First, I apologize for my comments about spelling. To be a bit more accurate, the things that actually got under my skin were the unwillingness to put out the effort to look for an answer, and the use of abbreviations more appropriate when texting. Your post happened to be the one to which I responded after having to deal with several others elsewhere, which were actually much worse. I am sorry that my frustration splashed onto you.

I applaud that you are making the effort and encourage you to continue.

Specifically as to spelling, most web browsers either have integrated spell-check capability, or it is available as a free add-on. I am not sure what, specifically, you are looking for here. You appear to be looking for situations almost exactly like this which have been acted upon within this community. While I understand that desire, it is not necessary.

Staking arrangements are contracts which, usually, form a partnership between the backer and the stakee. From a legal sense they are handled just like any other contract. There is nothing dramatic that differentiates staking arrangements from any other contract. There are many things which go into the interpretation of a contract when the situation gets murky. The most appropriate advice that I can provide is that you seek competent legal council (if the monetary amount is sufficient, and you feel significantly strongly). However, the situation may be more appropriately resolved by having both the backer and stakee sit down, discuss, and reach a mutually agreeable resolution to this disagreement.

As to the specifics: Unless stated otherwise, tournaments are almost always considered individual events and are not grouped into sessions, or days. I would also point out that the terms you use to describe the situation argue that you actually view each tournament win as separate, and not grouped as a session, or day. Specifically, you state that the contracts refers to a "win" and then you describe two "wins" which one party wants to group as one "win" merely because the wins happen to be close together in time. Without seeing the actual contract and any written discussion between the parties that occurred at the time the contract was negotiated, my opinion would be that the view that the two wins should be grouped as one is unfounded (i.e. wrong). In other words, that the first win belongs entirely in phase 2 (wrt. profit split) and the second win is in phase 3.

people tried explaining what make up is on first page but i just got more confused.

for example, what does it mean in this case?

Makeup is the term used to describe the accumulated losses in a staking arrangement in which past buyins must be recouped before profits are split.

In the case quoted the profits from a win are split 55% to stakee and 45% to staker AFTER previous losses * (which had been paid for by the staker) are deducted and credited to the staker.

The staker is also offering to possibly negotiate a larger cut (more than 55%) for the stakee if he has a big score (final table).


*aka makeup

thanks, rainbow. but when do I have to pay for the make up? only after i have some profit playing other tournaments? will i only have to pay if i'm staked by the same guy again? or do i have to pay one way or another?

It's not a debt. If the stake at a loss you play until it's in profit before any chop can be made.

For example:

Day 1 you lose $100, on the 2nd you win $500.

Your cut is $200 because you had $100 worth of makeup to clear.

Hello, this is my first post on the site and had a question about a staking situation I am in. My buddy moved down to AZ 3 months ago and lives with me. We both play, primarily 2/3 NL and live MTTs. Throughout the 3 months, he is in for ~3k in MU to me. This includes primarily buyins, but also an electric bill and a month of rent. Yesterday, he spiked a live MTT for $6500. When factoring payouts and MU, he thinks that we should take out the 3k in MU right away and chop the remaining $3500. Having kept detailed records of everything he is in debt for, I disagree, thinking that we should only take out 2k for MU (about the amount of buyins) and leave the remaining $1000 he owes me from non-poker expenses up to him to payout. I think we should be chopping 4500 and he would still owe me $1000, but he thinks we should just be chopping $3500 and be even. I see this as myself paying twice for rent/utilities/non-poker expenses. Can somebody please advise as to the proper way to figure this out. Thank you very much

yeah, i understand that. but what if i lose $100 the first day, he decides to stake me again so i can pay what i owed him and then i lose again?
it's up to him to decide if it's time to stop and handle the losses or i still have to play as long as he wants me to pay the make ups back?

Staking is rarely done on a day by day basis. I just put it that way to make it easier to understand. Typically you're playing indefinitely or for a set amount of games/time.

In your example if you agreed to a one day deal then you can walk if not then yeah you should keep grinding till profit.

