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Still time to buy gold imo. Still time to buy gold imo.

10-05-2010 , 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tolbiny
pshhhhhhhhhhhh


1330 is so 4 hours and 10$ ago
This rally is scaring the **** out of me. Everyone's piling onto one side of the trade in eager anticipation of QE2, i.e. Central Bank Wars: Bernanke Strikes Back. As a result, I'm considering taking some profits on some of my CEF and trying to come back in on a dip. But then again with as irrational as this market has been acting, trying to time this may very well be useless. I may just keep hanging on for the ride.
10-06-2010 , 12:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuvnorJimmy
I buy physical gold and unallocated silver. You save tax on silver in Britain. An unallocated er silvaccount is fine with the big gold and silver suppliers. I am not sure about gold though. There are stories of plenty of sales where the physical might/does not exist. Always take your gold in bullion.
so a lot of the arguments for taking gold in physical wouldn't apply to silver? like possibly the silver not being there or being forced to be paid in dollars rather than the actual metal? seems like if someone has large amounts of silver that there would be similar risks in terms of having access to it that there would be for gold
10-06-2010 , 02:27 AM
If and when the market crashes what will go down more the S&P 500 or Gold?
10-06-2010 , 07:55 AM
We crossed $1350 overnight. $1346 atm.
10-06-2010 , 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom.fries
If and when the market crashes what will go down more the S&P 500 or Gold?
10-06-2010 , 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom.fries
If and when the market crashes what will go down more the S&P 500 or Gold?
I know a few investors, all of whom look at me like ??? and almost chuckle when I talk about gold. Do investors really view the gold stuff as a conspiracy? I see investors continuing to invest and live their lives ignoring all of this "market WILL crash blah blah" stuff.

So why is the Gold/Economic collapse idea ignored by so many if it is really really going to happen?
10-06-2010 , 05:28 PM
because you learn the wrong stuff at college and later you will not be confronted with the truth.

In the last weeks I saw 2 documentaries about the dangers of buying (physical) gold on the public broadcasting channels in Germany ARD and ZDF. All with really phony arguments like the central banks might sell their stock and flood the market and you cannot store gold well, you might be tricked by not getting real gold etc.

I think there are signs
10-06-2010 , 05:28 PM
People are starting to realize, thats why the price of gold is going up
10-06-2010 , 07:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BurningSquirrel
because you learn the wrong stuff at college and later you will not be confronted with the truth.

In the last weeks I saw 2 documentaries about the dangers of buying (physical) gold on the public broadcasting channels in Germany ARD and ZDF. All with really phony arguments like the central banks might sell their stock and flood the market and you cannot store gold well, you might be tricked by not getting real gold etc.

I think there are signs
Exactly.

Isn't it obvious that there are groups who benefit from the status quo, and thus want to perpetuate it?

Its all about MOPE, or management of perspective economics.

Gold is but one place where the disinformation campaign works in overdrive.
10-06-2010 , 08:02 PM
This isn't just college investors I'm talking about. Peter Schiff is considered pretty extreme amongst investors. So many professional investors who's livelihood and income depend on the market are completely ignoring gold/market collapse option. What are they doing wrong/right in their analysis of the future that makes them buy Ford instead of gold?

Also disinformation works both ways right? There is incentive for gold selling firms to convince everybody market is gonna blow up and worth ounces will be worth 5k?
10-06-2010 , 08:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassmaster2008
What are they doing wrong/right in their analysis of the future that makes them buy Ford instead of gold?
The old wave was ford and other big blue chips the new wave is precious metals (there are others). Where is the momentum for ford or sprint, we can all see the momentum of the gold market. There is no reason to hold ford beyond an antiquated train wreck of a market paradigm.




