if I know that I'm only profiting every session then that's more appealing. I'd rather sacrifice a %age of my profit and never be in makeup rather than know that I'm in makeup and have to grind it out.

You would only have the opportunity to profit every session if the makeup expired every session though. And for that to happen and be a fair deal in the expiring makeup deal then im assuming your % that you get would be really really low. And even if it expired at the end of each month I still think your likely % you are going to get is going to be pretty low just due to the fact that even though your winrate is higher live than online you are just not going to be getting enough hands in. If you think you guys have the data to do the calcs though you could always just determine the fair % in the expiring makeup model and see if you would truly rather take that % than 50%+ with a normal makeup model. I could definitely be wrong but just based off my limited awareness of sauce's model I'm guessing your fair % on a monthly expiring deal is <10% and could likely be much lower because of the very low number of hands you will play each month. Personally I'd prefer a normal makeup deal.

Yea I agree it'll probably be really low if we do the calcs. Whatever I'm gonna crush these games anyways. Thanks for your advice!