prolly not

I just want to make sure there's no misunderstanding MF6 - you have no Marketplace privileges on site with your laundry list of issues. Typically you'd already have been gone.

I allowed this thread not to give you a soapbox but so that could work something out. If that's not possible than we're going to have to move on, you aren't entitled to your personal thread in the middle of Staking. You can start a blog about the injustice and all of that.

I have 2 questions and I'd like simple answers:

1) Do you intend to do anything to resolve the issues with Nate?
2) What is the status of the FTP audits?

OP asked me to post in this thread

I cant contribute much, only that I have no real clue whether or not op scammed me bc he wouldn't let me do an audit.

I dont really know what else to say...

I would hope so. He did message me on Skype. Which was turning into another long drawn out conversation. He wants the post to be deleted so he can find another backer to buy out the make up....

I don't have an issue with the make up being bought out I just think hell freezes over before this guy finds another backer. If the thread gets moved/deleted (Which I don't think is going to happen no matter what we say?) is what if he can't find another backer ? I would need some sort of stipulation of the thread being returned or a condensed thread or something so we don't have to go through this again. Or a verbal/written commitment from him that after so many days/weeks he agrees to pay the make up off in full.

I didn't read 90% of what he posted. I've read tens of hours of Skype log and I have a good idea what it prolly says.

I do think somehow he really honestly believes he did nothing wrong or thinks this is the correct approach to this situation. Or that he's getting screwed over. I don't think he stole any money intentionally as in off the top of the roll. However I do think intentionally violating contract and not intending on agreeing is using my funds in a fraudulent way. Which I don't think is any better than stealing off the top.

I know this isn't the responsibility of 2+2 or any other of the members to help settle this matter. I also know it prolly hasn't been fun for any of you. I appreciate all your help. Hopefully he does the right thing.

What I need to happen is either the MU be paid in full or we set up some sort of scheduled payments. Anything open ended where there's no due date isn't going to work. I need the agreement in writing signed and dated with details on when and how much I can expect to be paid. I'm not picky on how you format this just as long as it gets done. I think that's the only fair way for this to get settled.

Ok, so just to interject myself here:

BigNate, you want the MU paid in full. If it is, are you willing to drop the idea of starting a website to slam MF?

MF, you claim it isnt about the money. Since everyone has told you you violated the contract, are you willing to pay the MU in exchange for Nate not starting the website, and to retain MP privileges?

Tbh, this thread doesnt make either of you look good. The quicker this is ended, the better for everyone involved.

People like you screw it up for people trying to get staked, imo you should be banned on anything related to poker, or either send people's cash back. Im getting staked aswell i had to accept the terms. Why is it so hard for people to keep up with that? Money makes people do crazy things but you have to consider is screwing someone over for cash really worth it? If I do that to my stakers I cant sleep and i will feel bad rest of my life honestly, These guys tried to help you build something up.. Man up pay it back and move on without stakes and forum membership.

Well I thought he was never getting staked again after the last thread so you never know

Just out of interest Nate, did read that thread before taking him on?

Ok so my ROI is 40% not 50% but miraculously my $/game is still higher than yours, and seeing as how I mix stakes which allows me to 14 table, while you on the other hand are stuck 6 tabling, that clearly makes my $/hr in 90's higher than yours does it not? Oh but wait you are downswinging, that explains it all, cause I definitely have not run bad at all this month, oh no wait, yes I have, I just don't use it as the primary excuse as to why my hourly is so low.

My stats of $13-26 90's with three downswings of over 1k.



Oh really? Looks like your MTT ROI is a bit less than your 90 man ROI...just my two cents...


My backing arrangement is not a 50/50 profit split. Oh and similar to yourself, I have money coming in from various other investments. And it's hilarious that you make fun of my hourly, because with you only playing $13-52 90's I can pretty much guarantee that you are never more than 8 tabling. And let's see, you make $1.57 a game 8 tabling with an average game duration of 65 minutes (the standard in 90's), for ease I'll call it 60 minutes, means you are making $1.57*8 = $12.56 per hour PRE Profit split with your backer. Looks lower than mine but hey, what do I know, you're the guy that knows everything.