Quote:
Also disinformation works both ways right? There is incentive for gold selling firms to convince everybody market is gonna blow up and worth ounces will be worth 5k?
The more yen, dollars and euros they create, the more yen, dollars and euros will be allocated to each ounce of gold. SIMPLE. This is not an infinite process but will serve as a guide to those that don't understand what is going on in the gold market.
10-06-2010 , 11:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassmaster2008
Also disinformation works both ways right? There is incentive for gold selling firms to convince everybody market is gonna blow up and worth ounces will be worth 5k?
maybe. i don't claim to know whether gold is in a bubble, undervalued, or what going forward. but my favorite is frequenting bogleheads.org that's usually pretty level-headed and accepts EMH and current valuations being best guess at correct value. nearly everyone there is certain gold is a bubble, proof being that it's not a yield asset (k, fair enough, but they love t-bills that yield like 0.5% real for their risk-diversifying value, when it's like ok what's gold then?) and they see a million gold commercials on tv. seems to me >80% of those commercials are trying to get average joe to get rid of his gold at **** rates, not accumulate.
10-07-2010 , 01:51 AM
The commercials are basically your generic used car salesmen trying to get people to sell ridiculously low or buy ridiculously high. The sellers who advertise could basically just buy in bulk from Tulving and make money on the markup, not to mention the rapefest on numis, "storage fees", and every other scam they can think of. It's not some National Association of Realtors type of advertising campaign to try to influence the American psyche.

Even if gold is partially a bubble (define a bubble as something that goes up because it has gone up in the past and attracted enough people chasing those returns who will buy in at higher and higher prices, until they don't anymore, and it stops appreciating.. and then nobody wants it anymore and it goes to ****), and that's rather unknowable from my perspective, it has a clear function as a way to mitigate currency devaluation (either as your currency relative to another currency or as all currencies relative to real goods). If you have my view that this is a significant part of the reason for the influx into gold (fiat uncertainty and devaluation), then it doesn't really matter if it's partially a classic bubble, and partially a bubble inflated by fiat uncertainty/devaluation. If you know what's going to decrease the demand for gold (and you don't see it as imminent, which I certainly don't) then you can watch for those and pick a decent time to start reducing exposure. I have no doubt that it's going to burp a few times, especially as measured in one currency, but as long as the world printing, I don't see how it has a negative trajectory in real value anytime soon.
10-07-2010 , 04:43 AM
goooooooooooold
10-07-2010 , 07:30 AM
Unreal, we're north of $1360 now. "Currency Wars" and "Competitive Devaluation" is now actually getting a fair amount of play in the mainstream press.

The warning I'd offer is that, while I have every expectation that QE2 will go full ******, I think the market is pricing this in as well at the moment. So if QE2 doesn't appear "bold" enough, we could see equities and gold take a nasty short term dive in the neighborhood of $100+/oz. I still believe long term that the moon is the limit for gold, but that said in the short term it wouldn't hurt to buy some GLD puts or to put a stop loss in on some of the gold-backed funds you might own.
10-07-2010 , 10:04 AM
A re-post of an older but still excellent discussion by John Law aka Mencius Moldbug , with a link to a recent elaboration on this by FOFOA.

Kinda gets to some of these ideas about stocks, gold, bubbles, fundamental analysis, etc.

Its long but rather thought provoking (that's why I keep re-posting excerpts form it like this excerpt)

Quote:
An illustration

Let's start by comparing two hypothetical cases.

In case A, a million Americans decide right now to move all their savings into Dell stock, buying at the current market price no matter how high.

In case B, a million Americans decide right now to move all their savings into gold, buying at the current market price no matter how high.

In both cases, let's say each of these test investors has an average of $10,000 in savings. So we are moving $10 billion.

Neither gold nor Dell can instantly absorb $10 billion without considerable short-term increases in price. Because it would require us to predict precisely how other investors would react, we have no way to precisely compute the effects. But we can describe them in general terms.

In case A, the conventional wisdom is right. Our test investors should expect to lose a lot of money.

This is because Dell has a stable equilibrium price which is set by the market's estimate of the future earning power (price-to-earnings ratio) of this fine corporation. Because it is not the result of any new information about Dell's business, the short-term surge should not affect this long-term equilibrium.

Since there will almost certainly be a short-term price spike, many of the test investors will be buying at prices well above the stable equilibrium. In fact, the more investors we add to the test, the more each one should expect to lose. Doh!

