WTFFFFFF. I'll snap sell to another backer tell em to send me a PM.

MF6,

Maybe I would have been able to assess your unique situation better if you hadn't included pages of unnecessary info. Anyway, it seemed to me (and you've admitted) that you purposely tanked to get out of your contract, which is a pretty ***** thing to do.

Nate it wasn't about ample opportunity to send the HH. There was plenty of time that's not being disputed. Answer to everyone about whether or not you denied me playing MTTs prior to this problem surfacing and also answer to the fact that I sent you 3 HH at the beginning of the deal. You have still continued to avoid answering both of those points on the record in any thread or skype log. Wonder why?

As far as the convo on the repayment plan went it was never agreed to. We got off topic in the middle of it when I explained about my bank and there was never anything where I alluded to being ok with it. We spoke of it and about how it "could" work. I broached the subject of a repayment plan with the idea of seeing what he was thinking and if it would be beneficial to bite the bullet. Obviously after he tried to rape me instead of offering a buyout % I was never on board for anything. Not that I ever agreed to a buyout before that either though.

Do you not remember I said I was not ok agreeing to anything until I got my deal set up for moving forward? Because I did. I never have planned on paying you because I don't owe you but there was no reason we couldn't just transfer the makeup to a new backer because that would alleviate the problem. You didn't want it because you wanted to ruin me. That's been your goal throughout this whole thing and you know it. I never wanted you to not get money I just told you it wasn't going to come from me because I didn't even have it online anymore.

Go speak with him for two days and see how sane you are after bro. And like I said had never done anything against the contract until he did. He has yet to publicly admit this but it's true. I wouldn't have abstained from sending the HH if it wasn't needed to force the stake to end. Which is proven by the fact he already received them prior in the stake.

lol at this thread.

All this "do you remember what I said and what you said" bull**** is ridiculous. It's quite irrelevant as to who broke what part of the arrangement first. Fact is, BigNate probably had the unspecified right to suggest you stop playing MTTs for a period of time while you're downswinging in games that you should be "crushing". Sure, him asking you to cut them out for a period of time I'm sure is partially to help balance out the financial value (or lack there of at this point) of your stake, but more importantly, he's probably looking out for you as well. You're a horse, he doesn't make $ if you don't make $, so while you continue downswing in lol 90 mans (yea I know I know, you run worse than a deaf cripple), it's in his interest to help you manage your swings whatever ways possible. If that means asking you to cut out some of the higher variance games in your stake that you're allowed to mix in at a small volume, so be it. Not to mention, BigNate probably asked you for hand histories AS AN ATTEMPT to assist you in plugging any possible leaks. You're so ****ing egotistical that for whatever reason you think you are impeccable in MTTSNGs and don't require any assistance. Well, at least show him proof that what you're doing is correct. And worst case, he'll see, agree, and confirm you're playing fine, reload you, and so the stake continues.

The issue at hand at this point isn't even who broke what parts of your agreement. Clearly at this point, you guys do not want to continue this business relationship (which makes obvious sense as the two personalities/egos you guys have are ridiculous to making many arrangements work optimally, and I said optimally, not specifically profitably). What's left to discuss now is simply what you two think is fair financially to mutually part this arrangement. And this is something the two of you should be able to work towards without the help of everyone else here in MP. You guys will have no problem finding a reasonable solution if you can both put your egos aside and try to analyze facts and none of the he said she said nonsense.

Honestly, I don't care if you think BigNate broke the arrangement first by asking you to pause on playing higher variance MTTs when you currently can't even beat the 90s (I know, again, you're the best, you're just also the unluckiest). You clearly have been proven above that you've violated the agreement, and most likely should owe the full amount of the makeup. But we both know, you've already pretty much negated that option, so what's probably most feasible for you two financially is to split costs or whatever you guys think is fair around that middle ground. To be honest, if I were in BigNate's shoes I'd be happy to see 10 cents transferred to me given the way you handle yourself on the forums and even on the tables (remember the hand in your other thread where you tell your opponent to die of aids because he played his hand probably incorrectly and sucked out? yea you're a ****ing ****** asking players to improve, good job decreasing your bottom line as well as others). And in case you forgot the hand, well here it is:

But hey, prove me wrong MF6 and settle this financially in a way both parties can be satisfied

And I haven't talked to SS-TP yet,, but I'll get in touch with him when my time permits.

Good luck to the both of you sorting through this plague. I'm pretty much done wasting anymore time with this thread.