Need advice...

I have a live cash game ($5/10 nlhe) backer at my local casino. He is also a supervisor at my job and has always been a very pleasant person, never once expressing anger, annoyance, or disapproval. He is a consistent winner in the $5/10NL at my local casino. He has played poker for 20+ years and is deeply familiar with it.

To keep it short, I'll just say this: My backer has never sweated me and I am still constantly amazed that he backs me without at least watching how I play for a session. We talk poker and such, but not enough for him to accurately determine my capabilities. We've played only once together and only for a few hours. He has probably seen me win frequently at the $1/2 and $2/3 NLHE games, but $5/10 is a different game and he knows this.

Needless to say, this is an incredible opportunity for me as a person. I get to play in a game that is WAY outside my bankroll. I've had wins that were bigger than my paycheck with no risk involved.

So far he has backed me in any 5/10nl game I've wanted to play. Literally I could say, "Hey can I play in that game?" and he would put me in, even if half the table were regulars. If he finished a session and saw me around, he would ask if I wanted to sit in the game he just left. This 5/10 game isnt super hard, but I am still surprised by the freedom I've been given in game selection (aka infinite freedom).

We agreed to split profits 50/50. When I was -$2000 I had a small win and received a 40/60 split. Now, after my sixth session with this backer, I am currently -$4200 with him. (I usually buy-in for $2k btw.) So my question is - what is a standard fair profit split at this point? Given the trust and freedom this backer has given me, would it be a crazy idea to do a 0/100 split until I makeup my losses?

Any advice or words of wisdom would be great... this is my first backing/staking experience and I want to make the most of it.

He gets 100% until you're even, anything else is him being generous.

Sup everyone i got a quick question.

I am being currently staked for a MTT package (1000$ avg BI ~5$ SB Deal 75(him)/25(me) )

My question is this i got a decent ITM Rate 16% lifetime (18% for this staking ~150games) but im having problems to assess my ROI due to small SS 600+ games maybe.

Is My Cut justified, because i was planning to get restaked for a little more this time 2000$ meaning more games(same guy), less variance and i was thinking if a better cut is appropriate ? (i was thinking 70/30 or 65/35) The staker and me r cool, good communication, no risks of scamming and i could easily see me doing this longterm .

Please let me know what u think is a good Deal and/or what is a fair Deal or what is standart ?

thx in advance

Sorry if this has already been covered.

I was backed for online/live, and will be relocating to play online soon. I have around 6k makeup and am grinding on Merge til I move to reduce that figure even further. My backer and I agreed to give me the rakeback/bonuses til I've cleared makeup so I can have some sort of income, but Im wondering if I should be requesting that my relocation costs (airfare, cab ride, general moving costs etc) should be deducted from my makeup? We have a good relationship and I think I want to playing under the stake even after clearing the makeup. My relocation costs should be under $1k.

I'm not out to nickle and dime for every penny I can get; I just want to get what is fair so I have the best chance at succeeding and subsequently making money for both of us for the forseeable future.

I'm pathetic and regularly get banned for begging on 2+2, will you please ban me again?


Pokerstars (locked) and Party sn: EddyBoss1

Mod note: why, since you asked nicely, yes I will. Happy to help.

Hey,
My friend and I had a staking question. With online poker gone, we’ve both started playing live a little more often. Since the games are slightly bigger than what we play online, and neither of us puts in that many hands, we decided to take half of each other’s action in all games. If I win $500, I give him $250, if I lose $500, he pays me $250. We split all jackpots evenly. The exception is that you have a frequent player card where you get $1 back for every hour of tracked play. We’ve decided that this money shouldn't be divided since you get slightly better deals if you use the card on food at the casino, and it didn’t make sense for us to pay for each other’s meals.