But there is no way to apply this analysis to case B.

Precious metals have no price-to-earnings ratio. With gold formally demonetized (that is, with no formal link between gold prices and currencies such as the dollar, as there was until 1971), there is no stable way to price it. There is no obvious equilibrium to which the gold price must converge.

It is true that gold has industrial uses. It can be priced on the basis of industrial supply and demand. The conventional wisdom is that it is.

Thus we can say that gold, for example, is overvalued if gold miners are selling more gold than jewelry makers and other industrial users want to buy. At present (with gold near $700), they probably are. So if you follow this reasoning, the right investing decision is not to buy gold, but to sell it short.

But this just assumes that there is no investment demand for gold. On the basis of this assumption, it shows that gold is a bad investment. Therefore there should be no demand for it.

Therefore, when our case B investors put $10 billion into gold, that money has to be used to bid gold away from its current owners, many of whom already believe that the price of gold in dollars should be much higher than it is now.

So the result of case B is that the gold price will, as in case A, rise immediately. But it has no reason to fall back.

In fact, quite the opposite. Because the gold price is largely determined by investment demand, any increase in price is evidence of increasing investment demand. Mining production, noninvestment jewelry demand, and industrial use are relatively stable. Investment demand is a consequence of investors' opinion about the future price of gold - which is, as we've just noted, largely determined by investment demand.

This is not a circularity. It is a feedback loop. Austrian economists might call it a Misesian regression spiral.

Suppose you believe this. It's all well and good. But what does it really prove? Couldn't gold still be just another bubble?

And why should gold be a better investment because it has no earnings to price it by? This makes zero sense.

To answer these sensible objections, we need a few more tools.

Nash equilibrium analysis

The Nash equilibrium is one of the simplest and oldest concepts in game theory. (Nash is John Nash of A Beautiful Mind fame.)

In game theory jargon, a "game" is any activity in which players can win or lose - such as, of course, financial markets. And a "strategy" is just the player's process for making decisions.

A strategy for any game is a "Nash equilibrium" if, when every player in the game follows the same strategy, no player can get better results by switching to a different strategy.

If you think about it for a moment, it should be fairly obvious that any market will tend to stabilize at a Nash equilibrium.

For example, pricing stocks and bonds by their expected future return (the standard Wall Street strategy of value investing) is a Nash equilibrium. No market is infallible, and it's possible that one can make money by intentionally mispricing securities. But this is only possible because other players make mistakes.

(Nash equilibrium analysis of financial markets is not some great new idea. It is standard economics. The only reason you are reading a Nash equilibrium analysis of the interaction between precious metals and official currency now on the Web, not 30 years ago in the New York Times, is that the Times gets its economics from real economists, not random bloggers, and the profession of economics today is deeply tied to the institutions that manage the global economy. Real economists do not, as a rule, spend time thinking up clever new reasons why the global financial system will inevitably collapse. They're too busy trying to prevent it from doing so.)

What Nash equilibrium analysis tells us is that the "case B" approach is interesting, but inadequate. To look for Nash equilibria in the precious metals markets, we need to look at strategies which everyone in the economy can follow.

Let's focus for a moment on everyone's favorite, gold. One obvious strategy - let's call it strategy G - is to treat only gold as savings, and to value any other good either in terms of its direct personal value to you, or how much gold it is worth.

For example, if you followed strategy G, you would not think of the dollar as worthless. You would think of it as worth 45 milligrams, because that's how much gold you can trade one for.

What would happen if everyone in the world woke up tomorrow morning, got a cup of coffee, and decided to follow strategy G?

They would probably notice that at 45mg per dollar, the broad US money supply M3, at about $10 trillion, is worth about 450,000 metric tons of gold; that all the gold mined in human history is about 150,000 tons; and that official US gold reserves are 8136 tons.

They would therefore conclude that, if everyone else is following strategy G, it will be difficult for everyone to obtain 45mg of gold in exchange for each dollar they own.

Fortunately, there is no need to follow the experiment further. Of course it's not realistic that everyone in the world would switch to strategy G on the same day.