By the way, you can learn a few things from botboy141. I see you have been reading up on his PG&C thread. He's been in my stable for a few months now and clearly is utilizing what resources are around him to improve and crush the games he plays. Doubt he's just running well over multiple thousands of games. Why would I know this? Because he sends hand histories to me and other people in my group for productive discussion.

Edit: Posting his graph (I'm assuming it's his) is pretty irrelevant and unnecessary for this thread WEC.

Well you are asking for opinions from people in the backing industry. Thought I would throw my two cents in since you were so kind to introduce yourself to me on the tables the other day.

I am a horse. If I sign a contract with a backer, and violate a term of that contract, or there is stipulation in the contract that indicates make up must be re-imbursed to my backer if I leave the stake while in make-up (due to my fault or my backer), the answer is simple. Pay it the **** back.

While I'm sure most you already know, MF6 is a real class act, upstanding member of the poker community, controls his tilt, has a wonderfully positive mindset about the game, and absolute crushes.

<HELLMUTH COMPLEX>

Hope this brings you all some laughs, quotes from MF6 when he introduced his wonderful self to me on the FT of a $26 90 on 3/24/11, btw, maybe you could have used the few dollars you made in this 90 to pay back your debt? Just a thought.

My afterthoughts, are in red :-).


All I can really say man, is that you are full of class. I wish you the best with ever finding another backer (Nate - Hollar if ya need help with that website, I think it could be a lot of fun).

Azn again you're not following things. I was allowed to play MTTs prior but took the personal choice of not playing them. Largely this was due to a lack of time and some other responsibilities. Seriously your implied sarcasm is a little too thick. My record is well known and your insinuations about my play are a) not needed and b) petty. If you don't like me (understandable) put up some money and challenge me and you can shut me up. I have called out people for ages and they never follow through. It's like you think because you see me type in caps lock and swearing at people for playing like imbeciles that I'm tilting 24/7 or something. So since I'm such a hot head why don't you put me in my place? You seem like the kid in high school who always got picked on. Take your free punch and then run away right? You've always had a hard on for me and my threads; why? You don't like someone so you feel you have to voice it?

As far as BigNate I messaged him today and we are trying to work some things out. It will get taken care of I am not worried about it. I yell at people in chat to release the tension. I'm sure you don't care but usually as I type this stuff I'm laughing hysterically and it makes the game fun. Why be the same as everyone else? I'm ultra competitive and don't care what people think. If telling someone to die of aids (all in deficiency syndrome fyi) is the worst thing you've seen me say at the tables you haven't seen anything yet.

Or the fact he works very hard on his own has a lot to do with that. Studies sngwhiz and constantly works on balancing his ranges. I do the same thing sir. And he is a good player. Probably top 75 in the games. You won't find me doubting him. He also has a lot of drive to improve. And is that a brag to sending hh to people? Good for you! Seriously your ignorance is just nuts. Whos graph was posted?

Oh and PS he is running exceptionally well in the small sample I've seen in the 26s with him. He has also made several errors. I am willing to bet he will fix them but your insinuation you had anything to do with his success is hilarious. He is a hard worker and that is why he is having success. Must suck though to only make like 8/hr. McDonalds pays that much these days and you actually get a tax return

Lol @ all of this. Take your foot out of your mouth and stick it back up your ass where it belongs.

I didn't know you were sitting in on my coaching sessions, sweats, ghosts, rails, and discussion that I get from Azn on a daily basis. Impressive you can draw false conclusions out of thin air.

And in terms of running exceptionally well in the small sample you've seen of me in the $26's, what does that mean exactly, you're pissed that iso'd you with KJ and won the flip? Seriously dude get the **** over yourself.

Re: the bolded portion of the quote, does this mean you are a lazy slacker?

In all honesty though, I wouldn't be anywhere near to where I am if it wasn't for Azn and Tinga.

First of all I would love everyones opinions in the backing industry. At the same time though you're not really qualified to give an experienced rendition of how these things go. Your statements are not valid as you don't understand how makeup works after stakes end. You have no experience with this so please don't feel the need to share your opinion. You do have experience on making 8/hr so if I want to notch down two tax brackets I will come talk to you!

Seriously you think I put in that little volume to play for my living? I'm smart and invest my money and that allows me to do several things at once. I don't play poker 14 hours a day 30 days a month because I believe in balance. I also have another career. I don't let tilt build up inside me I call it how I see it speak my mind and have fun with it.

Also you have a few things wrong. I never claimed to be a class act and am actually quite a **** at the tables. Deal with it. Get over it. Maybe you should look up the definition of debt sir. What's your biggest score kid? What's the most money you've ever made in a year? Are you jealous because I have it easy? Dislike me because I speak my mind? Hate that I know more/am better than you?