Anyways, the casino is having their monthly free roll tournament where you get a certain number of chips based on the amount of time you’ve played over the last month. Neither of us has ever gone to the freeroll tournament before, but I figured I’d go and give it a try this weekend. My friend started law school in late September and thus hasn’t played much at all the past month. Our question is how we should divide up any tournament winnings? On the one hand, by taking half of my action, he’s been paying the rake that goes towards the prize pool. Of course, If I just decided to not play the tournament, as has been the custom in the past, he’d be no worse off than if I did play and kept all of my winnings. We’re unsure of what’s the best way to divide up any winnings from the tournament.

So I have a friend of a friend whom I have not met, only talked to on the phone, and he is willing to buy my action for a 1:1 equity stake in 1/2NLH. The guy grinds 5/10NL and 10/20NL in the casinos around for a living. He does the same equity stake for my two friends that play often and tend to make money for him and themselves. He said he'll put up half and I put up half. If i win, I keep half. If I lose, I pay back half. Simple enough... MY QUESTION IS, because I don't really have a bankroll right now, would putting up 60% or more would be a better idea??? That way if I lose, I don't have to pay back as much?? I don't think that the guy would give me more than 1:1 mainly because he doesn't do that with his friends that have been playing for him for months, and I don't even know him. I believe I am a good enough player to beat the game as long as I play more. The problem is that I've had bankroll issues due to bills and have been unable to play so my variance is super high. I'm not very knowledgeable in stakes and buying action so if someone is more familiar with this sort of deal, please help me out. Keep in mind that I don't know the guy that well. I want this deal to be fair to us both.

Thank you for your help.

I have a small stable that is there mainly for the sweat.

One of my friends wants to buy in to the stable.

The team is doing well but most of the equity is in makeup.

Any suggestions on how to put a value on a backing business?

The team is about a year old so it is the perfect time to calculate a value.

Since makeup sells at 50% give or take would it be makeup x 50% x multiplier+ cash on hand?

I can’t just say hey we have xxx in cash and xxx in makeup and you can buy 10% for xxx since if the team needs a reload I would be liable for the reload.

I was thinking makeup x 50% x 5 + cash = value.

Then the other problem is what happens if Tilt pays? I guess the best way to approach that is he doesn't stand to gain or lose, that money is just mine if it comes back.

Also I have players who are on hold until/if online comes back. Would you put a value on that makeup, it obviously can't be 50% but if they want that action if it comes back there has to be some value right?

Bump

Hello all,

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I'm looking a backer who can invest $50k in online tournaments. I want to build that bankroll up to $1M within 4 months. I'm going to play Sunday Millions week by week. After i win two Sunday Million tournaments, i will change to play Ring game head up.
If you are interesting in my plan you can contact me via Skype: oneme1w or phone: 84943110147. believe in me, i will be the next champion of WSOP main event next year.
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Thanks and best regards.

You are a thief who stole money from PTP, you can invest your own time in paying back the money here http://forum.parttimepoker.com/repor...-dns-gear.html and here http://forum.parttimepoker.com/repor...autionary.html or getting banned on 2+2.

hey, I would appreciate if anyone can give me some advice in this situation. I had a 3 month staking deal which started in july with a guy who is well-known in another poker forum. I haven't met him IRL before but I know who he is and where he lives etc. Anyway, I gave him a $2000 bank roll to start with and made clear which stakes he could play and so on, he was supposed to withdraw once every month and then we would split 60-40 to him, standard make up deal. First month he won $1900 and gave me my share, I allowed him to move up in stakes and play one level higher for the month after. He won around $5000 that month and when he was supposed to send me my share he disappeared and I had not heard from him until last week when a friend of mine who knows him finally managed to convince him to have a meeting with me.

He told me he cashed out all the money because he had "personal problems" and then cashed in the money on another poker client and lost every dollar. He sent $300 to me yesterday, he told me thats every money he had left and he thinks we are even now. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do now, the stake deal was only for that particular poker client and when he decided to withdraw the money and lost in on another network he broke our deal, and I have not got any evidence if its actually true that he has lost all the money, he gives me no graphs from hold'em manager. So, he has cashed out and won $6900, that is $8900 with my bank roll, and from that money he has sent 760+300= $1060 back to me.

anyone has any advice bout what I should do in this situation?