The important question is just whether strategy G is stable. In other words, is it a realistic possibility that everyone in the world could price all their savings in gold? Is strategy G in fact a Nash equilibrium?

There are no market forces that would tend to destabilize it. Or are there? Actually, it turns out that we've skipped a step in our little analysis.

Levitating collectibles

The problem is that the exact same analysis works just as well for any standardized and widely available asset.

For example, let's try it with condoms. Our benchmark of all value will be the standard white latex condom. We can have a "strategy C" in which everyone measures the worth of all their assets in terms of the number of condoms they exchange for. Cash payments will be made in secure electronic claims to allocated boxes of condoms, held in high-security condom vaults in the condom district of Zurich. And so on.

This is obviously ridiculous. But why? Why does the same analysis seem to make sense for gold, but no sense for condoms?

It's because we've ignored one factor: new production.

Let's step back for a moment and look at why people "invest" in gold in the first place. Obviously they expect its price to go up - in other words, they are speculating. But as we've seen, in the absence of investment the gold price would be determined only by industrial supply and demand, a fairly stable market. So why does the investment get started in the first place? Does it just somehow generate itself?

What's happening is that the word "investment" is concealing two separate motivations for buying gold.

One is speculation - a word that has negative associations in English, but is really just the normal entrepreneurial process that stabilizes any market by pushing it toward equilibrium.

The other is saving. We can define saving as the intertemporal transfer of wealth. A person saves when she owns valuable goods now, but wishes to enjoy their value later.

The saver has to decide what good to hold for whatever time she is saving across. Of course, the duration of saving may be, and generally is, unknown.

And of course, every saver has no choice but to be a speculator. The saver always wants to maximize her savings' value, as defined by the goods she actually intends to consume when she uses the savings. For example, if our saver is an American retiree living in Argentina, and intends to spend her savings on local products, her strategy will be to maximize the number of Argentine pesos she can trade her savings for.

Here are five points to understand about saving.

One is that since people will always want to shift value across time, there will always be saving. The level of pure entrepreneurial speculation in the world can vary arbitrarily. But saving is a human absolute.

Two is that savers need not be concerned at all with the direct personal utility of a medium of saving. Our example saver has little use for a big hunk of gold. Her plan is to exchange it for tango lessons and huge, delicious steaks.

Three is that from the saver's perspective, there is no artificial line between "money" and "non-money." Anything she can buy now and sell later can be used as a medium of saving. She may have to make two trades to spend her savings - for example, if our saver's medium of saving is a house, she has to trade the house for pesos, then the pesos for goods. If she saves directly in pesos, she only has to make one trade. And clearly trading costs, as in the case of a house, may be nontrivial. But she just factors this into her model of investment performance. There is no categorical distinction.

Four is that if any asset happens to work well as a medium of saving, it may attract a flow of savings that will distort the "natural" market valuation of that asset.

Five is that since there will always be saving, there will always be at least one asset whose price it distorts.

Let's see what happens when that asset is condoms. Suppose everyone in the world does adopt strategy C, just as in our earlier example they adopted strategy G. What will happen?

Just as we predicted with gold, there will be massive condom buying. Since condom manufacturers were not expecting their product to be used as a store of wealth, demand will vastly exceed supply. The price of condoms will skyrocket.

Strategy C looks like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Condoms will indeed become a costly and prized asset. And the first savers whose condom trades executed will see the purchasing power of their condom portfolios soar. This is a true condom boom.

Let's call this effect - the increase in price of a good because of its use as a medium of saving - "levitation."

Sadly, condom levitation is unsustainable. The price surge will stimulate manufacturers to action. Since there is no condom cartel - anyone can open a factory and start making condoms - the manufacturers have no hope of maintaining the levitated condom price. They will produce as many condoms as they can, as fast as possible, to cash in on the levitation premium.

Levitation, in other words, triggers inventory growth. Let's call the inventory growth of a levitated good "debasement." In a free condom market, debasement will counteract levitation completely. It will return the price of a condom to its cost of production (including risk-adjusted capital cost, aka profit). In the long run, there is no reason why anyone who wants condoms cannot have as many as he or she wants at production cost.

