i know this is a question without an answer but i really feel apprehensive about whats going on and the future.

we go from one bubble to another bubble and now the world genius's are creating another bubble........but i can understand this new bubble being created (bail out package) because if we dont throw some grease on the machine now, there isnt going to be a machine to run.

other than a war, what does it really take to truly fix things instead of going from one bubble to the next? if we are delaying an inevitable catastrophy (i dont see how this couldnt be the case) then why doesnt everyone get together and truly fix the problem?

obviously, i'm not an economist nor am i even well versed when it comes to basic finances but i feel i have good logic and instinct. i did not foresee the tech crash, yet a week after the first serious drop in the market ("tremendous buying oppurtunity".....as the dumbass street genius's liked to say) i said to myself, "this thing going on here was like a big money party. everyone threw in and it was fun but the party is over.......and its not coming back". i imediately called my genius broker and said i wanted out.......knowing full well he was going to try and keep me in.......and yes, he did try to keep me in like i expected and i kindly declined but he didnt take no for an answer. i then got nasty with him and told him to sell right f'ing now or i'm going to come down there and knock him out. f'ing used car salesman.

so anyway, my gut here is telling me the same thing again but i dont think its coming soon..........but what else is supposed to happen if the problem truly isnt fixed? is it magically going to disappear?

if everyone in the world truly got together to fix the problem, what would it involve? everyone make a sacrifice and spend less, save money?

what would truly fix things and why arent we doing it?.....regardless of the sacrifices.

also, this question of national debt. do we eventually have to pay that off? i dont get it. it seems like its been there for a long time and it keeps growing. can it grow forever or does it eventually have to be paid off or paid down?

i just dont get this bull****. cant just keep throwing a bandaid on top of another bandaid. thats why i dont give anyone real credit for being "smart". yes, that includes me too but after this morning, now i find out that greenspan is a dummy too.

my gut says that if the problems truly arent fixed, calamity is inevitable and i dont think people truly realize it. well, i think they feel it in their gut possibly but they would rather stick their head in the sand for now.

what would truly fix the problem?

get rid of the federal reserve.

1. Are we in trouble.

1A. Yes. We are in a recession and they're doing everything they can to get us into a depression and keep us there. They are not allowing liquidation and are feeding dead horses, with money created out of thin air -> inflation.


2. If we dont throw some grease on the machine now, there isnt going to be a machine to run.

2A. Wrong. They are throwing sand in the machine. The market and reality are trying to tell us something. It's sending all kinds of messages that there are fundamental problems. These effects are treated as causes, and they're trying to stiffle the effects. All the while completely ignoring the causes; moreover, they are trying to stiffle the effects with the very things that are the causes of the problems.


3. Other than a war, what does it really take to truly fix things instead of going from one bubble to the next?

3A. A war doesn't solve any problems. It adds tremendously to the problems.

3A. To fix the booms and busts is simple: change the causes of the booms and busts. The cause of the busts is the boom and reality. The cause of the boom is money pumping by the fed and laws forcing bad investments. The cause of money pumping by the fed is the monopoly the fed has. It's actions are predictable, obvious, and inevitable, provided the circumstances and incentives. The only way to solve this is to end the monopoly. The same is true for the state laws forcing bad investments (-> end the state monopoly on taxation).


4. If everyone in the world truly got together to fix the problem, what would it involve?

4A. It would involve things like 100% gold-backed currency (or even a gold coin-standard). The thing is that many people are *trying* to get together and solve problems, but they are not allowed. If you start a new competing currency that competes with the state cartel, state agents will kill your dog, hold your family hostage and put you in jail for 25 years (where you will suffer numerous other things). So the state has made it clear that peacefully creating a reliable, hard currency is worse than all the violence I just described. The only way we are going to get to a better world is if people start understanding the backwardness of that situation.

ok, well thats over my head but it seems to me that the true fix inevitably involves "us".......the consumer.

it feels scary to me because maybe there is an inevitable balance in the world that has to be paid. we created a higher standard of living in america with a lot of sacrifice. much of it involved spilling blood too.......a lot of our own.

so now, americans have been living better than half the world for the last 50-60 years. not that we dont deserve it but some where along the line, the squirrel has to gather his nuts. i dont think we've been doing that in america for quite some time and the inevitable price has to be paid.

is an over throw of government out of the question? cant see it happening with the liberal mentality that seems to be dominating this country more and more by the day.......but i honestly believe that if things get bad enough to the point where the liberals cant get their morning cup of starbucks, even the most hardcore secular progressive will show up to the steps of the white house with a baseball bat.

does a depression benefit these coxsackers?

I think it's fair to say that I'm not a believer in AC. With that said, we're asking government to fix it's own unnecessary screw ups more or less. Not only that we're asking the same people in government that are accountable for the current situation to "fix" the problems. Doesn't give me a warm fuzzy either. About as simple as I can make it.

The elimination of government is simply not going to happen, but that doesn't mean that there is NOTHING that can be done to improve things. In times of crisis, people either move more toward freer markets (which improves things) or more toward socialism (which makes problems worse). Clearly in this crisis we are moving toward socialism (media has decided the cause was not enough government regulation (!!) and 'predatory lending', government meddling more in the economy with bailouts, democrats talking about stopping foreclosures and redistributing wealth, etc.)