Because I tried to be like you and only play the higher level buy-in games which simply do not load fast enough. That combined with playing short session damaged my hourly greatly, as I stated in my PG&C thread.

This made me seriously LOL.

Thanks. I know all about variance, the difference is I put in enough volume to overcome about it instead of sitting around bitching about how I run worse than anyone else on the planet.

Just a guy that's crushing the games that you seem to be running so badly in.

Name it. My one concern is that I don't want to escrow for 3 months while I wait for you to get enough volume in. If you want to do a prop of $6-26 games, i'd say let's do it in the month of April, 800 games minimum combined between the two stakes, most profit wins the bet.

There already has been. And there will continue to be. And for as long as that is going on this thread needs to stay open. Nate and I spoke on skype yesterday for about 30 minutes. He had to go or we could have gotten more figured out in that time.

There will be no buyout. Let's just get that clear. It's not even possible for it to be done. Lol you are delusional if you even think for a second that he has the right to tack interest on to makeup he wants me to buy out (not happening) while taking away the option to play. NOT HOW IT WORKS. You're right makeup is a debt if the stake is ended with a buyout. But that is not what happened. That was what he wanted. But you can have him dig through skype for hours and hours and you will never once find a place where I agree to any buyout or buyout terms. End of story on that. A buyout is not an option.

It's not the same at all. I have money coming in from poker separate from being backed. I only took on a backer so as to put in more volume. Funny that I've been playing the same stakes as on my deal with him since he dropped me. Hmm I wonder how that could be...?

You don't have an ego? So then you're just jealous of me or something? Because you are the biggest troll I've ever had at any time. You follow my threads around and even in my last backing ad you posted that chat log like what a week after the thread was closed? You're misunderstanding competitiveness for an ego. I have zero interest in playing you low limit cash games where the rake will eat us alive. If there were a way and time to do so I would play you for 24 hours straight HU but I really don't feel the need to waste a significant amount of money playing .50/1 lining FTP's pockets with rake money. I have no problems with an escrow but this challenge is garbage. Not interested in the least. I thought you'd be willing to crossbook action in the 90s since you state that I am so bad in them. I know you're just trying to stir the pot and know you have zero idea of my actual potential or profitability in them or anything else for that matter.

I didn't ask you to post in this thread. I PM"d you asking if you still wanted an audit to prove that our situation wasn't what some of these people have twisted it to. You know why I didn't before and the only reason things are different now is because all of this bs with BigNate. The information I was trying to protect back then has no importance compared to what doing the audit would accomplish now in clearing my name in regards to 1/2 of what these people have been claiming about me.

Nate while you may feel that it's similar to stealing money off the top it's not. The ONLY way you will ever see money from this is if the makeup is bought by another party or you drop me outright (which kind of already happened). I stated that I would play back to even for you several times and you didn't want any of that. So those are your options. I can say even if I were to ship 30k this week in one of my mtts it would not change my stance or the potential outcome of our deal. I feel strongly about this and upon speaking with several of my friends that back and/or are backed you have no ground to stand upon. If you refuse to put me back into the games until we get back to zero then your options are very limited. That is not just my opinion but that of others as well.

You don't "think" I stole any money off the top? I have already proven to you that's not true and the reason the money got sent back when it did was because you claimed I was going to steal it. Like I said it was strange it was as if you wanted it to get stolen. If there is a way to delete all correspondence/threads/etc and have an ability to bring them back if a suitable conclusion is not met I am fully on board with that. Nate you were backer number 7. 4/7 of those have made significant money from me. One was b/e one we lost a small amount and one there was significant makeup. Then there was our deal. Getting a backer is not a problem.