Of course, condom holders will realize quickly that their condoms are being debased. They will pull their savings out, probably well before debasement returns the price of a condom to the cost of producing one.

We can call the decrease in price of an asset due to the flow of savings out of it "delevitation." In our example, debasement causes delevitation, but it is not the only possible cause - savings can move between assets for any number of reasons. If savers sell their condoms to buy Google stock, the effect on the condom price is exactly the same.

Because condom debasement is inevitable, and will inevitably trigger delevitation, savers have a strong incentive to abandon strategy C. This means it is not a Nash equilibrium.

The whole sad story will end in a condom glut and a condom bust. The episode will be remembered as a condom bubble. In fact, if we replace condoms with tulips, this exact sequence of events happened in Holland in 1637.

So why won't it happen with gold?

The obvious difference is that gold is an element. Absent significant transmutation or extraterrestrial trade, the number of gold atoms on Earth is fixed. All humans can do is move them around for our own convenience - in other words, collect them. So we can call gold a "collectible."

Because it cannot be produced, the price of a collectible is arbitrary. It is just a consequence of the prices that people who want to own it assign to it. Obviously, the collectible will end up in the hands of those who value it highest.

Since the global bullion inventory is 150,000 tons, and 2500 tons are mined every year, it is easy to do a little division and calculate a current "debasement rate" of 1.66% for gold.

But this is wrong. Gold mining is not debasement in the same sense as condom production, which does not deplete any fixed supply of potential condoms. In fact, it only takes a mild idealization of reality to eliminate gold mining entirely.

Gold is mined from specific deposits, whose extent and extraction cost geologists can estimate in advance. In financial terms, gold "in the ground" can be modeled as a call option. Ownership of X ounces of unmined gold which will cost $Y per ounce to extract is equivalent to a right to buy X ounces of bullion at $Y per ounce.

Since this ownership right can be bought and sold, just as the ownership of bullion can, why bother to actually dig the gold up? In theory, it is just as valuable sitting where it is.

In the form of stock in mining companies which own the extraction rights, unmined gold competes with bullion for savings. Because a rising gold price makes previously uneconomic deposits profitable to mine - like options becoming "in the money" - the total value of all gold on earth does increase at a faster rate than the gold price. But the effect is not extreme. 2006 USGS figures show 30,000 tons of global gold reserves. This number would certainly increase with a much higher gold price - USGS reports 90,000 tons of currently uneconomic "reserve base" - but the gold inventory increase would be nowhere near proportional to the increase in price.

In practice, modeling unmined gold as options is too simple. Gold discovery and mining is a complex and political business. The important point is that rises in the gold price, even dramatic rises, propagate freely into the price of unmined gold and do not generate substantial surges of new gold. For example, the price of gold has more than doubled since 2001, but world gold production peaked in that year.

The result is that gold can still levitate stably. Even if new savings flow into gold stops entirely, debasement will be mild. The cyclic response typical of noncollectible commodities such as sugar (or condoms), or theoretical collectibles whose sources are not in practice scarce (such as aluminum) is unlikely.

Of course, if savings flow out of gold for their own reasons, it can trigger a self-reinforcing panic. Delevitation is not to be confused with debasement. Again, it is important to remember that debasement is not the only cause of delevitation.

What we have still not explained is why gold, which is clearly already levitated, should spontaneously tend to levitate more, rather than either staying in the same place or delevitating. Just because gold can levitate doesn't mean it will.

Money in the real world

In case it's not obvious, what we've just done is to put together a logical explanation of money, using gold as an example, and using only made-up terms like "collectible" and "levitation" to avoid the trap of defining money in terms of itself.

Now let's apply this theory to the money we use today - dollars, euros, and so on.

Today's official money is an "artificial collectible." Money production is limited by legal violence, not natural rarity. If in our condom example, the condom market was patrolled by a global condom mafia which got medieval with any unauthorized condom producers, it would resemble the market for official currency. No one can print Icelandic kronor in the Ukraine, Australian dollars in Pakistan, or Mexican pesos in Algeria.