What do you mean?

They benefit with the things that also cause the depression. Just like the military industrial complex doesn't benefit from killing directly, but it's just the inevitable result of the way they 'work'.

On a certain psychological level there are some things to say though about the suffering they create. But to understand this you have to look at their childhoods instead of the suits they wear.

seems to me that a new break through in something technological needs to materialize. something that opens doors to new jobs........not f'ing strip malls and slightly better than minimum wage jobs. something that can spawn a new and robust economy.

i just hope that if something like this happens, we arent going to face a new crop of "genius's" who neglect or abuse the money system.......but we will. why would it go away? nobody is being punished severly.

sorry, but i just dont see corruption and neglect coming to an end unless there is some sort of catastrophic upheavel in society. people have their own lives and as long as they have their jobs, t.v. and cars.......life goes on and the fat cats will continue with their abusive games.

i also dont see the damage that has been created, going away. some where along the line, we are going to pay.

is it possible that we can have this newly created debt...... and slowly pull out of it without our lives changing much?

is this realistically possible? honestly, are we basically delaying the inevitable?

No.

If you hurt you knee and went to two doctors, Doctor A said rest, ice and advil and you should be running and pain free again in a few weeks, maybe a month or two. doctor B said that surgery and rehab are necessary and it will be 6 months to a year before you start running again.

Doctor B is going to have a much harder time convincing you he is right over Doctor A, you WANT doctor A to be right and thats why politicians instinctively tell us Doctor A type news (especially in an election year) to not do so would be to hand their opposition a more popular position.

I was wondering this myself. How much of the increasingly liberal mentality is due to a pro-Democrat, pro big government sentiment or an anti-Republican, anti-Bush reaction? My view is that the masses change their beliefs and ways only when the going gets tough for them. The response to a god awful 8 years under the Bush Administration is to polarize away from Republicans and thus, lean towards Democrats. I'd imagine if and when liberals **** up the economy even more then you will see not a anti-liberal or a anti-conservative mentality, but a strong anti-government mentality especially if inflation really hits the fan. That's when we'll start to see some real change in this country hopefully.

Hopefully we'll be so lucky.

I don't think we're in trouble. I think the next boom will be so powerful not even Karl Marx himself could stop it. I agree that they are throwing sand in the machine right now though hopefully everyone will calm down and let this pass.

I don't know a lot about economics, but I believe you're right about the next boom. I think the next boom, and the next big technology will be alternative energy. We are already seeing a lot of this in Arizona. It's mostly solar energy here, of course. Lots of new companies popping up all the time.

Not to derail the topic all together, but the utility companies will subsidize part of the cost if you install solar panels on your house. What happens when this technology is so common that most houses have them? It seems as if the utility companies are subsidizing a product that will eventually hurt their business, or am I missing a big piece of the puzzle?

I'm not sure what boom people are waiting for. We have already invented a magic box that increases productivity 100X within the last 30 years.

lol no.

Seems pretty obvious that what i wrote was correct. Make a real argument if you want.

People around the globe know that the United States has the largest economy. It is the major partner for every country which doesn't make tourism their only main produce. The Wall Street is defined as the heart of all global economies.

But what if this heart stops beating?

The Wall Street Stock Exchange rate plunged down to market lows 23.1% down from it's normal rate. The dollar is getting weaker than other currencies, the oil crude price is just $88.00 per barrel, and political battles destroy low-economies.

What's your opinion about this matter?

I agree. You don't see a major push towards liberalism necessarily (though this happens inevitably as a country's wealth increases) but rather anti-Republican or anti-neo-conservatism to be more precise.

With any luck, we'll see major distrust of the government. I think the seeds are already being sown.

For the record, this is currently false.

The box is mostly only helping us with paperwork right now. I think in the next boom that will change.

Huh? Never mind that some of the biggest companies in the world are based almost solely on computers (google, microsoft) but you don't think computers have increased productivity in the oil industry for example? I have no training in engineering and it would take 100 engineers from 1975 to do what I can do with just a laptop.

I am not saying that another boom is impossible, but what has happened from the mid 70s to now is pretty amazing already.

What do you guys think of the potential of the quadrillion dollar derivatives bubble.

http://www.siliconvalleywatcher.com/...ize_of_der.php
"Warren Buffett has said the derivatives neutron bomb has the potential to destroy the entire world economy, and is a "disaster waiting to happen." He has also referred to derivatives as Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD). Counting one dollar per second, it would take 32 million years to count to one Quadrillion. The numbers we are dealing with are absolutely astronomical and from the realms of super computing we have stepped into global economics. There is a sense of no sustainability and lack of longevity in the "Invisible One Quadrillion Dollar Equation" of the derivatives market especially with attendant Black Swan variables causing multiple implosions amongst financial institutions and counterparties! The only way out, albeit painful, is via discretionary case-by-case government intervention on an unprecedented scale."

I have to admit i don't know much about derivatives, though I'm trying to learn more about them.