Put up or shut up little bitch. Have your backer stake you in a prop vs me. I'd love to drop down to the 3s and 6s to show you how it's really done.
What's your lifetime roi are you even over 50% because if not I should probably be offering you odds lol

Blake pretty much already responded to this post. You're pretty cute implying he has run pretty well over a small sample. Let's take a look at samples between the two of you:

2011 Results on FTP:

Botboy141 3,300 $1.89 $6 37% $6,253 - N/A FullTilt Year2011 x
Epiphany86 814 -$0.98 $16 -3% -$796 - N/A FullTilt Year2011

I see. His sample is small. How does yours compare?

Ok then, maybe you played more before 2011. Let's go ahead and analyze lifetime results in 90 mans on FTP:

Botboy141 3,431 $1.91 $6 37% $6,568 - N/A FullTilt E90-90 x
Epiphany86 3,176 $1.57 $15 12% $4,972 - N/A FullTilt E90-90 x

Blake has played more games than you lifetime in the 90s, has an overall ABI smaller than yours, and is beating the 90s for 33% higher of a return than you. LIFETIME.

Please tell me how he is running good over a small sample. Is your sample small too? You're just so unlucky

Perhaps my analysis is inaccurate with all those other FTP accounts you have? Please share your results on those accounts too.

Pretty fkn hilarious that you make fun of anyone's hourly. And fwiw, Blake's deal under me is better than the one you're currently violating. He even chops profits and is allowed to play a schedule of MTTs!

I wasn't kidding by the way. If you actually have money to degen and choose not to pay your debts back to BigNate first, we can work out some sort of prop bet as long as you actually escrow your portion of the money. Balls in your court tough guy.

Wow, you clearly know my life inside and out. I understand perfectly how make up works after a stake is terminated, ask any backer anywhere, oh and it's not that difficult to figure out how it works when it's written in a contract. Your backer is under no obligation to sell your make up at a discount. Your make up is your make up, if he is willing to sell it at a discount it's because he doesn't believe you are good for the whole sum which you clearly are not. Oh and I haven't made $8 an hour since I was 14...

I'm glad you have fun berating people within your own delusional mind while playing a game. It's all in good fun and doesn't bother me a bit.

Oh but you're not only a dick at the tables, you are one everywhere clearly.

debt
   /dɛt/ Show Spelled[det] Show IPA
–noun
1. something that is owed or that one is bound to pay to or perform for another: a debt of $50.
2. a liability or obligation to pay or render something: My debt to her for advice is not to be discharged easily.
3. the condition of being under such an obligation: His gambling losses put him deeply in debt.

Yup seems like debt was the right word...Biggest score was ~$5000 in cheapy buy-in live event, unlike you, I don't have any desire to post the biggest score in history just so I can pay it back to my backer to whom I'm indebted.

Most money I've made in a year was $131,744 is what I filed on my income taxes in 2009.

Yes I am jealous that you have lost money over the last 3 months playing a game that a monkey with half a brain can beat, you have me dead to rights there. You definitely know more and are better than me, I mean, you know me so well !

So let me get this straight. Your loaded, have assloads of money, but would rather trash your reputation within the poker community than pay back the money that you clearly owe your backer based on a contract you agreed to? Wow, and I thought you were a douche on the tables...

Lifetime ROI, no clue, I never knew what I was doing in online poker until about 2 months ago when I got hooked up with Azn and asked him to teach me ****. 58% over a small sample in $3 90s, 40% over a small sample in $6 90s, 28% over a small sample in $13 90s. Less than 200 games lifetime at $26s... What type of prop you thinking? Told you to PM me about it when you first challenged me after I busted your ass out of that $26 and you never did. Given the circumstances though, I must insist on an escrow cause your word aint worth half a **** to me or anybody else in this community as far as I can tell.

I will accept a western union fwiw.

Regardless of all the trash-talk, if MF6 takes care of these two problems he deserves props for standing up and taking care of these like a responsible adult

I'd say he deserves props if he took care of them in private instead of the need for a public forum because he failed to take care of them in the first place. I'd say he deserves to retain his MP privileges if he handles them appropriately now.

But yeah def would be nice to see the backers made whole and wipe away any concern from everyone's mind.

It's all in good fun

A lot of drama ITT.

I was just generalizing what you posted in your thread sir. And apparently you can't compliment the few players remaining who are actually competent? Would you like me to find more creative words to describe you because assuredly you know I'm very good at doing just that. Just so we can clear it up 40% is not 50% however much you rationalize it to yourself. Ok?