It may be distasteful to hardcore libertarians, but this method of controlling the money supply is effective. There is minimal unlicensed production of new money - also known as counterfeiting.

It should also be clear from our discussion of gold that there is nothing, in principle, wrong with artificial paper money. The whole point of money is that its "real value" is irrelevant. In principle, an artificial money supply can be much more stable than a naturally restricted resource such as gold.

In practice, unfortunately, it has not worked out that way.

Artificial money is a political product. Its problems are political problems. It does no one any good to separate economic theory from political reality.

Governments have always had a bad habit of debasing their own monetary systems. Historically, every monetary system in which money creation was a state prerogative has seen debasement. Of course, no one in government is unaware that debasement causes problems, or that it does not create any real value. But it often trades off short-term solutions for long-term problems. The result is an addictive cycle that's hard to escape.

Most governments have figured out that it's a bad idea to just print new money and spend it. Adding new money directly to the government budget spreads it widely across the economy and drives rapid increases in consumer prices. Since government always rests on popular consent, all governments (democratic or not) are concerned with their own popularity. High consumer prices are rarely popular.

There is an English word that used to mean "debasement," whose meaning somehow changed, during a generally unpleasant period in history, to mean "increase in consumer prices," and has since come to mean "increase in consumer prices as measured, through a process whose opacity makes chocolate look transparent, by a nonpartisan agency whose objectivity is above any conceivable question, so of course we won't waste our time questioning it." The word begins with "i" and ends with "n." Because of its interesting political history, I prefer to avoid it.

It should be clear that what determines the value of money, for a completely artificial collectible with no industrial utility, is the levitation rate: the ratio of savings demand to monetary inventory. Increasing the monetary inventory has a predictable effect on this calculation. Consumer price increases are a symptom; debasement is the problem.

Debasement is always objectively equivalent to taxation. There is no objective difference between confiscating 10% of existing dollar inventory and giving it to X, and printing 11% of existing dollar inventory and giving it to X. The only subjective difference is the inertial psychological attachment to today's dollar prices, and this can easily be reset by renaming and redenominating the currency. Redenomination is generally used to remove embarrassing zeroes - for example, Turkey recently replaced each million old lira with one new lira - but there is no obstacle in principle to a 10% redenomination.

The advantage of debasement over confiscation is entirely in the public relations department. Debasement is the closest thing to the philosopher's stone of government, an invisible tax. In the 20th century, governments made impressive progress toward this old dream. It is no accident that their size and power grew so dramatically as well. If we imagine John F. Kennedy having to raise taxes to fund the space program, or George W. Bush doing the same to occupy Iraq, we imagine a different world.

The immediate political problem with debasement is that it shows up in rising consumer prices, as whoever has received the new money spends it. If we think of all markets as auction markets, like EBay, it should be clear how this happens.

Debasement and investment

We haven't even seen the most pernicious effect of debasement.

Debasement violates the whole point of money: storage of value. As such, it gives savers an incentive to find other assets to store their savings in.

In other words, debasement drives real investment. In a debasing monetary system, savers recognize that holding money is a loser. They look for other assets to buy.

The consensus among Americans today is that monetary savings instruments like passbook accounts, money market funds, or CDs are lame. The real returns are in stocks and housing. [Written in 2006]

When we debasement-adjust for M3, we see the reasons for this. Real non-monetary assets like stocks and housing are the only investments that have a chance of preserving wealth. Purely monetary savings are just losing value.

The financial and real estate industries, of course, love this. But that doesn't mean it's good for the rest of us.

The problem is that stocks and housing are more like condoms than they are like gold. When official currency is not a good store of store value, savings look for another outlet. Stocks and housing become slightly monetized. But the free market, though it cannot create new official currency or new gold, can create new stocks and new housing.

The result is a wave of bubbles with an unfortunate resemblance to our condom example. When stocks are extremely overvalued, as they were in 2000, one sign is a wave of dubious IPOs. When housing is overvalued, we see a rash of new condos. All this is just our old friend, debasement.