If you're not reading anything I posted you should probably stop posting. That has been my beef throughout this is that people are asking the same questions over and over again. You'll notice my involvement in this thread has gone up over the past few days and largely this is due to the fact the more I answer of peoples false claims the higher chance eventually they will actually comprehend what I'm saying.

What everyone hasn't focused on is BigNates role in this. Yes I admitted I broke the contract. But also so did he. I wasn't the first one out of us to do so either. I was in full compliance with everything except putting in the volume he wanted (which was due to some life issues so technically I didn't break the contract on that). Also he admitted the games weren't registering at the rate they were when we signed the deal.

Nate can start a website if he really wants but I told him that he will be dealing with lawyers if/when that ever comes to fruition. When I last got into it on P5s several people decided to go that route and even went as far to use my photos without consent and posted them on several different escort ads across the country. I've been down this road before. They didn't enjoy the outcome of their ideas very much. I'd be willing to guess Nate wouldn't either. Under no circumstances will Nate be getting the makeup bought out by ME. I have explained I am ok with him getting the money if he wants to sell it to someone else or wants to allow me to get back to zero for him and then leave.

Lmao that's what you don't get. As a player being backed you have rights as well. You don't "have to" accept anything. And makeup is not debt. Maybe you're missing the point that MANY other parties have said in this thread that makeup only becomes a debt when a buy-out is AGREED upon. Which never happened.

I think you are the only one that believes this. Make up is debt. It must either be satisfied by playing until you are back to even, or it must be bought out. I believe you are the only one in the backing community that would think it is not debt until a buyout is agreed upon.

You don't want to play for him, he doesn't want you to play for him, which makes your make up debt that must now be bought out. Whether you buy it out or a new backer is irrelevant, it must be bought out. Also, regardless of who winds up making the buy out, it is your responsibility to ensure that it is paid in full (or at a discount if agreed upon by both parties).

You read my definition of debt earlier. A debt is something that must be repaid either in cash or good/services. Either you service the debt by playing (which is not an option) or you pay the debt. Seems pretty cut and dry.

big nate, i think that it's pretty silly to drop someone and expect them to pay back the makeup, especially when you are staking them for such small stakes. i would be shocked if MF6's net worth could even cover the makeup.

MF6 is obviously a clown, so dropping him is the right play, but don't go trying to squeeze blood out of stones, i'm sure you can find a better use of your time.

I don't grind these for an hourly wage and you do. So please stop comparing things that are nowhere near the same.



You realize a 1k downswing is not even a significant (or normal $ amount) of downswings in these right? So nice of you to prove these things for me.





One of these does not look like the other. Also notice nearly half the games played but 3x the variance. Hmmmmmm. My point stands.




It's actually over 80% over a very significant sample. Which is why I was explaining to you that 20% playing 90 mans is not **** compared to what used to be attainable. If you want to know how much I have personally made on my own account then subtract a 50k downer from my results (backed). Also since you're new I don't blame you but SS is not the most accurate tracking service for MTTs and they didn't even start tracking until about 1/3 of my mtt sample was already completed. If you'd like to get into other scores I am responsible for another 150k comes into play. Step out of the sandbox sir.



Pretty sure I only recently started grinding these and have never been able to grind them to the level I have wanted to. Also pretty sure I don't even track hourly rate because I make enough in other endeavors within poker that it is absolutely unimportant. And me playing 52 90 mans? I think I've played like 3. Those NEVER fill. And your assertion about multi tabling is wrong (usually play 6-8 but have played 14-16 when mixing games allowed to) although usually I prefer to play less games at a much higher roi so that I can own hudbots like yourself. Some of us have a little bit more dignity and talent than to play $3 and $6 games. Yes high rois are possible but I prefer to keep my sanity and play a game more closely resembling actual poker than develop bad habits playing with people that don't even have a basic understanding of the game.



Right, so then stop bashing my volume and sample. Also you would be well suited to stop worrying about your hourly and focus on improving. Poker is a fluid game and your roi and hourly will never ever be the same over a significant amount of time.



Why? Jealousy is a bitch I know.