How does makeup work when there are different cuts for different game types?
Say somebody has a 60-40 cut for SNGs and a 50-50 cut for MTTs, what happens if they win at SNGs, yet lose at MTTs in a profit sharing month, but still finish up?
E.g. They win 1000 at SNGs and lose 400 at MTTs. Does this work out as 600 from SNGs - 400 makeup from MTTs for a 200 profit (seems wrong because that's 33.33% of the difference). Or is it 600 - 200 for 400 profit and no makeup the next month? Or do you take off the MTT makeup before calculating the overall profit? E.g. (1000-400)*0.6=360?
I always thought it was option number 2 but I just thought I'd check with somebody with experience staking people with differing cuts depending on game type.
Hope somebody can help.
Thanks,
Dave.

A question for the forum:

Myself and a few friends run a staking group, and recently have come upon an issue with a player we are staking. The player in question was a friend/trusted reg who came to an agreement post BF (around mid may, 2011) of 50K hands at PLO cash HU/6m on Merge. He wouldn't have needed backing if it weren't for the fact that he was an FTP who couldn't relocate outside the US. The player consistently complained about lack of game volume on the network, and we didn't see a need to bother him about it, as we generally trusted he would eventually put in the hands. The player rarely updated us on his progress, and to the best of our knowledge was around b/e for the stake (we had given him 3000USD). In the last week of Sept., 3 1/2 months after beginning the stake, he mentioned to us that he was busto after having played about 28k hands. When mentioning this to us, this was the exact conversation (via skype):
US: Hey man, cna I get an update from you on the stake. Hands played/Profit or loss/RB? How much longer do you expect before your done?
[10/23/2011 12:42:08 PM] PLAYER IN QUESTION: its a crawl w/ 2 or 3 tables at a time -2k +rb, ~30k hands---could use a refill if you guys want to---ill have like 2 or 3 days a week i can play, find some more time

He mentions here that he is down 2k before receiving rakeback. What he fails to tell us is that he "accidentally" withdrew 900$ of our money. A week or so later, he tells us his account is busted. Since he has played such low volume and seemed generally disinterested in the stake, none of us rushed to reload his account.
I decided after not hearing from him for about 3 weeks to talk to him today to see if he wanted a reload to finish up the stake. He tells me that he would like to continue and get a reload, and then he mentions that he accidentally withdrew 900$. I told him to go ahead and redeposit the 900$ and continue the stake, and that I could send him more money need be. However, without every consulting us, he had apparently deposited 400$ of his own money two weeks ago and had gone on to win 800$ or so. He claims that in the conversation above where he said "i could use a reload," that that was enough to justify going off on his own since we were technically aware that his account was busted. He never, NOT ONCE, asked us at any other point and time about receiving a reload; he also never mentioned to us that he was going to go ahead and deposit his own money and play because we had not given him a reload. Myself and the other members of my group are available essentially 24/7, and there is no excuse that he couldn't have just asked us - and he doesn't argue the fact that he never tried. It seems very obvious to us that he is in the wrong, but he is insisting that we didn't have a contract stating that we would have his action when he had deposited. Furthermore, assuming he was aware of the fact that he "accidentally" withdrew our money - which based on the way he is treating this situation, I am assuming was no accident - isn't any deposit that he made actually with OUR money anyways? I don't know why I feel compelled to ask the forum about this issue, as it seems very cut and dry to me, but he is a longtime 2+2 member and perhaps will take to heart the opinions of other well-respected members. Thank you for your time.

Shane

Just to reiterate, he withdrew $900 of ours without permission and is claiming that his deposit (well under 900) is HIS. That, and the next 500, should be ours.

The person offering stake in this thread is claiming that with hard work and minimal poker knowledge someone with his help will be playing $35/180s and $55fo MTTs within 2-4 months. I have no doubt that the staker is a solid player (seeing his graph) but I wonder if anyone can confirm that such a progress rate is truely realistically possible.

i had express permission and discussions with staker3. as all 4 were trying not to have funds locked on merge