This debasement pressure answers one question we asked earlier: why should gold tend to levitate, rather than delevitate? Why is the feedback loop biased in the upward direction?

The answer is just that the same force is acting on gold as on stocks and housing. The market is searching for a new money. It will tend to increase the price of any asset that can store savings.

The difference between precious metals and stocks or housing is just our original thesis. Stocks and housing do not succeed as money. Holding all savings as stocks or housing is not a Nash equilibrium strategy. Holding savings as precious metals, as we've seen, is.

Presumably the market will eventually discover this. In fact, it brings us to our most interesting question: why hasn't it already? Why are precious metals still considered an unusual, fringe investment?

The politics of money

What I'm essentially claiming is that there's no such thing as a gold bubble.

This assertion may surprise people who remember 1980. But markets do not, in general, think. Most investors, even pros who control large pools of money, have a very weak understanding of economics. The version of economics taught in universities has been heavily influenced by political developments over the last century. And your average financial journalist understands finance about the way a cat understands astrophysics.

The result is that historically, the market has had no particular way to distinguish a managed delevitation from an inevitable bubble. Because of Volcker's victory, and the defeat of millions of investors who bet on a dollar collapse, the financial world spent the next twenty years assuming that there was some kind of fundamental cap on the gold price, despite the lack of any logical chain of reasoning that would predict any such thing.

Even now, there is no shortage of pro-gold writers who predict gold at $1000, $2000 or $3000 an ounce, as though they had some formula, like the P/E ratio for stocks, that computed a stable equilibrium at this level. Of course, they do not. They are only expressing their intuitive feeling that gold is very, very cheap right now, and tempering it with the desire to be taken seriously.

Gold's main weapon is one we alluded to already: a sudden, self-reinforcing, and complete collapse of the dollar. In a nutshell, the problem with the dollar is that it's brittle. When Volcker did his thing, the US was a net creditor nation with a balance-of-payments surplus. Its financial system was relatively small and stable. And it had much more control over the economic policies of its trading partners - the political relationship between the US and China is very different from the old US/Japanese tension.

For the Fed, what is really frightening is not a high gold price, but a rapid increase in the gold price. Momentum in gold is the logical precursor to a self-sustaining gold panic. If the US federal government was a perfectly executed and utterly malevolent conspiracy to dominate the world, let's face it. The world wouldn't stand a chance. In reality, it's neither. So a lot of things happen in the world that Washington doesn't want to see happen, and that it could easily prevent. Anticipating surprises is not its strength.
Why the Global Financial System is About to Collapse, as edited in
The Shoeshine Boy
10-07-2010 , 12:31 PM
Just pulled trigger on 100oz of silver on today's dip
Obv get ready for a plunge
Your welcome
10-07-2010 , 05:30 PM
Drop silver, drop drop drop so I can buy LARGE!!
10-08-2010 , 11:51 AM
For a first time buyer with ~500$ to spend on silver, are local coin shops the way to go?
10-08-2010 , 11:56 AM
It depends. Does your state tax bullion purchases?
10-08-2010 , 01:48 PM
Quote:
Iowa No sales tax on any amount of bullion
internet says no
10-08-2010 , 02:51 PM
yes, definitely check local shops.

and at that amount, as long as it's cash, i doubt even if there WERE tax laws in iowa you'd be paying any.

i started daydreaming about what you're gonna get for your $500, and i realized you'd only get one tube of sae's basically.

wow...crazy times.
10-08-2010 , 03:36 PM
ty Wiper good to know. My net worth is a joke and it's probably a mistake for me to be buying at all, mostly I'm doing it to sort of put my money where my mouth is and get my parents into some.

Should I be looking to buy American Eagles above anything else, or does it matter?
10-08-2010 , 07:17 PM
any official state minted coins are good except for maybe Somalia, but actually it does not really matter

I think that Maple Leafs have the best quality of all.
10-09-2010 , 12:47 AM
You'll pay a premium for coins over bullion, but you should also be able to sell them at a premium over bullion.

      
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