As far as if I'm a slacker absolutely not. I'm just not quite as willing to play as low as you are. Unfortunately the 26s don't fill as quickly as they did in the past and it's pretty difficult to get more than 500 of these in per month

Man you just NEVER read things fully. I said in the sample I've seen of him. That means in my games. How can I judge how he is playing in things I'm not? Hmm so I'm 12% in 12s and 26s with half of my sample being downswings. What is he in them? Come back to me when you not only go on 1 but go on 2 downers of 2k or more in these in that short of a time frame. Poker is a cruel bitch but it's alright because everything always comes full circle. That's how it's always been and that's how it always will be. It's awesome to kick people when they're down though. I am coming out of a downer right now but you'll be seeing that little line going on a 5k swing very similar to the one at the very beginning of my graph in the next few weeks. And yes my sample is very small. I'm still not sure I will play these long term because I can only reach about 1/4 of my mtt roi in these games. I do enjoy consistently skull****ing all you hudbots on the bubble all day long though. You just can't hang. His deal is not better than mine that's pretty much guaranteed. One thing about Nate is that he was extremely generous with the deal we signed once he stopped trying to lie to me about what was "industry standard".

Why is it hilarious I make fun of his hourly? He could make roughly $14-$16/hr adjusting his play slightly and going on his own instead of playing for you and making $8/hr. As far as a prop it's not degening when you're the favorite. I don't owe Nate anything. The makeup (note I didn't say debt) will get taken care of. Set some sort of terms and I will tell you if I am ok with them. I'd prefer to do this in the 12s and 26s but if you bring up an enticing prop I will do it in a heartbeat.

This thread its starting to look pointless and ridiculous thanks to OP attitude toward everything, i think its gonna be very hard to find an understanding with a person as close minded as u..u have been posting ur opinion, answering to every 2+2er comment and contradicting yourself over and over, this isnt the attitude of someone willing to work on a diplomatic and fair solution for both parties.

Then stop berating him here, or on skype, figure out the buyout and pay it in a quick and timely manner. He should also be charging you an interest on the opportunity cost of him not having his $ right this second if you don't continue the stake with him. Make up is debt if you end the stake with a buyout, and that debt should be paid back periodically, the sooner the better. He may not ask for interest on top, but you should consider it with all the other funds you apparently have.

You suggest botboy should play on his own and make a higher hourly, yet you're backed and putting yourself in the same situation (albeit I don't know the specifics of your deal with BigNate except for what's been posted ITT). Maybe you should just play on your own with all that dough you claim you have invested in other ventures.

If you want to set something up with me personally, this is what I will offer. Taking it back to it's purest form for egos (I don't really have one but clearly you feel the need to defend yours), we can play $0.50/$1 NLHE HU cash, X amount of hands to be determined later. Escrow $3K give or take. I absolutely will not play you if we both don't escrow, because I don't trust you one bit with the antics you've pulled off up until now, though I doubt you'll agree to these terms anyway since it seems you make it a goal to disagree on everything unless it's your way 100%.

If you want, I can stop posting in this thread about the personal beef we have apparently created. Figure your **** out with Nate ASAP, agree to something realistic, post it publicly here, and honor it. I'm tired of arguing with your delusional self. It's not like we'll get anywhere, because apparently I know nothing and you know everything.

You're actually wrong..again. A backer has two options. He can drop a horse or continue to put him in the games. The player can also leave the stake by buying out the makeup (usually done at a fraction of the actual number; the smaller the number the higher the % paid back). I never left and the buyout was pushed on me with no other option. It was discussed, but never agreed to. Your hourly this month is 16/hr correct? That equals 8 after you pay azn. You play a pretty good sample of tourneys this month and last why are you making so little?

Oh no you see that's not how it works. Theoretically I don't even need to buy into a tournament to win it.

So let's see earlier you are quoted by yourself saying that 20-25% is pretty much the peak to be made in the games I play and now it's any monkey with half a brain? Hmm you're starting to sound like Nate! Make up your mind yo. I told you variance will come. You keep making fun of other people for going through it and watch what comes your way. Karma is a bitch.

Not loaded. I invest wisely and save. You watch and see what my rep will be when this is done. I know what I'm doing thanks for the concern though homie.

I'd say you should spend less time attempting to answer for the whole community and more time improving because I've seen <15 hands of yours and you still maintain several flaws. You're acting like you're Phil Ivey in here, who the **** do you think you are lmao?

For the prop I'd prefer to restrict it to the 12s/26s but if you have to play the other ones as well we could work something out. I won't be able to do anything until after dbl guar. week ends though.

So will there be some kind of actual progress?