I'm sorry I can only take this with a grain of salt. You don't even know about variance yet. You just admitted your biggest swing so far is 1k. Go do some research you thought that was normal until Cejeh came in your thread and dropped some real knowledge on your head. If you play the 12s and 26s regularly you will go on multiple stretches like I have. The only reason I am bitching is because mine pretty much came back to back. Such is life. Still a 12% roi with 2 massive downers I'd say my results speak for themselves. But back when the 50k downer happened for that backer I decided that wasn't enough. Ever since then I have recorded every single hand of importance for every day I have played. People always think they run worse than they do but I wanted proof that nobody (or very few people) have gone through the variance in this game that I have.

I'd prefer a bet where there are multiple parts to the bet. Roi, volume, and total profit. This way you can't just put in infinite volume and win a total profit bet. It's extremely obvious you can put in big volume more so than I can. Escrowing is not a problem and I'd be looking for a one month bet not three.

DUDE! READ. ****, you and AZN must be hitting the same pipe! I said I would PREFER to play for him back to zero. He is the only one not willing to do that. THAT is why there is a problem here and that's why this was brought to the forums. I'm willing to play back to zero and he is not. He only wants to force a buy-out despite the other option not being on the table. That's not how backing works. And I will never agree to that.

Meh, both parties come off as kind of shady, at least based on what I've read here, particularly the chat logs (though admittedly those can always be altered to suit the needs of the person posting them). That said, MF6 needs to provide the audits and pay what he owes, if anything, and this unpleasant episode will quickly die.

I thought this was kind of lulzworthy

Does this mean that as a FL taxpayer I staked BigNate? I DEMAND AN AUDIT POSTHASTE!

He doesn't want you to play back to zero because you've broken the contract, suck at poker, are delusional, and probably doesn't respect his money.

I think we've seen enough. I asked a second question about those audits which you blew off again, only to argue about people's graphs and other nonsense. A neverending drama thread isn't necessary to handle this seeing as though you two (and SS-TP) have Skype.

It seems like you're suggesting that we have to appease you and keep you around, so that maybe someday you'll actually handle your business. That shouldn't be necessary and it's generally not how we do things (and when we have--see SilentNoise--it hasn't worked out very well). You don't need an audience to do the right thing.

Effective immediately you are done in the Marketplace which is way beyond standard for someone with a quarter of your baggage. I'm not even sure why I'm not banning you but in any case don't post here, don't PM me to argue about it.

Just for the record:

BigNate offered to accept $1,000 of the $2,000 in this dispute to consider it resolved. Provided that happened, I agreed to remove this thread, and note in the neg feedback thread (Big Nate's post) that the issue is resolved, and may clean up some of the posts but BN's and SS-TPs posts will not be removed. I also offered to note SS-TP's post if he receives his audit and is okay with it. Made clear there will be no MPlace activity from MF6 here ever no matter what. BN asked for the agreement in writing. Thought this might work out for a moment, at least it looked that way from my PMs. Nate and several mods were attached and there was some hope of progress.

Then, MF6 insists on Marketplace approval as a condition of repayment, and a lot more removed from feedback --which he knows full well we'd never agree to.

This has been his MO pretty much throughout. Rather than him simply quitting a stake, he made it impossible to for his backers to continue. In this way, he could point the finger at someone else. This whole passive-aggressive bit extended to this last effort also, see now he can blame me as being the reason no agreement was ever reached with BigNate.

BigNate's behavior has come up under some discussion (understandably) and I think he made some poor choices for also. Given what went down, I think taking $1,000 or the $2,000 in dispute wasn't an unreasonable compromise at all. MF6 on the other hand may as well have demanded 2+2 convert to Islam for him to repay money. Of course this doesn't even address SS-TP who (despite large discrepancies) has still never received any kind of audit or accounting from Fitterer's stake package.

So, since we can't meet MF6's demands to reinstate him into the Marketplace and sweep his entire history under he rug, he's permabanned. I will update the neg feeback thread myself.